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Old 13.11.2014, 12:38
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Then why is the divorce rate between Swiss women and African, Middle Eastern and Indian men 80% within the first year of marriage whilst the divorce rate between Swiss men and Swiss women is 50%? Please explain.
That may have to do with volume as well as expectations. 3 of 5 is 60%, 150 of 500 is just 30%. But 3/5 can't be extrapolated to 300/500 or conversely 150/500 can't be interpolated to 3/10.
Instead of coming up with such vague conclusions care to show the stats, the sample size and the source of the data. Statistical Conclusions often depend on the conclusion, the interpretor and the target audience and not the stat itself.

I have previously shown you how stats can be perceived.

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PS: Being a qualified statistician/mathematician helps but I think this would be plain to anybody.
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  #622  
Old 13.11.2014, 12:39
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Why would this not be the same for a Swiss woman - African/Middle Eastern/Indian man pairing?
'cause each of them fancies they deserve better...


Why do people marry so late nowadays compared to '30s or '60s, even '70s?
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  #623  
Old 13.11.2014, 12:40
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Re: London vs Zurich

Yes of course sample size is an issue and stats are never perfect as previously highlighted but that doesn't mean that they have no use or do not reflect an underlying pattern. Matriarchal vs patriarchal cultures?
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  #624  
Old 13.11.2014, 12:41
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Re: London vs Zurich

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A gazillion of unrelated reasons, really.
Absolutely.

regards
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Old 13.11.2014, 13:01
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Actually I agree with you on women in the workplace but that wasn't what I was referring to. I was referring to the way women are treated as highlighted in previous posts ie things like bodily integrity, rape, domestic violence rates, etc. I'm not alone...a female friend of mine dated a highly educated Indian guy and got pregnant and had to have an abortion. He told her it was her fault and she had to pay for and go through the abortion alone. These stories abound out here (esp with Indian guys) but of course you're more likely to be aware of these stories if you're a western WOMAN.
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Thank you for this post. The issue I'm highlighting is that western women cannot and should not get involved with non-western men. Just does not work. This is reflected in the divorce rates. And whilst some western women need to stop being career obsessed and embrace femininty, I'm asking western men to stick to western women. We are destroying our society and importing social problems from other people's cultures. To try and pretend everyone is equal is damaging to western women who led the feminist cause during the twentieth century. Whilst this may have gone too far in some cases and countries, I am pleading with western men to respect women and not lower themselves to the standards of men from some other non-western cultures.
You obviously don't get my posting. If you want to take the gender perspective, you should have taken it profoundly and consistently. Feminists argument with "maid and mistress" is that women are still living in patriarchal system, despite the presence of gender empowerment, which takes higher level in the West than in the East. Feminists argue that patriarchal system takes different forms across cultures, be it in the Western or Eastern cultures. They call it the "intersectionality" concept, where women from different countries, races, and cultures experience different kind of oppression. So, it's not about the culture, it's about the system, if you see deeper and in a more holistic way.

Now, what I see in your argument is that, you take gender perspective and cast it upon certain culture, as a legitimation that certain culture is lower or inferior to others. I'm sorry, but I'm certainly sure that my feminist fellows would curse you for doing that.
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Old 13.11.2014, 13:01
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Yes of course sample size is an issue and stats are never perfect as previously highlighted but that doesn't mean that they have no use or do not reflect an underlying pattern. Matriarchal vs patriarchal cultures?
Off course they have some use, but it depends on what you use it for. What slant you want to give the data, what do you want to hightlight, what do you want to hide.
Two stats for the same 'Sample Universe' are comparable ONLY WHEN the sample sizes are same and even then a lot of factors matter (Is the Indian a natualized citizen of Switzerland? Does the African have a long term work permit? Do the man and woman belong to the same economic strata?).
I have pointed this out in a previous post, if X Asian women are marrying Caucasian males in SGP, then exactly X Caucasian males are marrying Asian women in SGP...as a % far fewer Asian women are marrying Caucasian males compared to Whites marrying Asian Women from the available pool... now this can be perceived in many ways, for example one can easily conclude that Caucasian women are inferior in significantly many attributes (physical, emotional, intelligence) that Caucasian Males desire in women when compared to Asian women - if one wants to conclude that. Does it give you a rosy feeling that you aren't desirable to Caucasian males? But you want to conclude that Asian women 'hook onto' Caucasian males as it is some sort of ticket to heaven/West.


As an aside, what do you meant by Matriarchal vs patriarchal cultures? Is the 'European culture' (if I may brand a generality) Matriarchal?
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  #627  
Old 13.11.2014, 13:09
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Re: London vs Zurich

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As an aside, what do you meant by Matriarchal vs patriarchal cultures? Is the 'European culture' (if I may brand a generality) Matriarchal?
Regards
Take a look at Switzerland to begin with, since we're all living here.
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Old 13.11.2014, 13:17
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Re: London vs Zurich

Sudeepta, you're hired!

OfficeGirl, could you get me a cup of coffee please?
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  #629  
Old 13.11.2014, 13:40
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Then why is the divorce rate between Swiss men and Russian women 15%?
Have no idea. What's your opinion?

You don't think they might cling together, do you?

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Old 13.11.2014, 13:50
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Re: London vs Zurich

Don't go to Zurich (and I live here). There is NO dating scene here. It is actually considered odd for a woman to be alone in a bar in Zurich. A friend has been approached more than once by men assuming she's a prostitute (which is legal here). Also, there are TWO languages to master here simultaneously, Swiss German and High German. It takes most people many years to learn both of them. If you are looking for fun and a social life, London is far superior. Switzerland is a nice place to raise kids, but meeting someone first is much harder here.
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  #631  
Old 13.11.2014, 13:51
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Re: London vs Zurich

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Then why is the divorce rate between Thai women and Swiss men 30%?
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Then why is the divorce rate between Swiss men and Russian women 15%?
That's why we have interpretivist/qualitative paradigm. Statistics can only tell you the what and not the why. One needs to have an in depth qualitative study on that.
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Old 13.11.2014, 13:58
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Re: London vs Zurich

I agree with you FuriousRose - one needs to ask the question WHY?

Regarding Sudeepta's point, whilst it is a valid point I have already pointed out that statistics are flawed. Swiss citizenship is notoriously hard to get and naturalization rates remain extremely low so whilst this is a valid point I do not think we can wholly dismiss the statistics on this basis.
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  #633  
Old 13.11.2014, 14:00
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Re: London vs Zurich

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That's why we have interpretivist/qualitative paradigm. Statistics can only tell you the what and not the why. One needs to have an in depth qualitative study on that.
Or better not, so we can draw whatever conclusions we want from them.
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Old 13.11.2014, 14:02
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Re: London vs Zurich

I do not think that the statistics can be wholly dismissed on that basis.
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Old 13.11.2014, 14:06
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Re: London vs Zurich

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I do not think that the statistics can be wholly dismissed on that basis.
So you're simply proposing this

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I'm asking western men to stick to western women. We are destroying our society and importing social problems from other people's cultures.
...but if I remember correctly at the same time you admire men that can think for themselves.
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Old 13.11.2014, 14:08
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Re: London vs Zurich

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So you're simply proposing this



...but if I remember correctly at the same time you admire men that can think for themselves.
Pay attention - it is do as I say don't do as I do not the other way around.
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Old 13.11.2014, 14:43
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Re: London vs Zurich

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I agree with you FuriousRose - one needs to ask the question WHY?

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I do not think that the statistics can be wholly dismissed on that basis.
Who says we should abandon the statistics? But as I as said, one can't explain the why by statistics, and that's what you're actually doing. Did you so far refer to any qualitative studies about interracial marriages? No, you keep coming back to statistics. You basically use positivist approach to draw an interpretivist argument, and hence Greenmount nailed it in the posting below. Even if one refers to any qualitative studies, one really needs to really consider the contexts, limitation, assumptions of the study. In sum, you can use whatever statistics to justify your racist argument, but that doesn't mean your entire argument valid.

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Or better not, so we can draw whatever conclusions we want from them.
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Old 13.11.2014, 14:58
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Re: London vs Zurich

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So you're simply proposing this



...but if I remember correctly at the same time you admire men that can think for themselves.
You're quite right here greenmount. Every man needs to make this decision for himself weighing up both pros and cons of any relationship. There is no rational reason why you should marry the same ethnicity as your mother or your sister other than this is traditionally what has been done throughout most of peacetime history and what historically evolved societies did such as in India. However marrying your equal does ensure that there are no leftover women at the top of society or leftover men at the bottom of society. This is what happens when men marry down and women marry up. And that's why one could say that the caste system is in a sense a feminist system.
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Old 13.11.2014, 15:00
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Re: London vs Zurich

One thing's for sure... Whoever is gonna go out with OfficeGirl next is gonna get it well and proper!
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Old 13.11.2014, 15:02
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Re: London vs Zurich

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You're quite right here greenmount. Every man needs to make this decision for himself weighing up both pros and cons of any relationship. There is no rational reason why you should marry the same ethnicity as your mother or your sister other than this is traditionally what has been done throughout most of peacetime history and what historically evolved societies did such as in India. However marrying your equal does ensure that there are no leftover women at the top of society or leftover men at the bottom of society. This is what happens when men marry down and women marry up. And that's why one could say that the caste system is in a sense a feminist system.

This kinda makes sense on a very simple, distopian, fundamental level. But how are you defining equals and marrying up and down?

I have yet to find a partner at my level!
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