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  #401  
Old 10.11.2014, 12:30
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Well unless @officegirl has come to a decision one should close this thread . It's become so fukng offtrack!
She seems to have zeroed-in on Zurich.

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  #402  
Old 10.11.2014, 13:14
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Re: London vs Zurich

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She seems to have zeroed-in on Zurich.

Regards
It would be a much simpler conversation and a cleaner thread without the racist Insinuations. If the question is if Zuerich still has cultural homogeny, it no longer does. They would have to insulate themselves with other like- minded people, and exclude others. Which some Swiss try to do. But you don't have to be in Switzerland to do that. The Amish do it.
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Old 10.11.2014, 22:59
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Re: London vs Zurich

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If your argument is evident, that these Middle East and Pakistani women, feel somewhat culturally inferior in their home country, we should've seen an influx of these women migrating alone. Again, if you argue that it is "cultural inferiority", why do they then, as you claim, remain imposing the same culture they escape from?
Are you even listening to yourself denn ?
How can you imagine a Pakistani woman/girl coming to the West alone without her husband, if she had never worked, does not have any money, cannot get a Visa for Europe (without valid reasons for traveling; illegal immigration is not valid reason). God, she might not even have a passport ....

As to , why they stick to their culture if they think it is inferior or they want to escape from it...well, two reasons really..its the only thing they know. And of course, not many people consciously go ahead and admit - "my culture is inferior, I am about to change it" It doesnt work that way. People dont like to admit the reason for their misfortune is usually within them.
Bottom line, it is much easier to say that economic hardships are the reason for immigration. It is more difficult to go further and attempt to analyze what leads to these economic hardships.

And I don`t understand why you are attempting to argue with #OfficeGirl regarding racism since she was there and experienced it first hand. I would assume that she had a good job in a reputable company, met with above-average people, which are also highly conservative and traditional and her observations are very close to the stereotypes. And stereotypes exist for reason. Statistically speaking, stereotypes are more likely to be true than not because they are the result of many observations over a significant period of time. And Statistics doesnt lie. Just think about this.

If you are about to decide on a new car and you ve heard that statistically Toyotas are more reliable than Ford , all other things being equal, you would go with Toyota. Its the same with countries, cultures, and people.

if I am to bet what is the skin color of the 100m sprint winner, I wouldnt think twice.
If I had to say whether, on average, North Europeans or South Europeans are more productive and hard working, I wouldnt think twice.
If I had to say whether, on average, North Europeans or South Europeans are more creative and fun, I wouldnt think twice.
If I hear on the news there is a suicide bombing in some subway around the world and I had to put all my savings on the religion of the suicide bomber, I wouldnt think twice.


I believe that every society has goods and bads, every society is better at something and worse at something else. Identifying these strengths and weaknesses, not agreeing that everybody is good at everything, not agreeing that all people are equal, does not make one racist. It enables him to take the best out of everything Do not put everybody under the same common denominator. Enjoy the different, celebrate diversity

Cheers.
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Old 10.11.2014, 23:29
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Are you even listening to yourself denn ?
How can you imagine a Pakistani woman/girl coming to the West alone without her husband, if she had never worked, does not have any money, cannot get a Visa for Europe (without valid reasons for traveling; illegal immigration is not valid reason). God, she might not even have a passport ....
I was only giving you examples to prove whether you could hold your arguments about women not working in the Middle East or women stoned in Pakistan. Even yourself could not imagine this, which means your arguments aren't valid.




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And I don`t understand why you are attempting to argue with #OfficeGirl regarding racism since she was there and experienced it first hand. I would assume that she had a good job in a reputable company, met with above-average people, which are also highly conservative and traditional and her observations are very close to the stereotypes. And stereotypes exist for reason. Statistically speaking, stereotypes are more likely to be true than not because they are the result of many observations over a significant period of time. And Statistics doesnt lie. Just think about this.
I don't have a problem what her experienced,which understandably shapes her personal preferences. However, judging the whole culture and the whole society based only individual experience is certainly daft, which reinforces daft stereotypes. And what else do we call daft stereotypes about certain culture or race if not racism?



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If you are about to decide on a new car and you ve heard that statistically Toyotas are more reliable than Ford , all other things being equal, you would go with Toyota. Its the same with countries, cultures, and people.
We're talking about human, not some non-living things. As some posters and I already mentioned, we can't explain dating or how people meet with statistics. It goes beyond it.




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if I am to bet what is the skin color of the 100m sprint winner, I wouldnt think twice.
If I had to say whether, on average, North Europeans or South Europeans are more productive and hard working, I wouldnt think twice.
If I had to say whether, on average, North Europeans or South Europeans are more creative and fun, I wouldnt think twice.
If I hear on the news there is a suicide bombing in some subway around the world and I had to put all my savings on the religion of the suicide bomber, I wouldnt think twice.
I leave you judging yourself whether or not you're being racist by saying those statements.



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I believe that every society has goods and bads, every society is better at something and worse at something else. Identifying these strengths and weaknesses, not agreeing that everybody is good at everything, not agreeing that all people are equal, does not make one racist. It enables him to take the best out of everything Do not put everybody under the same common denominator. Enjoy the different, celebrate diversity
Spoken by someone who believes on Europe's supremacy..
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  #405  
Old 10.11.2014, 23:45
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Re: London vs Zurich

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I was only giving you examples to prove whether you could hold your arguments about women not working in the Middle East or women stoned in Pakistan. Even yourself could not imagine this, which means your arguments aren't valid.
You should have made it clear you wanted proof.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pakista...rged-1.2697965

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO130...-a-cell-ph.htm

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/09...#__federated=1

http://www.thehindu.com/news/interna...cle6423253.ece

I said that the European/North American culture is superior and I stand by my words. Obviously, there are amazingly talented and bright people everywhere. If they want to come and add value to our societies while they themselves improve their life, this would be absolutely amazing.
However, as long as they come here and try to change our societies to the ones from which their escaped, then we should show them the door.
If one is racist because he invites someone to his house for a mutual help but wants to send him away as soon as he tries to corrupt his house, then societies` definition for racism is rather irrational, don`t you think so ?
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  #406  
Old 11.11.2014, 01:13
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Re: London vs Zurich

Hello Officegirl,

I am an English male of 37 years and I have spent a lot of time over the years in various parts of Switzerland. I have never found it hard to make friends there. I have many friends both English and Swiss who live in Zurich. The one warning I will give is that the English women I know do not rate the Swiss men very highly in a relationship so it depends on whether you are looking for mr. Right or mr. Right now. There are exceptions of course and there are many men in London who are also not good. If you do decide to move to Zurich then I can put you in touch with the social scene there which I enjoyed but I am an outgoing friendly person who has no issue in approaching people. It is true that you may have to put more effort in and be careful with your choices. Swiss men can take a long time to show their true feelings. I wish you the best of luck and let me know how you get on.

Nathaniel
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  #407  
Old 11.11.2014, 03:36
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Re: London vs Zurich

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And I don`t understand why you are attempting to argue with #OfficeGirl regarding racism since she was there and experienced it first hand.
So a skinhead living in an area with some Pakistanis is not a racist anymore as he has first hand experience? That's the dumbest argument I have ever heard. It's right up there with "I am no racist and have some Muslim friend, but..."

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I said that the European/North American culture is superior and I stand by my words.
Because we have always been so nice to people?





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  #408  
Old 11.11.2014, 07:26
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Re: London vs Zurich

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You should have made it clear you wanted proof.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pakista...rged-1.2697965

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO130...-a-cell-ph.htm

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/09...#__federated=1

http://www.thehindu.com/news/interna...cle6423253.ece

I said that the European/North American culture is superior and I stand by my words. Obviously, there are amazingly talented and bright people everywhere. If they want to come and add value to our societies while they themselves improve their life, this would be absolutely amazing.
However, as long as they come here and try to change our societies to the ones from which their escaped, then we should show them the door.
If one is racist because he invites someone to his house for a mutual help but wants to send him away as soon as he tries to corrupt his house, then societies` definition for racism is rather irrational, don`t you think so ?

Culture against civilisation. In regard to culture, Asia is superior, but in regard to civilisation (not the same) the West still is in the lead
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Old 11.11.2014, 07:36
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Re: London vs Zurich

I'm glad to hear that some of view have common sense about the difference between cultural difference and racism. I'll have to take the time later on to respond in full!! I will say that I seem to have expressed myself badly; I am not against immigration, I am in favour of immigration but I am in favour of SELECTIVE immigration.ie letting in people who have the necessary skills and are culturally close to the country they are entering. That is the system in Singapore and Australia. The immigration systems of these countries also do economic forecasts by sector and identify areas of the economy where skilled labour is missing. These systems work well and more European countries should look into adopting the same.
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Old 11.11.2014, 07:41
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Re: London vs Zurich

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I am in favour of immigration but I am in favour of SELECTIVE immigration.ie letting in people who have the necessary skills and are culturally close to the country they are entering. That is the system in Singapore and Australia.
It is not at all the system in Singapore otherwise would you never be allowed in. You are quite obviously not just culturally very different from Singaporeans but dislike the culture so much that you want to leave. It is very hard to follow your arguments as they seem extremely random.
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Old 11.11.2014, 07:45
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Re: London vs Zurich

Singapore has racial and national quotas Treverus. That is why Caucasians are 1% of the population. Lee Kuan Yew has said that in order to maintain the economic engine of Dingapore the majority of immigrants must be racially Chinese.
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Old 11.11.2014, 07:46
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Re: London vs Zurich

Oops that should read Singapore not Dingapore.
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  #413  
Old 11.11.2014, 07:53
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Culture against civilisation. In regard to culture, Asia is superior, but in regard to civilisation (not the same) the West still is in the lead
I agree Wollishofener.

We have bigger houses but smaller families;

more conveniences, but less time.

We have more degrees but less sense;

more knowledge but less judgment;

more experts, but more problems;

more medicines but less healthiness.

Weve been all the way to the moon and back,

but have trouble in crossing the street to meet our new neighbour.

We built more computers to hold more copies than ever,

But have less real communication;

We have become long on quantity,

but short on quality.

These are times of fast foods but slow digestion;

Tall mean but short characters;

Steep profits but shallow relationships.

Its a time when there is much in the window

But nothing in the room


- H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama
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  #414  
Old 11.11.2014, 08:14
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Re: London vs Zurich

sudeepta,

am I a racist for not liking ISIS fighters and for saying that all their western supporters should be stripped out of their western nationality ?
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  #415  
Old 11.11.2014, 09:19
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Re: London vs Zurich

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sudeepta,

am I a racist for not liking ISIS fighters and for saying that all their western supporters should be stripped out of their western nationality ?
No. But you are a prejudiced person if you think that the ISIS fighters are imbecile rascals JUST BECAUSE they happen to be Muslim or JUST BECAUSE now they have killed some Western journos, while they were at it against the Syrians (with some help from the West) for quite some time now.

Regards
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Old 11.11.2014, 09:33
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Re: London vs Zurich

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sudeepta,

am I a racist for not liking ISIS fighters and for saying that all their western supporters should be stripped out of their western nationality ?
If that is your only perspective on the problem of ISIS are you a simpleton that falls for UKIP style propaganda, nothing more.

ISIS does not exist because middle eastern culture is different: ISIS was founded by members of two very different groups - radical muslims and high ranking officials of Saddams Baath party. Those two never liked each other before and only this combination makes them so strong - logistical know-how and planning capabilities combined with religious terror. The only reason these two found together is because they were locked up by American troops in the same jails and got a good taste of Western freedom there: No legal representation, no charges, no judges... just getting thrown into a torture prison for however long the occupators deemed good. So much about our cultural superiority and especially your moral high ground.

At some point people were simply broken and the former military officers hated nothing more than being treated terribly by the Americans for no apparent reason. That's the moment when the religious folks were able to get them... there would be no ISIS without the West and especially without the war crimes committed by the US in Iraqi prisons. But now we let other people die for that mistake...
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Old 11.11.2014, 09:42
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Re: London vs Zurich

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I said that the European/North American culture is superior and I stand by my words.

Can you really believe yourself saying that?




"Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority."-Arthur Schopenhauer
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  #418  
Old 11.11.2014, 10:12
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Re: London vs Zurich

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I said that the European/North American culture is superior and I stand by my words. Obviously, there are amazingly talented and bright people everywhere. If they want to come and add value to our societies while they themselves improve their life, this would be absolutely amazing.
However, as long as they come here and try to change our societies to the ones from which their escaped, then we should show them the door.
If one is racist because he invites someone to his house for a mutual help but wants to send him away as soon as he tries to corrupt his house, then societies` definition for racism is rather irrational, don`t you think so ?
A few months ago, when ISIS started making gains, a hot topic was the "Jihadists in our midst". Digging into the story deeper, I learned through Pew and Gallup polls that approximately 30% of Muslims living in the West do not identify with the West. I believe this is partly the result of exclusionist attitudes in the West from the likes of you.

I was subconsciously thinking along these same lines you are pouting in this post. But now that you posted this, it made me cringe because of the stupidity and ugliness of it. It seemed fine when I thought it, but in reading your words, I seriously felt like throwing up.

You obviously consider foreigners and their cultures a threat to you and yours. And you propose limiting this perceived threat, by limiting them. This is the standard xenophobic and racist proposition, however cute you might try to twist words to apply it. But I'll tell you what you are really revealing with this position. You are subconsiously acknowledging that your culture is actually weak, and this claim of supremacy is actually an over-compensation for your sense of impotence in face of a looming reality.

Your sentiment is dangerous, especially here in Europe. Europe, for all its claims of saintlihood has a history that is more revealing of its propensities than what it admits to itself. Your sentiment is also ignorant, because as it proposes to address inconveniences in your life, you have no clue what kind of damage you are implying to cause others. Your sentiment is also dark, because it is based on fear.

Your proposition is not based on adding value. Your proposition is based on taking away value. Hence, it is a losing one. So what I suggest to you is to look for approaches and perspectives that actually adds value to your culture and humanity, not diminish other cultures and debilitate humanity. I think people already know and sense where you are coming from, no matter how many times you post it.

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  #419  
Old 11.11.2014, 10:34
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Re: London vs Zurich

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You obviously consider foreigners and their cultures a threat to you and yours. And you propose limiting this perceived threat, by limiting them. This is the standard xenophobic and racist proposition, however cute you might try to twist words to apply it. But I'll tell you what you are really revealing with this position. You are subconsiously acknowledging that your culture is actually weak, and this claim of supremacy is actually an over-compensation for your sense of impotence in face of a looming reality.

Your sentiment is dangerous, especially here in Europe. Europe, for all its claims of saintlihood has a history that is more revealing of its propensities than what it admits to itself. Your sentiment is also ignorant, because as it proposes to address inconveniences in your life, you have no clue what kind of damage you are implying to cause others. Your sentiment is also dark, because it is based on fear.

Your proposition is not based on adding value. Your proposition is based on taking away value. Hence, it is a losing one. So what I suggest to you is to look for approaches and perspectives that actually adds value to your culture and humanity, not diminish other cultures and debilitate humanity. I think people already know and sense where you are coming from, no matter how many times you post it.
In all fairness, another less obviously ugly versions of der_spieler's posts are frequently posted here and very few react. I wonder why. He lacks subtlety and English humour, so he sticks out. But does it have to reach this point?
He's no worse than many posters here - even posters with "credentials"..if you ask me.
Anyhow, I don't understand why this thread is not closed yet. Why? Are the trolls encouraged or what?

Mods, could you please close this thread?
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  #420  
Old 11.11.2014, 14:39
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Trade plus wealth leads to imperialism and not vice versa
That's spot on and that's why still unbeknown to many, China and many other South East Asian and Middle Eastern nations today own more and more of the rest of the world. It may be too late for the west to secure resources for itself. Check out Dambisa Moyo (a Zambian born intellectual) on why the west must wake up and act in its own interest before it's too late:-

http://www.amazon.com/Winner-Take-Al.../dp/0465028284
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