Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 19.01.2015, 20:23
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fisher
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
jnowacki has no particular reputation at present
Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

I'm in the final stages of the interview process right now. I've been offered a job for $100k CHF in Rotkreuz. On it's face, that's a salary bump for sure (about 26%-33% depending on how you do the math w/ benefits). However, after looking at double taxation (US Citizen) and cost of living increase it appears to be

Numbeo says it's 88% higher cost of living
Expatisan seems to come up with similar numbers.

Are these calculators accurate? If so, I don't understand how anyone survives in Switzerland. Is this the right way to look at things? How should I analyze this stuff?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19.01.2015, 20:28
Ttamasle's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ZH, AaA
Posts: 765
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 895 Times in 325 Posts
Ttamasle has a reputation beyond reputeTtamasle has a reputation beyond reputeTtamasle has a reputation beyond reputeTtamasle has a reputation beyond reputeTtamasle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Will you be solo or with family?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19.01.2015, 20:33
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,472
Groaned at 169 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 9,605 Times in 5,488 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Welcome to the forum.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Inter...-Aliens-Abroad
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19.01.2015, 20:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,970
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

there is no double taxation, but if you are a US citizen you will not get the benefit of the lower tax rate in Rotkreuz and after you pay the additional taxes to Uncle Sam you will be in the same position in Switzerland as you are in Indy. if your only consideration is the cost of living then I would not even think twice and would jump at the opportunity, Indy is ok as far as midsized midwestern cities go but it ain't Switzerland.



biggest difference will be cost of housing, especially in Rotkreuz / Zug - housing prices are inflated in the canton because of the lower taxes but of course Uncle Sam will deprive you of that benefit.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 19.01.2015, 20:42
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 6,522
Groaned at 43 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 9,155 Times in 4,356 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Quote:
View Post
...after looking at double taxation...
Welcome to the Forum.

Just remember you don't really pay double taxes. The tax you pay here (up to a certain amount) offsets against your U.S. tax obligations. If you pay more here than you would in the U.S. you don't need to pay the IRS. If you pay less here than you would in the U.S. then you'll pay the difference to the IRS.

If you want info on cost of living, there's loads of info here. Here are some threads that I think cover the topic nicely, including links and examples of actual expenses. The first one is a bit old, but quite comprehensive and worth a look. The second is more recent:

Cost of living - help needed to get it right

Cost of living in Switzerland-with examples

There are more than 100 threads that talk about cost of living. Some might be relevant to you and others not, but do have a read through the more recent ones. There's a LOT of good advice in there, you just have to do a little of the leg (er, reading) work yourself:

http://www.englishforum.ch/search2.php?q=cost+of+living

Hopefully you can compare your own current costs and lifestyle using some of this info, and determine whether the move is for you.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 19.01.2015, 21:17
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,232
Groaned at 35 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 9,962 Times in 3,068 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Quote:
View Post
I'm in the final stages of the interview process right now. I've been offered a job for $100k CHF in Rotkreuz. On it's face, that's a salary bump for sure (about 26%-33% depending on how you do the math w/ benefits). However, after looking at double taxation (US Citizen) and cost of living increase it appears to be

Numbeo says it's 88% higher cost of living
Expatisan seems to come up with similar numbers.

Are these calculators accurate? If so, I don't understand how anyone survives in Switzerland. Is this the right way to look at things? How should I analyze this stuff?
Fellow Hoosier here. Those numbers are pretty accurate. Having said that, 100K is roughly the median household income for families with 1-2 kids, so it's plenty doable.

Things that change(d for me):
1) You live in a smaller dwelling - most likely an apartment. A spare bedroom isn't expected.
2) You eat less meat. Not necessarily less often if you don't wanna, but smaller portions and cheaper cuts.
3) You dine out less. Meals out are for special occasions, not convenience.
4) Sick leave is a lot more generous here, so (particularly if you also rent and take public transport) your rainy day fund doesn't need to be as big. I'm not saying go ahead and burn through your whole paycheck, but not having 3 months expenses in the bank at all times shouldn't worry you as much as it might back home.

Rotkreuz should be a bit cheaper than Zürich/Geneva when it comes to housing. Other expenses like food, health insurance etc. are pretty much the same across the country; taxes vary, but for a median-ish income you'll find the housing market has already priced that in.
__________________
Need help? Contact a mod.

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 19.01.2015, 21:18
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fisher
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
jnowacki has no particular reputation at present
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

I'm a bit confused.

Quote:
View Post
there is no double taxation, but if you are a US citizen you will not get the benefit of the lower tax rate in Rotkreuz and after you pay the additional taxes to Uncle Sam you will be in the same position in Switzerland as you are in Indy.
Doesn't the above conflict with the below?

Quote:
housing prices are inflated in the canton because of the lower taxes but of course Uncle Sam will deprive you of that benefit.
Also this:

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Inter...-Aliens-Abroad

Quote:
If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate, and gift tax returns and paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are in the United States or abroad. Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19.01.2015, 21:24
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,970
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Quote:
View Post
I'm a bit confused.



Doesn't the above conflict with the below?



Also this:

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Inter...-Aliens-Abroad
the US tax code is intended to ensure that you pay the same tax as you would in the US, no matter where you live. so if your effective tax rate right now would be 20% in Indy and you pay only 12% tax somewhere else in the world, you will need to pay Uncle Sam the other 8%. this is a gross, gross oversimplification but it is the way it is intended to work, and the way it should work for someone in the 100k salary range. this is completely different then the way it would work for expats from elsewhere in the world, who would simply pay the 12% in Switzerland and pay nothing in their home country.

housing is often more expensive in areas in Switzerland where the tax rates are lower, since the lower tax rates results in greater demand for housing.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 19.01.2015, 21:25
nigelr's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,419
Groaned at 109 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 1,482 Times in 715 Posts
nigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Your world wide income is subject to US tax, BUT they allow for the tax you already paid in Switzerland. So if the US decide you need to pay $20K based on your situation but you already paid $10K in Switzerland, they only want the missing $10K.

I think there are plenty of US citizens working/living in Switzerland for around 100K CHF. You won't have lots left over but you'll be ok depending on how many there are of you. If you're single then it shouldn't be a problem.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19.01.2015, 21:29
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fisher
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
jnowacki has no particular reputation at present
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

I'm single. I currently earn $80K and get $10,000 a year for my MBA.

If I go to Switzerland my tuition reimbursement drops to 1,500 CHF and I'll have to drop my MBA or pay online fees through Kelly School of Business (expensive).

You guys are making this sound like a fun lifestyle change but not much difference as far as a financial / career hop.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 19.01.2015, 21:39
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 99
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 99 Times in 57 Posts
jhm3 is considered knowledgeablejhm3 is considered knowledgeablejhm3 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Quote:
View Post
the US tax code is intended to ensure that you pay the same tax as you would in the US, no matter where you live. so if your effective tax rate right now would be 20% in Indy and you pay only 12% tax somewhere else in the world, you will need to pay Uncle Sam the other 8%. this is a gross, gross oversimplification but it is the way it is intended to work, and the way it should work for someone in the 100k salary range. this is completely different then the way it would work for expats from elsewhere in the world, who would simply pay the 12% in Switzerland and pay nothing in their home country.

housing is often more expensive in areas in Switzerland where the tax rates are lower, since the lower tax rates results in greater demand for housing.
But wouldn't the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (of close to $100k per year) significantly limit the US tax liability of someone on a CHF 100k salary? ... in which case, someone on that kind of an income in a low-tax country/canton would have a lower overall tax burden.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19.01.2015, 21:41
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,970
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Quote:
View Post
I'm single. I currently earn $80K and get $10,000 a year for my MBA.

If I go to Switzerland my tuition reimbursement drops to 1,500 CHF and I'll have to drop my MBA or pay online fees through Kelly School of Business (expensive).

You guys are making this sound like a fun lifestyle change but not much difference as far as a financial / career hop.
Kelly is a good program, if you have good grades you should finish your MBA and will have better jobs become available down the road. for someone early in their career, you will not get anywhere near the kind of training in Switzerland that you will in the major or even mid-tier financial markets in the US.

P.S. multiply the above by 1,000 if you are considering a gig at Glencore.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 19.01.2015, 21:46
nigelr's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,419
Groaned at 109 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 1,482 Times in 715 Posts
nigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

To get the same standard of living in Rotkreuz as you do in the US I think you would need 140-150K. If it is about money then stay where you are, if it is for the experience then that's different.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 19.01.2015, 21:49
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fisher
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
jnowacki has no particular reputation at present
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Quote:
View Post
To get the same standard of living in Rotkreuz as you do in the US I think you would need 140-150K. If it is about money then stay where you are, if it is for the experience then that's different.
140-150K USD or CHF?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 19.01.2015, 21:56
nigelr's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,419
Groaned at 109 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 1,482 Times in 715 Posts
nigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Quote:
View Post
140-150K USD or CHF?
CHF. $90K USD in the US is a tidy sum, 100K CHF is not, but 140K will get you a pretty good lifestyle.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 20.01.2015, 00:47
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 7,615
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 15,921 Times in 5,232 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

On that salary you won't be any better off financially, in terms of housing and other material considerations you will have to adjust expectations, but...

Having spent too much of my life driving down I-65: Come to Switzerland.

It's finer 'n frog hair here.




(I am only a Hoosier by marriage.)
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 20.01.2015, 08:06
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Quote:
View Post
I'm in the final stages of the interview process right now. I've been offered a job for $100k CHF in Rotkreuz. On it's face, that's a salary bump for sure (about 26%-33% depending on how you do the math w/ benefits). However, after looking at double taxation (US Citizen) and cost of living increase it appears to be

Numbeo says it's 88% higher cost of living
Expatisan seems to come up with similar numbers.

Are these calculators accurate? If so, I don't understand how anyone survives in Switzerland. Is this the right way to look at things? How should I analyze this stuff?

If you proceed carefully, it is less than 20% as a lot depends on where you shop and how


Frankly spoken I on visits to the USA in 1976, 1982, 1988 and 1997 always found the USA an expensive place
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 20.01.2015, 08:39
HollidayG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kanton Zürich
Posts: 3,021
Groaned at 52 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 1,172 Times in 732 Posts
HollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputation
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Look at Switzerland as a life experience,
not a get rich thing.

It is in the middle of Europe and
offers great travel opportunities.

Your income liability to the US will
Be minimal.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank HollidayG for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 20.01.2015, 09:14
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,967
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,243 Times in 5,007 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Quote:
View Post
Look at Switzerland as a life experience,
not a get rich thing.

It is in the middle of Europe and
offers great travel opportunities.

Your income liability to the US will
Be minimal.


You're single. Take this kind of opportunity with both hands. You never know, one of us may be among your colleagues.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 20.01.2015, 09:16
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fisher
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
jnowacki has no particular reputation at present
Re: Moving from Indianapolis (cheap) to Rotkreuz

Quote:
View Post
Look at Switzerland as a life experience,
not a get rich thing.

It is in the middle of Europe and
offers great travel opportunities.

Your income liability to the US will
Be minimal.
If I was debt free I'd agree. However, after interest I will owe the student-loan-bank $100,000. So I need to be wary of the finances.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cheap reliable moving company from Basel to France Txell Housing in general 3 04.11.2013 14:06
surface mail FROM CH? or moving home on the cheap agrantx Other/general 1 25.07.2013 10:20
Dilemma between moving to Hagendorn or Rotkreuz TheChumaFamily Housing in general 7 16.08.2011 21:12
Moving Sale (Furniture) in Adliswill (15 mins from Zurich HB by train) very cheap pradbis Items for sale 5 28.07.2008 10:59


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0