Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 20.01.2015, 19:21
xynth's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 764
Groaned at 37 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,694 Times in 508 Posts
xynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
If you have ended up with options on your balance sheet, but have only put up part of the money required to buy those options at the time, then where did the rest of the money come from? Leverage via a loan is one possibility, but I don't think you describe an alternative mechanism.
I wasn't trying to describe an alternative mechanism, I was describing (albeit in a rushed manner) how there are instruments which naturally allow leverage through the margin being smaller than the actual market value of the contract.

I don't feel like typing out the wiki page for how margin calls happen across brokers and exchanges.

Quote:
View Post
Yes, this is one possibility, assuming short-selling of options contracts is available at retail level (is it really? I don't have experience of this, but would expect it not to be. After all, to take a short position in an asset with an options market, just buy a put option, surely? To take a long position, buy a call option? Then the amount you risk is limited to what you paid for the options. Being able to short sell options just seems pointless. Leave the issuing of options (and short selling options has similar risk profile to issuing them) to the institutions).

If it were indeed the case, then "selling insurance for the peg staying in place" is a nice analogy.
I'm not an expert on options either, but as much as you claim to be clearing up confusion, you are adding your own to the mixture too:

1. Going long or short the underlying is just a tiny fraction of possible reasons behind buying or selling options. You are right that they are not for the uninitiated, but there are many in the "retail" segment who are otherwise proficient option traders. Bear in mind that the veteran trader who trades $1M of his own money is also classified as retail.
2. You can certainly do it even at retail level, since all you need is access to an exchange like CBOE, which many retail brokers provide. If you don't know this, I'm really not sure how much you've looked into the area you are advising us about
2. Can you please tell me what is the difference between issuing and short selling options in your nomenclature? For exchange traded options at least, writing/issuing/shorting is one and the same thing.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 20.01.2015, 20:59
Swissish's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Frequent Flier
Posts: 413
Groaned at 27 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 495 Times in 219 Posts
Swissish is considered knowledgeableSwissish is considered knowledgeableSwissish is considered knowledgeable
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Didn't the OP say...
Quote:
View Post
I had a large amount of money placed in a forex trading bank
and then later qualified his statement with...

Quote:
View Post
I put what I had saved while working into an option which was supposed to be virtually risk free.
That's all we know for now folks, he placed his savings in a forex bank into an option but don't know what type of option or the location of the Forex bank. Without more information on the details around the trade it's hard to give any meaningful advice.

To the OP I'm really sorry this happened to you and many many other investors out there. I hope you are able to find some legal recourse to help cover your losses.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 20.01.2015, 21:40
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 3,666
Groaned at 79 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 5,792 Times in 2,134 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

On a side note, when reading this thread at work today, I got a adbanner telling me that forex trading can loose you a lot of money unless you use this one weird old trick that traders hate.
I so hate these kind of ads.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #124  
Old 20.01.2015, 22:59
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Vaud
Posts: 110
Groaned at 7 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 99 Times in 50 Posts
armed_neutrality is considered knowledgeablearmed_neutrality is considered knowledgeablearmed_neutrality is considered knowledgeable
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
Didn't the OP say...
[...]
Quote:
I put what I had saved while working into an option which was supposed to be virtually risk free.
Given the circumstances, I'd interpret "option" very generally without more specific information.
Quote:
That's all we know for now folks, he placed his savings in a forex bank into an option but don't know what type of option or the location of the Forex bank. [...]
Indeed!
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 20.01.2015, 23:15
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 6,524
Groaned at 43 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 9,173 Times in 4,358 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

I am learning so much this week. Apparently some companies allow you to leverage 200:1. Okay, I guess I can afford a fiver in that case...(this is what some people are thinking)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-0...y-trading.html
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #126  
Old 21.01.2015, 08:57
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Engelberg & near Basel
Posts: 5,860
Groaned at 169 Times in 121 Posts
Thanked 8,902 Times in 3,984 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
On a side note, when reading this thread at work today, I got a adbanner telling me that forex trading can loose you a lot of money unless you use this one weird old trick that traders hate.
I so hate these kind of ads.
Me too. You'd think they'd get someone to proof read and get rid of the spelling mistakes first.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
  #127  
Old 21.01.2015, 09:17
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,445
Groaned at 55 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,164 Times in 1,311 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
Me too. You'd think they'd get someone to proof read and get rid of the spelling mistakes first.
Why? We have EF grammar police to do that job.
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 21.01.2015, 09:25
Jern's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bern
Posts: 907
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 1,091 Times in 470 Posts
Jern has a reputation beyond reputeJern has a reputation beyond reputeJern has a reputation beyond reputeJern has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
Me too. You'd think they'd get someone to proof read and get rid of the spelling mistakes first.
Especially in view of this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 21.01.2015, 10:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 3,621
Groaned at 456 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 2,958 Times in 1,475 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

So, long story made short...
How much did he lose?

a) 10k-50k?
b) 50k-100k?
c)100k-200k?
d)200k-500k?
e)More than 500K?

Because, like it was mentioned earlier, if we don't know the actual numbers, we can't provide accurate advice.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank CorsebouTheReturn for this useful post:
  #130  
Old 21.01.2015, 10:37
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 3,666
Groaned at 79 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 5,792 Times in 2,134 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Jeeeez! Twas a typo, honestly guv, I know that the correct spelling is: "lose"
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #131  
Old 21.01.2015, 10:38
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 10,065
Groaned at 267 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,179 Times in 5,757 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
So, long story made short...
How much did he lose?

a) 10k-50k?
b) 50k-100k?
c)100k-200k?
d)200k-500k?
e)More than 500K?

Because, like it was mentioned earlier, if we don't know the actual numbers, we can't provide accurate advice.
Could you? Really?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #132  
Old 21.01.2015, 10:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 3,621
Groaned at 456 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 2,958 Times in 1,475 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
Could you? Really?
Probably not, fair point
That was misplaced curiosity camouflaged into an helpful attempt.

Well, say if the OP owns 10K, then it's not a big deal, eventhough, it might appear as an "impossible" situation for a student, for exemple.

So in regards to that perspective, I could have given some good advice
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 21.01.2015, 10:47
xynth's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 764
Groaned at 37 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,694 Times in 508 Posts
xynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
Could you? Really?


No we couldn't, but let's be honest the discussion in this thread is in dire need of fuel. We ran out of reserves about 2 pages ago and we are now running on fumes. Ass fumes if I'm any judge.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank xynth for this useful post:
  #134  
Old 21.01.2015, 10:50
Swissish's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Frequent Flier
Posts: 413
Groaned at 27 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 495 Times in 219 Posts
Swissish is considered knowledgeableSwissish is considered knowledgeableSwissish is considered knowledgeable
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

He lost his entire lifes savings plus more. He currently does not have and any income (stundent) to be able to see his way clear to pay any of the negative balance back. What does the actuall loss amount really matter against that kind of information? How would you feel if you lost all your lifes savings and ended up in a big black pit of debt on top of it all?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Swissish for this useful post:
  #135  
Old 21.01.2015, 10:50
California Dreamer's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 929
Groaned at 56 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 878 Times in 433 Posts
California Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputationCalifornia Dreamer has an excellent reputation
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
So, long story made short...
How much did he lose?

a) 10k-50k?
b) 50k-100k?
c)100k-200k?
d)200k-500k?
e)More than 500K?

Because, like it was mentioned earlier, if we don't know the actual numbers, we can't provide accurate advice.
Good traders don't care about the total amount only the percentage. I made good percentage on that announcement. Also never trade without a stop loss which should never be more than 1% of your account. No stop loss is like doing a tour of langstrasse without a condom.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank California Dreamer for this useful post:
  #136  
Old 21.01.2015, 10:51
xynth's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 764
Groaned at 37 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,694 Times in 508 Posts
xynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
I am learning so much this week. Apparently some companies allow you to leverage 200:1.[/URL]
Pfft, that's nothing. Real men trade the ruble with 1000:1 leverage using an account denominated in Argentinian pesos with money borrowed from Ivan the local loan shark. All the while sitting on an armed landmine and using a bear trap as a mouse pad.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank xynth for this useful post:
  #137  
Old 21.01.2015, 10:55
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 18,144
Groaned at 926 Times in 722 Posts
Thanked 19,735 Times in 9,481 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
How would you feel if you lost all your lifes savings and ended up in a big black pit of debt on top of it all?
It would depend on the amounts involved.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #138  
Old 21.01.2015, 10:57
xynth's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 764
Groaned at 37 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 1,694 Times in 508 Posts
xynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond reputexynth has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
Good traders don't care about the total amount only the percentage. I made good percentage on that announcement. Also never trade without a stop loss which should never be more than 1% of your account. No stop loss is like doing a tour of langstrasse without a condom.
You do realize that a stop loss would either not have triggered in a scenario like this, or it would have executed more or less at the bottom, right? They do not guarantee both execution and the price level, only one of those. Relying on stop losses is like relying on a condom made of paper. Sure, it might offer superficial protection, but get just a bit wild and you are in a world of hurt.

Edit: dammit was I trolled again?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank xynth for this useful post:
  #139  
Old 21.01.2015, 11:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 3,621
Groaned at 456 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 2,958 Times in 1,475 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
He lost his entire lifes savings plus more. He currently does not have and any income (stundent) to be able to see his way clear to pay any of the negative balance back. What does the actuall loss amount really matter against that kind of information? How would you feel if you lost all your lifes savings and ended up in a big black pit of debt on top of it all?
I read all that.
Still, we could be talking about 10K which is a very big amount of money for some people, but smaller for others (obviously).

I know personally a few people which are in those extremes and I know their perspective is very different.

Why the actual loss would matter?
Because that's the exact problem, which needs to be accurately identified if you want to take appropriate measure.

You won't take the same actions if you lost X CHF as opposed to XXXXCHF.


How would I feel is irrelevant, and absolutely not helpful for the OP:
Feeling is "emotional", if the OP take an "emotional response" to this "unknown scale" disaster, the situation can become much worst, on top of being very unpleasing.

What the OP needs is a cold, mathematical approach regarding a loss of XXCHF. Or a strategy based on" cold" facts (lawyer, laws, contracts, numbers, etc...).

The OP can keep his friends and family for the "emotional" support, I don't believe in "virtual emotional support", especially provided by strangers.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank CorsebouTheReturn for this useful post:
  #140  
Old 21.01.2015, 11:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 3,054
Groaned at 99 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,793 Times in 1,958 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: In Need of Advice (Huge forex trading loss)

Quote:
View Post
Good traders don't care about the total amount only the percentage. I made good percentage on that announcement. Also never trade without a stop loss which should never be more than 1% of your account. No stop loss is like doing a tour of langstrasse without a condom.
How is that of any help? The damage has been done already.

Quote:
View Post
So, long story made short...
How much did he lose?

a) 10k-50k?
b) 50k-100k?
c)100k-200k?
d)200k-500k?
e)More than 500K?

Because, like it was mentioned earlier, if we don't know the actual numbers, we can't provide accurate advice.
OP quit his job and is/was living on his savings while studying. That allows the assumption that this is intended to last at least one year, probably longer.

Which means he had at least 50k savings (probably more as the school/uni may well take multiple yaers). And he says he's quadruple that in the red now so a likely no-less-than is 200k in the red, with a fair chance of it being 500k or even more.

How is that not enough info?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Forex trading anyone? Fesken1 Finance/banking/taxation 23 14.04.2014 18:46
PostFinance update June 2012 ( GeoBlocking & real time Forex Trading ) jrspet Finance/banking/taxation 2 20.06.2012 00:55
UBS revises rogue trading loss upwards The Local Swiss news via The Local 2 19.09.2011 13:58


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0