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  #41  
Old 19.01.2015, 09:04
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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**sinking into depression**
A truly understandable emotion, but tell yourself to keep a cool head and think rationally and decisively. Take a step outside the black cloud you're in and look at the issue practically. Treat this like you would deal with a problem at work, where you come up with a solution after evaluating the options. Giving up too soon isn't the answer. Being worried makes us more worried. Being scared makes us more scared. Acknowledge those emotions but leave them in the hallway while you step into another room to actually solve the problem.

You're here for support and advice, which I'm sure the EF community can provide, but it would help if you could give some indication of how much trouble you are in. A student or low earner who gets hit for 10K CHF might feel more desperate than a seasoned Forex trader stung for 500K, and there will be different advice for each of these.

Everyone on this forum has been in a few scrapes and desperate situations. We've all been there, to a greater or less extent, and most would agree that once out of the woods, we look back and conclude that escape wasn't as bad as we feared.

If you don't feel able to say more to us, find someone that you can speak to -- someone other than just friends with shoulders to cry on. Find an expert to confide in. If you're in work, perhaps an understanding boss or senior HR manager. The bank itself will not be as severe as they appear in their letters. I've had a variety of snotty letters from banks and other official bodies but when I get on the phone to them, or across a table, they miraculously become human beings and not institutions.

So rule number one has to be to engage with the bank. Don't just ignore them, and don't get involved in angry correspondence. Go and see someone, and definitely get some legal advice. Remember that following the SNB decision, there will be many people in your position, most probably far worse off.
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  #42  
Old 19.01.2015, 09:53
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Though this is probably little comfort:
You're certainly not alone, there's a reason Swissquote is booking 25mln in provisions.

It's probably best to do as the others already said:
Hire a lawyer, devise a plan and present it to the bank. It sounds as if your original account size was 6 figures, they must be aware that they won't get everything you owe them.
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  #43  
Old 19.01.2015, 10:09
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

I'm not sure how this all works, but from what i understand, if everything goes according to plan, you make a profit that you bank and i presume you enjoy.

If it goes wrong, for whatever reason, the bank gets left holding the baby and the bank is owned by other investors, so they have to suffer your loss.

If you were leveraged up which sounds like you were, the risks were expalined to you and you knew them, so it is unlikely the bank will sit back and take the loss easily, they have to try and recover as much as possible as it is thier duty to shareholders.

Otherwsie it becomes bit too easy, you book the profit and they take the loss.........
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  #44  
Old 19.01.2015, 10:10
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

unless the op actually comes back and fills in some of the blanks I don't think there is any point in this thread continuing tbh.
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  #45  
Old 19.01.2015, 10:16
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

A lot of people lost last week (FX or otherwise) so you are not alone. It would be good to explain how exactly it happened, I am not prying or anything, just curious, also would be beneficial for knowledge on the subject for everybody here.

I also lost quite a bit last week, not on FX, I had negotiated payments in GBP and EUR which were calculated for CHF, once they came in suddenbly 35k CHF equivalent was gone! Decided not to convert them and sail it through, perhaps buy some goods in EU etc,

My boss lost 13M in under 45 minutes, so there you go, I am sure your problem doesn't look that bad.
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  #46  
Old 19.01.2015, 10:24
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I also lost quite a bit last week, not on FX, I had negotiated payments in GBP and EUR which were calculated for CHF, once they came in suddenbly 35k CHF equivalent was gone! Decided not to convert them and sail it through, perhaps buy some goods in EU etc
I'll chip in. I'm holding a significant amount in other currencies and their value in CHF is now significantly reduced. Just like idefix, I might need to reconsider plans and spend this money in the EU, and for sure will start accumulating CHFs. There's nothing to be ashamed of as I'm sure lots of people are in a similar situation.

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If you were leveraged up which sounds like you were, the risks were expalined to you and you knew them, so it is unlikely the bank will sit back and take the loss easily, they have to try and recover as much as possible as it is thier duty to shareholders.

Otherwsie it becomes bit too easy, you book the profit and they take the loss.........
It often is very easy, as there are lots of FX platforms which don't do any real trading. They thrive on the fact that an overwhelming majority loses on FX and everything is running only on paper. In the grand scheme of things, they only book profits and never have to care about the losses as long as the "majority loses" scenario is sustained and the few winners are accounted for. Who knows, perhaps this is a possible backdoor for the op, but we can be sure that the bank wont disclose how much it really lost.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 19.01.2015 at 17:16. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #47  
Old 19.01.2015, 10:37
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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unless the op actually comes back and fills in some of the blanks I don't think there is any point in this thread continuing tbh.
I know what you mean, but given the membership of this forum is generally financially minded with many, I suspect, having complicated investment strategies, my betting is that there are more members than just the OP that have found themselves exposed as a result of the unprecedented events of last Thursday.

With that in mind I think it's worth running with the thread.
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  #48  
Old 19.01.2015, 10:50
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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Because it seems from the OP that he lost more than he could afford.
So? Haven't you read the thread?
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  #49  
Old 19.01.2015, 10:53
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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. . . Or file for bankruptcy.
Here is quite a good basic description of bankruptcy, and the resulting consequences, in Switzerland: (German) http://www.schulden.ch/dynasite.cfm?dsmid=75350
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  #50  
Old 19.01.2015, 11:30
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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I had a large amount of money placed in a forex trading bank and due to the SNB's recent decision, I saw all that money disappear and my account go into the negatives by more than quadruple that amount. The bank is saying I must pay this amount otherwse it will go to the debt collectors. There is no way no how I can pay it.

Is it worth fighting against the bank? Or file for bankruptcy.
When you say you had a large amount of money placed in a forex trading bank, I would assume that this is 1x to 2x the average annual salary in Switzerland. So let's say CHF120k, if you say you are more than 4x in the negative then I assume you are around CHF500k in the red.

You need a lawyer ASAP, get those terms and conditions scrutinized, the bank / FX shop you owe money to are talking rubbish they can threaten you however they like, you don't have to do a damn thing.
There is an old saying that goes if you owe the bank $1 you have a problem, if you owe the bank $1 million the bank has a problem.

So it's not you with the problem, it's the bank that has a problem. This bank / FX shop may soon go into insolvency themselves, so you might not need to worry about this debt as it's their fault as well for allowing you to be leveraged to your eye balls.

Unless you get a summons to go to court, you have time... One thing's for sure though, the "large amount of money" you had with this FX shop is well and truly gone.

Best of luck.
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Old 19.01.2015, 11:35
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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unless the op actually comes back and fills in some of the blanks I don't think there is any point in this thread continuing tbh.
Of course there is, folk can pipe up and continue to say get a lawyer and offer advice.
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  #52  
Old 19.01.2015, 12:14
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

For a lively discussion of what Saxo Bank did to its f/x customers, see this blog and comments:

http://brontecapital.blogspot.com.au...bank-down.html
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  #53  
Old 19.01.2015, 12:22
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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'As per the rules of conduct for many regulated FX brokers this became the broker’s debt and the companies themselves were required to pay it. In many cases the broker simply didn’t have the funds to cover this unexpected shortfall and were forced into insolvency.'
That's exactly what OP's broker did. However, they will take recourse, and probably rightfully so, that's what got OP to where he is. That's why OP needs a lawyer, to assess if the recourse is justified, as well as for negotiations on his payback.
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  #54  
Old 19.01.2015, 12:25
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Not that I'm advising the OP does it. But worse case couldn't they just do a runner back to their home country and hope the debt doesn't follow them?
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Old 19.01.2015, 12:28
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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Not that I'm advising the OP does it. But worse case couldn't they just do a runner back to their home country and hope the debt doesn't follow them?
Honestly, do you guys think before posting? Please keep these opinions to yourselves. The world is a much smaller place than it used to be 30 years ago.
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Old 19.01.2015, 12:31
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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Honestly, do you guys think before posting? Please keep these opinions to yourselves. The world is a much smaller place than it used to be 30 years ago.
Where did I give an opinion?
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  #57  
Old 19.01.2015, 12:37
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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Not that I'm advising the OP does it. But worse case couldn't they just do a runner back to their home country and hope the debt doesn't follow them?
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Honestly, do you guys think before posting? Please keep these opinions to yourselves. The world is a much smaller place than it used to be 30 years ago.

I'm sure doing a runner is not necessary. There is no court in the western world that would allow any customer to pay something they can not afford to pay.

I hope the OP does not have assets to cover the debt though, because if he does, the court may deem the OP liable for the debt and order for his assets to be liquidated to cover the debt.

If the OP doesn't have enough assets to cover the debt, the court may ask for him to pay a reasonable payment for a fixed period of time depending on his income and expenditure. The payment might be revised if the OPs circumstances change.

This is really something that no one in the EF can respond to. It's not been seen before, and I doubt any lawyer will be able to do much anyway but at least if it goes to court you will need one anyway!

I'm sure a few bright lawyers will already see a business opportunity here and start advertising their Debt Advice services to EF users.
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Old 19.01.2015, 12:53
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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...
I'm sure a few bright lawyers will already see a business opportunity here and start advertising their Debt Advice services to EF users.
many people do not have a high opinion of bankers in general... but in my experience, lawyers are another group to be wary about. Particularly if you are likely to start a lengthy process, your lawyer bills can get to sizeable sums
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Old 19.01.2015, 12:57
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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many people do not have a high opinion of bankers in general... but in my experience, lawyers are another group to be wary about. Particularly if you are likely to start a lengthy process, your lawyer bills can get to sizeable sums
If a lawyer can get you off the hook from a 500k debt for let's say 10k price then it's an unavoidable lesser evil...
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Old 19.01.2015, 13:00
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Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

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many people do not have a high opinion of bankers in general... but in my experience, lawyers are another group to be wary about. Particularly if you are likely to start a lengthy process, your lawyer bills can get to sizeable sums
Definitely. Also, they don't know as much as they would like you to think that they know, especially in unusual situations like this. But there's a lot you can do yourself - loads of info available online.
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