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  #181  
Old 05.11.2014, 16:46
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Re: London vs Zurich

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I'm not saying online dating doesn't have it's place, but if you are single active, charismatic, confident and at least-half good looking, it is a waste of time in Switzerland.
That rules out most of the forum then.

Hence why the forum exists
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  #182  
Old 05.11.2014, 16:57
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Re: London vs Zurich

Both cities are great, but if you're thinking of socialising with people, going out, dating etc then definitely London - it has so much more to offer...
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  #183  
Old 05.11.2014, 20:19
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Hi Trevarus; go and take a look at the stats for Japanese - Foreigner marraines and then we'll talk. They pretty much mirror the Singapore - Foreigner stats. If you can't find them, I'm happy to post them here. Re Caucasian friends - you would be hard pressed to beat me on the international level I'm afraid. Caucasian could mean American, British, German, Maltese, South African, Russian, Bellorussian etc... I went to an international school I have lived all over the world and I have friends from all over. And I see the same patterns repeated. A woman marries into a man's culture. Hence you see many successful marriages between western men and non western women. Western society is a lot more free and less constrained. Both spouses having money also helps to equalize relationships. But you see far less of the opposite way round. Take a look at the divorce statistics from the Swiss Federal Office of Statistics on international marriages. (although I think the Singapore government has blocked this too). Go and have a look at ok cupid's survey on interracial dating too.
OfficeGirl, you often refer to statistics. We all know statistics is good to show some trend and probability. But dating and how people meet are beyond statistics. It's a human nature, way beyond calculation, and often can't be explained by all statistics and hypotheses. I think another poster have pointed this out. We plan and we have preferences, that's fine. But that doesn't mean we don't open ourselves to any possibility. And life has much more to offer
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  #184  
Old 05.11.2014, 20:26
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Re: London vs Zurich

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OfficeGirl, you often refer to statistics. We all know statistics is good to show some trend and probability. But dating and how people meet are beyond statistics. It's a human nature, way beyond calculation, and often can't be explained by all statistics and hypotheses. I think another poster have pointed this out. We plan and we have preferences, that's fine. But that doesn't mean we don't open ourselves to any possibility. And life has much more to offer
It's all about chemistry. If you try to stick to preconceived notions, you may very well miss it, and if you should never find it, it might be tragic.
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  #185  
Old 05.11.2014, 21:48
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Re: London vs Zurich

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So says a man who speaks a language in which this is a kind of bear:



These cute Waschbären/washing-bears/raccoons are now (actually since about 2005) also at home in Zürich along the Sihl-River
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  #186  
Old 05.11.2014, 22:16
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Re: London vs Zurich

London has the most amazing range Indian restaurants and Zurich is way behind in this case.. lol
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  #187  
Old 06.11.2014, 01:17
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Re: London vs Zurich

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London has the most amazing range Indian restaurants and Zurich is way behind in this case.. lol
In fact we're still catching up with the chinese restaurants. But once we do, eventually, we'll smash them
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  #188  
Old 06.11.2014, 03:05
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Re: London vs Zurich

@ FuriousRose - I agree with you in a western context or with non-westerners who have been brought up in or emigrated to the west (because unlike most Asian countries we allow foreigners to become one of us to a greater or lesser extent depending on the country) but not in Asia. I repeat - these are homogeneous societies with very particular and specific ideas about how old a woman should be when you marry, what you should look like (I've seen Chinese dating programs where a girl is rejected because her face is too "flat"), how she should behave, the need to be approved by extended families. I knew of a Singaporean couple where unusually the guy was Chinese and the girl was Indian.
Chinese don't like dark skin (no go) - both families flat out refused the couple despite both being born and bred in Singaore from wealthy families. He went to marry a girl from China who fit all the very specific requirements of Chinese beauty (which only Chinese or East Asians can adhere to). You don't know what racism is until you get to Asia.

Hence again another reason so many Asian women fall for western caucasian men - because we are a free tolerant open society to a lesser or greater extent depending on the country. The problem is that in a place like Singapore where there is a small expay community the situation is as described in the real Singapore and it makes things very difficult for Caucasian women.
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  #189  
Old 06.11.2014, 04:42
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Re: London vs Zurich

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The problem is that in a place like Singapore where there is a small expay community the situation is as described in the real Singapore and it makes things very difficult for Caucasian women.
You have to be joking about this one. The population here has over 40% foreigners! Show me a country with a bigger expat community... some 10% is Caucasian an since the vast majority of those are male are there quite some fish in the sea. Blaming your inability to find a partner on all those SPGs is an easy way out, isn't it?

Since you love statistics: http://population.sg/resources/popul.../#.VFrdrL7pZ94
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  #190  
Old 06.11.2014, 06:01
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Re: London vs Zurich

@Trevarus and who are those foreign expats - Asian expats not western expats mate. Western expats are about 1% of the population.
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  #191  
Old 06.11.2014, 09:04
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Re: London vs Zurich

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@ FuriousRose - I agree with you in a western context or with non-westerners who have been brought up in or emigrated to the west (because unlike most Asian countries we allow foreigners to become one of us to a greater or lesser extent depending on the country) but not in Asia. I repeat - these are homogeneous societies with very particular and specific ideas about how old a woman should be when you marry, what you should look like (I've seen Chinese dating programs where a girl is rejected because her face is too "flat"), how she should behave, the need to be approved by extended families. I knew of a Singaporean couple where unusually the guy was Chinese and the girl was Indian.
Chinese don't like dark skin (no go) - both families flat out refused the couple despite both being born and bred in Singaore from wealthy families. He went to marry a girl from China who fit all the very specific requirements of Chinese beauty (which only Chinese or East Asians can adhere to). You don't know what racism is until you get to Asia...
Uhmm i'm from Asia, and it's a huge continent, you know.... There some interracial marriages in my family and the elders are very open with these (considering that I'm coming from an ethnic/tribe with strict cultural rules similar to the Chinese). And this is not only between Western men and Asian women, but also the other way around. Some other posters here have pointed out and have even experienced interracial marriages for themselves. So it work out for some, you see! I know you had bad experience with your indian ex bf's family, and thus you have preference. But judging the Asian society based on that experience of yours and some rubbish dating programs as homogenous and racist culture doesn't do justice to the Asian culture and the people.
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  #192  
Old 06.11.2014, 09:29
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Re: London vs Zurich

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You have to be joking about this one. The population here has over 40% foreigners! Show me a country with a bigger expat community... some 10% is Caucasian an since the vast majority of those are male are there quite some fish in the sea. Blaming your inability to find a partner on all those SPGs is an easy way out, isn't it?

Since you love statistics: http://population.sg/resources/popul.../#.VFrdrL7pZ94
Treverus, you're living in a bubble. Singapore is set up, quite intentionally, as a global economic hub. That culture is designed for optimum performance. As much as you might feel the exoticism of being in a far away land, what you see there is not necessarily Asian culture as practised in its inherited form. That sub-culture you live in there is the same sub-culture you find in any pocket of internationalized communities. That is globalized McCulture. You'll find the same in pockets of Tokyo, Hong Kong, Russia, NYC, etc.

Understanding and acknowledging local cultural traits is not ignorance and intolerance. Denying it is ignorance and intolerance. Recognizing and accepting it is cultural awareness and tolerance. Clear yet?

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  #193  
Old 06.11.2014, 09:44
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Treverus, you're living in a bubble. Singapore is set up, quite intentionally, as a global economic hub. That culture is designed for optimum performance. As much as you might feel the exoticism of being in a far away land, what you see there is not necessarily Asian culture as practised in its inherited form. That sub-culture you live in there is the same sub-culture you find in any pocket of internationalized communities. That is globalized McCulture. You'll find the same in pockets of Tokyo, Hong Kong, Russia, NYC, etc.

Understanding and acknowledging local cultural traits is not ignorance and intolerance. Denying it is ignorance and tolerance. Recognizing and accepting it is cultural awareness and tolerance. Clear yet?
I am married to a Chinese as in "from Beijing" for many years. Yes, long before I moved to Singapore. No, she is not one of the poor farmer girls that try their luck in international marriages... and I find the stereotyping in this thread just as insulting as if I characterize every American as some Alabama hillbilly.

Honestly: I am very confident I know more about Asian culture than you ever will. Even in Singapore can you decide on your own if you do want to live in the expat bubble or go out and meet people and make experiences. I know English expats who spend their evenings in English pubs, send the kids to the English school and spend the weekends discussing at the British club why those bloody immigrants in the UK don't spend any effort to integrate... I can promise you that I am not that type of expat.

The OP so far only re-hashes the stereotypes spread and "celebrated" in Singaporean tabloids, not much else. Locals love to read about international marriages not working out - because there are indeed people who do not like them and love to think "I told you so"... just like any Daily Mail reader in the UK. Is there racism in Asia? Yes, tons of it. But it is in no way worse than in Europe or anywhere else - but in Europe will you only experience it when you happen to be non-European. I know because my wife and I lived for years in both and made the vice-versa experience.

The OPs bullshit about all those tolerant and open western men?! The majority of guys I met who did fall into the category of "got a mail-order bride" were usually far from emancipated modern men - they were the guys who buy women. There is simply so much wrong in this discussion that I do not even know where to start, but go on, tell me more about Asia...

Let's just conclude it with a classic:

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  #194  
Old 06.11.2014, 10:13
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Re: London vs Zurich

Look folks, cultures are cultures, and individuals are individuals. To understand the world better, you'll have to think of those as two separate attributes. When you have a bunch of objects of various size and colors, its quite inept to make statements like Blues are big, Reds are small, and Yellows are medium. You would have to be quite mentally and intellectually retarded to make such statements when it isn't true, which is what racism is.

There is nothing wrong in studying human cultures, picking out the admirable things about it, but also recognizing the horrible things about it. It is TOTALLY intellectually immature to say that a particular human culture is devoid of negative things. There are no perfect human cultures, because there are no perfect humans. Ignorance of this is not tolerance. Recognition of it and accepting it is tolerance.

But as for individuals, it is also intellectually immature and sometimes offensive to attribute everything about their grouping to them. They themselves may not even agree with it. If I decided that ALL people who wear purple shirts are passive aggressive, all it does is make me stupid, not those people. In fact, if you are serious about getting to know an individual, you really want to pay attention to what makes them different from their grouping. It is how they are differentiated from their grouping that makes them an individual. It is in the exceptional individuals where you will find your "special one", not in their groupings. But if you don't understand that, you might as well pick the first one who comes along from the grouping you like and move along with the herd.


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Honestly: I am very confident I know more about Asian culture than you ever will.
Knowing about a culture and living it out are two different things.

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  #195  
Old 06.11.2014, 11:05
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Re: London vs Zurich

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@Trevarus and who are those foreign expats - Asian expats not western expats mate. Western expats are about 1% of the population.
Even 1% of 5.6 million is a very big number especially for a city-state that is no more than 700 Sq Km. Statistically (since you seem to love them) 80 Western Expats per sq km which is 10% more than the population density of Europe (72 person per sq km) and 250% more than that of USA (34 person per sq km) WITHOUT discounting the Asian populace living in these entities!!!

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  #196  
Old 06.11.2014, 11:20
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Re: London vs Zurich

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I'm not saying online dating doesn't have it's place, but if you are single active, charismatic, confident and at least-half good looking, it is a waste of time in Switzerland.

(not sure why I got a groan for this)
well, i posted that because you said: 34 old girl.. your time is up.
so if you are out of a certain range of age as a man, it is not that
you can date younger girls because very little have a "daddy complex/syndrome". and these profiles are a good example.
also being active means what? i bet 100 CHF that when you ask
100 couples in ZH "where have you met?" max 10 would say "in a club or bar." 60 would say "introduced (at work, party, gym... etc) and the rest did it online. so if you have nobody really to go out with, you can be as active as eff... does not lead you anywhere.
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  #197  
Old 06.11.2014, 12:42
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Re: London vs Zurich

Again misunderstood. Who is talking about mail order brides here? As pointed out by Phos Singapore is a peculiar engineered place but it remains the case that the Chinese community follow a different standard of beauty hence the popularity of whitening creams. So whatever your income level the Chinese standard applies. However it remains the case that Asia as a whole is oppressive to women whether you're poor or rich;the difference is that if you're rich you're more likely to have options to quit the system. Hence why so many wealthy girls (eg at the Bank I work at) pursue Caucasians.

By the way Trevarus I'm not surprised that you're married to a well to do Chinese woman. That's the effect of Chinese government propaganda trying to dumb down smart women; reported in Hong Kong's main newspaper:-

http://m.scmp.com/lifestyle/books/ar...a-hong-fincher

In China's biggest cities, well-educated women in their 20s are turning down promotions at work or even quitting their jobs, fearing they might become too old or too successful to find a husband. Their insecurities are stoked by government campaigns accusing single women of being sexual degenerates with unrealistically high expectations of men.

Since then, state media has published scores of reports aimed at shaming "high-quality" women into marrying and having a child for the good of the nation. A 2011 Women's Federation column stated: "Many highly educated 'leftover women' are very progressive in their thinking and enjoy going to nightclubs to search for a one-night stand … It is only when they have lost their youth and are kicked out by the man, that they decide to look for a life partner. Therefore, most 'leftover women' do not deserve our sympathy."

The situation is no different in the rest of Asia albeit for different reasons:-

http://www.dw.de/violence-against-th...ing/a-17273095

So why do you think western men are so popular? Still convinced I'm ignorant and biased? I suspect you're still living in Exoticstan!!

================================================== ======

Last edited by 3Wishes; 08.11.2014 at 15:56. Reason: fixed spacing
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  #198  
Old 06.11.2014, 13:48
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Again misunderstood. Who is talking about mail order brides here? As pointed out by Phos Singapore is a peculiar engineered place but it remains the case that the Chinese community follow a different standard of beauty hence the popularity of whitening creams. So whatever your income level the Chinese standard applies. However it remains the case that Asia as a whole is oppressive to women whether you're poor or rich;the difference is that if you're rich you're more likely to have options to quit the system. Hence why so many wealthy girls (eg at the Bank I work at) pursue Caucasians.

By the way Trevarus I'm not surprised that you're married to a well to do Chinese woman. That's the effect of Chinese government propaganda trying to dumb down smart women; reported in Hong Kong's main newspaper:-

http://m.scmp.com/lifestyle/books/ar...a-hong-fincher

In China's biggest cities, well-educated women in their 20s are turning down promotions at work or even quitting their jobs, fearing they might become too old or too successful to find a husband. Their insecurities are stoked by government campaigns accusing single women of being sexual degenerates with unrealistically high expectations of men.

Since then, state media has published scores of reports aimed at shaming "high-quality" women into marrying and having a child for the good of the nation. A 2011 Women's Federation column stated: "Many highly educated 'leftover women' are very progressive in their thinking and enjoy going to nightclubs to search for a one-night stand … It is only when they have lost their youth and are kicked out by the man, that they decide to look for a life partner. Therefore, most 'leftover women' do not deserve our sympathy."

The situation is no different in the rest of Asia albeit for different reasons:-

http://www.dw.de/violence-against-th...ing/a-17273095

So why do you think western men are so popular? Still convinced I'm ignorant and biased? I suspect you're still living in Exoticstan!!

================================================== ======
What are you smoking? You seem to know more about Asia than the Asian themselves, eh?

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Old 06.11.2014, 14:39
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Re: London vs Zurich

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So why do you think western men are so popular? Still convinced I'm ignorant and biased? I suspect you're still living in Exoticstan!!
I don't think this is much more than the grass looking greener on the other side. I've seen wealthy asians make the jump to the west, thinking they will have their liberated freedoms, only to find out that in any part of the world, it has its ups and its downs. They lose all their domestic helpers, and find themselves having to cook, wash dishes, do the laundry, mop and clean their windows. They wonder where their liberation went to.

There are westerners who perceive China as the new gold rush, the land of opportunity. They go there ignorant of the local culture, only to find out that the locals don't really listen to them, say "Yes" when it is only because they can't say "No". The Product Manager asked for 11cm holes, but this is the third time they delivered it with 13cm holes. On top of that, it turns out their business partners are gaming them, and had never had the intention of signing over equity. Their major supplier happened to be a college colleague, and there is no way they will work with them without their chinese business partner. Bam!

The point is, there really is no place in this world where there is no adversity. In the whole scheme of things, it isn't really the obstacles that confront your circumstances that are your biggest challenge. The biggest challenge is how you, in whatever circumstance you are in, handle the obstacles in front of you.

If you are complaining where you are right now, I guarantee you that after a couple of years in Switzerland, you will be complaining about how the Swiss are beating you down. I don't want to get into the complaints I hear about Swiss and Europeans husbands yet. Just know that it isn't paradise by virtue of race either.
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Old 06.11.2014, 14:55
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Re: London vs Zurich

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By the way Trevarus I'm not surprised that you're married to a well to do Chinese woman. That's the effect of Chinese government propaganda trying to dumb down smart women;
I find this farcical to say the least. Are you trying to suggest that Trevarus's OH is a woman already 'dumbed down' by the Chinese Government. So much so that she made a 'dumb' choice of marrying Trevarus? Or are you suggesting that she is so smart that she outsmarted the vigorous Chinese propaganda of being 'dumbed down' and made the oh-so-smart choice of marrying Trevarus?

-----

By the way stats can be looked up in many ways. So if you are saying that X number of Asian women are getting married to Caucasian males then EXACTLY X number of Caucasian males are also getting married to Asian women. This brings a different perspective. It means those X males preferred Asian women over Caucasian females. In other words caucasian females weren't deemed attractive or suitable or both by these men. Now if the number X is significant when thinking and drawing conclusions about Asian women it is far more significant in drawing conclusions about the suitability of Caucasian females as partners simply because X/Y >> X/Z where Y and Z are sizes of populations of Caucasian males and Asian women respectively in Asia.

-----
I also tend to agree with @Switzerlanded that a 34 year old woman would have certain disadvantages in physically attracting a man (of any age) when compared to say a young girl of 24, given we keep the yardstick of such attraction constant... as an example, I think a person aged 24 (man or woman) will find it less necessary to mention that (s)he is physically beautiful despite her/his age:-)... I also hope 24 year old kids won't find the 'dating scene' in any city a significant reason to choose it over another.

-----
Finally about your experience with your ex Indian Bfs. Isn't it also likely they found you a self-centered person who wasn't prepared to go the extra yard to make it up with their respective families? I mean, to you, may be, they were bfs who you were ready to dump if you found something not to your liking, but for them you were THE ONE person they were ready to place in their life ALONG WITH their family. Think how painful it would have been for them when they found that, even with all the short comings of their family, their efforts to make the East meet West failed big time because you, perhaps, made no or little efforts in that direction.

All value systems are different from one another and elements like personal happiness, sex, family ties, wealth etc have different weights in different value systems.

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