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  #361  
Old 09.11.2014, 20:12
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Re: London vs Zurich

On dating, women pursuing, shyness and the allure of Asian women; a woman's game is quite simple and powerful. All a woman has to do is to hold eye contact for 3-4 seconds, smile warmly to let him know you are open to be approached, and that is all. If he is interested, he will approach. Simply keep it sublime, and test if you two are an intellectual match. Shyness and modesty will work for you beyond this point. Let the man think he's doing all the winning, but stay on top of the situation and lead it. Let the man think he's playing his game, but stay on course with what you want. I found Asian women to play a powerful game in this area.

I think for men, levels of attraction will be along these lines and values:

Physical attraction: She's got the body of a Ferrari, and I'd like to drive it. An opportunity for great sex.

Emotional attraction: She's sweet, warm, affective and makes me feel good. An opportunity for a friendship.

Intellectual attraction: She's smart, stimulating, challenging, a match, and would make a great partner I can respect. Marriage material.

Redeeming the physical and emotional attraction prematurely may diminish the intellectual attraction and chances of marriage. Although it is possible that a relationship could build along the three. But when a relationship is built solely on physical and/or emotional attraction, it is less likely to last as these are temporal and subjective, while intellectual is more objective and timeless.

As for other motives, like as housemaids or whatever perverse reasons, I wouldn't know what they look for. I suppose they would simply want someone dumb and manipulable, so make sure you show that you are not.

Last edited by Phos; 09.11.2014 at 20:49.
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  #362  
Old 09.11.2014, 21:19
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Bollocks, some people did sleep in their history class.
In every migration class, lecturers will tell you the reason for migration is the pull and the push factors, which among others involve economic reasons (and this also points to the fact that there are still developed and developing countries). Another, intertwining factor, is historical background of migration. A lot of influx of migrants from Africa and Asia coming to UK, for example, are those originating from former colonies/colonised countries. To put it blatantly, it's reasonable for them to migrate to UK or other European countries (including those that formerly colonised them). After all, the current wealth of European countries is partly derived from their colonial practices in the past
You claim that the main reasons for migration are not related to the fact that people want to escape an inferior culture but rather because they want to escape economic hardships. However, your argument is flawed for one main reason.

It doesnt concede the possibility that the inferior and, as Office girl puts it, rather racist, culture is one of the main reasons for these economic hardships.
Just think about it. If in the Middle East women had the legal right to participate in the economy as much as men, they women would be much more productive and would significantly increase economic growth. If Pakistan did not stone women for crimes ranging from adulatory to witchcraft, many women (with their whole families) would not just move to the UK. Now as I established how the culture can be a significant part in making a decision to leave a country, imagine what happens when they leave the country but the culture does not leave them ! They simply seed it in the new society.

About colonial rule, I also don`t think it is a valid reason for immigration. Surely, if one has already decided to emigrate, he would rather go to a place where the language and culture are familiar. But colonial rule should not be considered a factor to force the decision to emigrate in the first place. Just think about it. Singapore, Australia, and the USA were former British colonies; however, its not like there is a myriad of immigrants from these countries. And when people from there actually do immigrate to other western societies, they add value to them; in contrast, people from the Middle East and Africa try to impose the same culture they escaped from.

Have a look how Muslims protest in London against the country that gave them home. They are shouting - "Democracy go to hell", "freedom go to hell".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8DtwH5z_s0
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  #363  
Old 09.11.2014, 21:35
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Re: London vs Zurich

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It doesnt concede the possibility that the inferior and, as Office girl puts it, rather racist, culture is one of the main reasons for these economic hardships.
Just think about it. If in the Middle East women had the legal right to participate in the economy as much as men, they women would be much more productive and would significantly increase economic growth. If Pakistan did not stone women for crimes ranging from adulatory to witchcraft, many women (with their whole families) would not just move to the UK. Now as I established how the culture can be a significant part in making a decision to leave a country, imagine what happens when they leave the country but the culture does not leave them ! They simply seed it in the new society.
I think it is ignorant to attribute their economic hardships as an outcome of their race and culture. It does not take into account the history of plunder inflicted on them, their natural resources, and political meddling through the cold war.

It is hubris to think Europe and the US just happens to be blessed due to the race and culture of its people. It denies the source of the wealth it has accrued; stolen gold and natural resources it has received for practically nothing. But that game is over, and Europe is not as relevant to the rest of the world as it previously was, or thinks it is.
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  #364  
Old 09.11.2014, 21:42
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Re: London vs Zurich

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I think it is ignorant to attribute their economic hardships as an outcome of their race and culture. It does not take into account the history of plunder inflicted on them, their natural resources, and political meddling through the cold war.

It is hubris to think Europe and the US just happens to be blessed due to the race and culture of its people. It denies the source of the wealth it has accrued; stolen gold and natural resources it has received for practically nothing. But that game is over, and Europe is not as relevant to the rest of the world as it previously was, or thinks it is.
Japan and Switzerland are examples of countries with very limited natural resources but are doing just fine, to say the least. And many African countries have plenty of resources; its just that they are corrupt beyond imaginable and cannot divide these resources appropriately. I really believe that culture is crucial to economic growth and success. And when I mean culture, I mean culture; there is a profound difference between race and culture. Not liking a particular culture does not make one a racist.

And something very important. If liberals are insisting that all cultures are equally good and that economic hardships cannot, at least partially, be attributed to culture, then they are obviously not doing them any favor. It sounds like:

"Sure guys, not allowing women to work and drive is part of your culture and we respect it and we believe that, since it is your culture, we must respect it and honor it. You should not reform it; asking you to reform it would make us racists."
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  #365  
Old 09.11.2014, 21:50
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Japan and Switzerland are examples of countries with very limited natural resources but are doing just fine, to say the least. And many African countries have plenty of resources; its just that they are corrupt beyond imaginable and cannot divide these resources appropriately. I really believe that culture is crucial to economic growth and success. And when I mean culture, I mean culture; there is a profound difference between race and culture. Not liking a particular culture does not make one a racist.

And something very important. If liberals are insisting that all cultures are equally good and that economic hardships cannot, at least partially, be attributed to culture, then they are obviously not doing them any favor. It sounds like:

"Sure guys, not allowing women to work and drive is part of your culture and we respect it and we believe that, since it is your culture, we must respect it and honor it. You should not reform it; asking you to reform it would make us racists."
Rampant corruption I can agree with, but this a general human failing, not an ethnic identity. That same level of corruption exists in the West, except we look the other way when it apparently benefits "the greater good". And we gladly accept when corruption is practice in other "cultures" so long as it is a gain for us. And now we complain about that "corruption" when the blowback is immigration from those same cultures. I think in that light, that is hypocritical.

You are probably not aware that a large number of Saudi women are actually educated, and hold high level positions.

I think a lot of these less "blessed" countries are on an upward trajectory, and Europe is on a downward trajectory. If and when you see affluence more in those places, and Europe becomes the "third world", revisit your sentiments on those "other" cultures.
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  #366  
Old 09.11.2014, 22:02
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Re: London vs Zurich

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I really believe that culture is crucial to economic growth and success.
So what changed in the 'culture' of, say, England, that used to suffer from repeated plagues, crop failures etc, that it transformed from a corrupt and feudal 'third world country' in the 14th century into a economic super-power by the 18th century?

Regards
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Old 09.11.2014, 22:06
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Re: London vs Zurich

i believe that most people would agree that Europe is not becoming a third world place anytime soon if ever..unless some highly unlikely natural disaster occurs. The reason is that there is a lot of wealth accumulated in Europe over the years. The superior educational system in Europe (compared to the one in Africa or the Middle East) will make sure that the knowledge and know-how are passed to the next generations.

And about corruption..I think that corruption is really an "inherit vice" to mankind in general. However, in third world countries corruption is rampant on the lowest level - high school teachers, local police patrols, local municipality officers. While in Europe and the US it doesnt really matter if the guys on the very top are corrupt because their actions do not directly impact the lives of the average people, this is not the case in the above mentioned places where one can get away with the worst of crimes provided he pays to the right people.

About Saudi Arabia, I know there are educated girls over there but this is the only place in the world where women are not allowed to drive...so any argument in support of Saudi`s contribution to the economy there loses its authority.

And btw I agree with you that the situation in these parts of the world is slowly getting better, but I cannot see how they will surpass Europe / USA/ Japan anytime soon. Btw , speaking of Japan, there were rumors in the 1980s that their Economy could stay #1 forever but I still believe they lost the #1 spot to the US and then China because of their culture. Japan is very conservative and closed to foreigners, their strong adherence to authority and traditions, imo , prevents growth.
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  #368  
Old 09.11.2014, 22:13
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Re: London vs Zurich

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So what changed in the 'culture' of, say, England, that used to suffer from repeated plagues, crop failures etc, that it transformed from a corrupt and feudal 'third world country' in the 14th century into a economic super-power by the 18th century?

Regards
1. Every country in the 14th century was more or less third world to todays standards. Moreover, the difference in economic standards and performance between all countries was miniature. For one reason. All countries had access to the same (non existent) primitive technology.

2. The culture of England after the 18th century became much more open and tolerant to foreigners. The country started importing the best brains in the whole world. English replaced French and German as the preferred language for diplomacy and cultural exchange. As a result, more people started learning English and more people became inclined to moving to England.

3. The cultural shift that marked the end of slavery, the gender equality, and the openness to foreigners allowed England to make a better use of the rising technology; something that others countries failed at because of their bigotry and lack of appreciation for the change.
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  #369  
Old 09.11.2014, 22:13
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Re: London vs Zurich

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So what changed in the 'culture' of, say, England, that used to suffer from repeated plagues, crop failures etc, that it transformed from a corrupt and feudal 'third world country' in the 14th century into a economic super-power by the 18th century?
War, Imperialism, colonization, plundering of wealth, resulting in....

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The reason is that there is a lot of wealth accumulated in Europe over the years.
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  #370  
Old 09.11.2014, 22:22
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Re: London vs Zurich

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War, Imperialism, colonization, plundering of wealth, resulting in....
Ok, for the sake of arguing, even if I concede that imperialism did in fact increase the wealth of many countries in Europe, answer this then,

What enabled England and other European countries conquer territories during the, say, 16th century ? Why was England, a relatively small Island, able to conquer so much territory and why this was not achieved by the island of Madagascar for example Why did Spain and Portugal managed to conquer South America and not the Incas and Mayas conquer Europe during the 16th century )) The fact was that Europe was much more powerful than the rest of the world in the middle ages , as it is more powerful today. Power is not the result of imperialism; the imperialism is the result of an already well-established power
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  #371  
Old 09.11.2014, 22:23
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Wealth is not the result of imperialism; the imperialism is the result of supremacy
Nazi freak!
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Old 09.11.2014, 22:33
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Nazi freak!
How typical, isnt it Once you ran out of arguments you play the racist card

I managed to address all your arguments and counter them with simple examples and facts from history. And then you call me a Nazi...and you have no idea that I lost 2 grandfathers and a grandmother to Nazism ...

It is always the most convenient to say that external forces are the reasons for the misfortune of people; the difficult part is to assume responsibilities to alter your own destiny by taking the necessary actions. And, frankly, @phos, by reinforcing people`s beliefs that its not their fault for living an unsatisfactory life, you are not helping them change their life
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Old 09.11.2014, 22:42
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Re: London vs Zurich

Good for you to edit your post from your claims of superiority to "well-established power". Your claims of superiority are circumstantial. The west has just as much corruption as any place else. And no, you are not superior to other cultures. Compared to other cultures, you are barely living. Don't for a moment think other people from cultures would like to turn theirs in for yours. They are more likely to transforms yours before that happens, for your own good.
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Old 09.11.2014, 22:45
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Good for you to edit your post from your claims of superiority to "well-established power". Your claims of superiority are circumstantial. The west has just as much corruption as any place else. And no, you are not superior to other cultures. Compared to other cultures, you are barely living. Don't for a moment think other people from cultures would like to turn theirs in for yours. They are more likely to transforms yours before that happens, for your own good.
I honestly chose the wrong word... I edited it in the second..it was an honest mistake...I am sorry for it. English is only my third language..
and btw I think it is hypocritical for you to assert how much better the "third world countries are", culturally and (soon-to-be) economically, when you live in Zürich, arguable the wealthiest city in the "morally degraded Europe"
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Old 09.11.2014, 22:47
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Re: London vs Zurich

Credit helped and the rise of the banks helped Britain and the Dutch, two seafaring countries who took advantage of cheap cash to exploit trade to become rich. Check out Niall Ferguson's 'Empire'. A revisionist history but interesting nevertheless
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  #376  
Old 09.11.2014, 22:49
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Many Westerners (probably you included) yes, but a lot more have an ingrained belief that they are superior in all regards. I think you (because you are young and think or have thought in a certain way) idealise the Western world. Very much. Yes, there is more tolerance compared to other places but it's not even near to how you seem to see it.
Btw, those Western gentlemen who go to some places to find their brand new brides aren't thinking we're all equal, rest assured.

You may define where the West to you begins. For people in Cairo cities like Sofia, Warsaw, Budapest and Vienna are in the West
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Old 09.11.2014, 22:52
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Russia wasn't colonized and the occupiers of Brazil assimilated themselves within the society. While what China has achieved is truly remarkable how that is even related with the fact that it was indeed looted by the European colonialists even though not in the same manner and for as long as say India. And in fact how does it deny the economic mischief perpetuated by the Colonist. And how does it even vindicate that the Europeans are more tolerant??


Much of which is also true for India, for example.


No I don't cast you as a biased Westerner, just a biased person. Your opinion has nothing to with you being a Westerner.


So now it has reduced to only India or what? First you were picking up on the Asians, then Der_Spieler was talking about right wing nationalism in Europe being rooted in immigrants from Africa and Asia being send to Islamic schools which you whole-hearted supported. Contrary to what you say or Lee Kuan Yew might have said, India is thriving, as indeed much of Asia and that has much to do with the fact that these countries are no more colonies of the Western world. The theory you are propounding is simply wrong. With time many of these countries, including India, will achieve better records.

In fact when you say some erstwhile colonies are doing better than some Western countries it further vindicates my stand that with liberation from colonialist former colonies are regaining their footings.

It is very simple actually. There are intolerant Europeans, and intolerant Turks, and intolerant Indians, and Chinese and Vietnamese and of all other race and ethnicity, just as there are tolerant Europeans and Tursk and Indian etc etc.

@FuriousRose was very correct that immigration involves economic reasons and historical background of migration.

Regards

Russia was a COLONIZER and a colonial power. Just look at Central Asia (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, etc)
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Old 09.11.2014, 22:56
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Re: London vs Zurich

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1. Every country in the 14th century was more or less third world to todays standards. Moreover, the difference in economic standards and performance between all countries was miniature. For one reason. All countries had access to the same (non existent) primitive technology.
Much of Europe, and perhaps England more so, was the 'third world' by the standards of those days. No wonder there is a certain significance to the term "The Renaissance". Otherwise this term wouldn't have been coined.

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2. The culture of England after the 18th century became much more open and tolerant to foreigners.
The country started importing the best brains in the whole world. English replaced French and German as the preferred language for diplomacy and cultural exchange. As a result, more people started learning English and more people became inclined to moving to England.
That change came about because England was now flush with money. Money that was accumulated from the plunder in the East and down South. It was more successful than the French and the German, the Spanish and the Portugese, the Dutch and the Italian in this endevour and hence it was possible for it to establish this 'cultural' hegemony that you are alluding to. About best of the brains from the whole world.. it will be really interesting if you could list down 5 great Chinese or Indian or Iranian person who achieved some distinction in England in the 17th century (Certainly you aren't suggesting there were no good-brainers in these countries).


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3. The cultural shift that marked the end of slavery, the gender equality, and the openness to foreigners allowed England to make a better use of the rising technology; something that others countries failed at because of their bigotry and lack of appreciation for the change.
So what happened to this culture post WW 2 that first Japan, then China and now even India, Brazil, Indonesia have gone past UK?

The sequence is palpably clear 14th century --> Economic backwaters --> inventions and discoveries --> Success in Colonialism --> Industrial revolution --> Lots of wealth --> Development of Edwardian 'culture' --> Strife in Europe --> World Wars --> Impossible to maintain the colonies --> Freeing the colonies --> The colonies little by little inching toward economic emancipation --> Eclipsing some of the erstwhile super-powers --> 21st century...
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Old 09.11.2014, 22:57
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Re: London vs Zurich

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You may define where the West to you begins. For people in Cairo cities like Sofia, Warsaw, Budapest and Vienna are in the West
Well, to me all the above mentioned cities are western. Western is defined not only by Geography but also by culture, economics, and even religion. All the above mentioned cities are located in democracies, in the EU, have long lasting impact on the history if Europe, and are Christian
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Old 09.11.2014, 22:58
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Russia was a COLONIZER and a colonial power. Just look at Central Asia (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, etc)
Absolutely.
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