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  #41  
Old 26.02.2015, 16:17
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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I don't really understand why we have to have a 'day' for anything or anybody.

What's the point if it all really?
It's a great opportunity for shops to seel more flowers and chocolate.

And occasionnally you can have a day off too!
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  #42  
Old 26.02.2015, 16:20
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Is this another example of the inferiority complex of women, that they have to over-justify their being ...... or just a throw back to the 60's and 70's CND marches and lesbian peace camps?
let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're just being your usual humorous self posters who don't know the real you may get the wrong impression
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  #43  
Old 26.02.2015, 16:34
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Tarantula Festival?
Umm, she made that up.

Tom
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  #44  
Old 26.02.2015, 17:25
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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The only thing they do around here is give out mimosa.

Tom
Very fitting for the ladies. Can I have one too?
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  #45  
Old 26.02.2015, 19:47
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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When is International Men's Day, again?

(Or Fathers' Day, in Switzerland, come to that.)
Every other day of the year, except Mother's day.
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  #46  
Old 26.02.2015, 20:07
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Get over it. Want me to make a list of AAAALLLL the things women are still disadvantaged in? Be warned - it's more than one or two.

The event is largely UN-influenced these days and the UN isn't exactly a Swiss institution. And this one day - in its fundamental purpose anyway - is not about paying half a percent more or less taxes for goodness' sakes, but about fundamental disadvantages that women are facing globally.

But statements like the above are EXACTLY why it is impossible in this country to discuss this topic properly, with most people anyway. Reminds me of the "preferred seat for women" thread a few months back, which couldn't have been more ridiculous.
Im trying to get a job at the moment as one of those people who walk around boxing rings with the card held up saying what round it is. I've applied hundreds of times. Ive got a good CV and im an average looking male but I'm not even getting an interview. It's so frustrating.
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  #47  
Old 26.02.2015, 20:10
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Im trying to get a job at the moment as one of those people who walk around boxing rings with the card held up saying what round it is. I've applied hundreds of times. Ive got a good CV and im an average looking male but I'm not even getting an interview. It's so frustrating.
I see your point. It is just so unfair men can't get into degrading, low-paid jobs like women can.
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  #48  
Old 26.02.2015, 20:17
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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I see your point. It is just so unfair men can't get into degrading, low-paid jobs like women can.
You think that men don't work in degrading low paid jobs too ? I would beg to differ.
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  #49  
Old 26.02.2015, 20:47
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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You think that men don't work in degrading low paid jobs too ? I would beg to differ.
I didn't mean to say some of them didn't. It's only the way you tried to ridicule gender equality that got me going.
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Old 26.02.2015, 20:55
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Get over it. Want me to make a list of AAAALLLL the things women are still disadvantaged in? Be warned - it's more than one or two.

[...]

But statements like the above are EXACTLY why it is impossible in this country to discuss this topic properly, with most people anyway.
I don’t think this is supposed to be a competition. You could name dozens of things women are disadvantaged in, it would still not make things disappear were men are at a disadvantage. No offense, but in my opinion the fact that you call this whining shows who doesn’t’ want to discuss this topic properly (your words).
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  #51  
Old 26.02.2015, 21:03
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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I didn't mean to say some of them didn't. It's only the way you tried to ridicule gender equality that got me going.
I was making a reasonably serious point. There is no doubt that women's rights have moved on hugely in the last 50 years but it can be forgotten that it is not a completely one way street. Women have advantages sometimes that men do not, and of course vice versa.

I think a 'celebration of women' day is a great thing, as is a 'celebration of men' day.
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  #52  
Old 26.02.2015, 21:37
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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I was making a reasonably serious point. There is no doubt that women's rights have moved on hugely in the last 50 years but it can be forgotten that it is not a completely one way street. Women have advantages sometimes that men do not, and of course vice versa.

I think a 'celebration of women' day is a great thing, as is a 'celebration of men' day.
Even though I basically agree with what you said, you do not honestly think that being a ring card girl is an advantage for women? You could have picked far better examples where men are at a disadvatage, for example military service in many countries or jobs where women are preferred for political reasons or quota for women.
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  #53  
Old 26.02.2015, 22:27
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Thanks Sublime, very interesting article and right on point. Thanks for pointing it out. If it started here it is even more tragic that it has somehow lost its zest along the way. I only wonder why Terre des Femmes hasn't publicised this super initiative on the official website?!
I do not agree with your conclusions. It is rather due to the fact that this issue has become a standard political subject in Swiss politics. E.g. in 2010 the Bundesrat had a female majority for the first time in history (quite a (Swiss) success!), and many constitutional projects are going along. If you would take care about current Swiss politics you would be very aware of them, but we (Swiss) do not "es an die grosse Glocke hängen"!

In other words, there is not anymore really a need to fight for more rights of women outside of the standard political paths, but to take care more along the established political structures and processes!

Read Swiss newspapers!

Frauenförderung statt Frauenquoten

Swiss Women in politics

Frauen- und Gleichstellungsatlas Schweiz

Im Schnellzug von null zur Mehrheit im Bundesrat: Triumph der Frauen

Frauenrechte / Gleichstellung Mann - Frau: Gesammelte Nachrichten


Dossier: Die Frauenquote

Frauen vernetzen sich

etc and so forth ...
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  #54  
Old 26.02.2015, 22:35
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

maybe because March 8 is a Sunday???

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  #55  
Old 26.02.2015, 22:56
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Im trying to get a job at the moment as one of those people who walk around boxing rings with the card held up saying what round it is. I've applied hundreds of times. Ive got a good CV and im an average looking male but I'm not even getting an interview. It's so frustrating.
Your point being?

Of course it MUST be because women are being preferred, right? Of course it can't be for ANY other reason. That is the ONLY explanation.



You have got to be kidding me.

Also, you might want to use another job as an example.


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In other words, there is not anymore really a need to fight for more rights of women outside of the standard political paths, but to take care more along the established political structures and processes!
You have missed the fundamental point that this day is NOT ABOUT SWITZERLAND, but about gender inequality IN THE WORLD!

There is a reason it is called INTERNATIONAL Women's Day and not SWISS Women's Day.

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I don’t think this is supposed to be a competition. You could name dozens of things women are disadvantaged in, it would still not make things disappear were men are at a disadvantage. No offense, but in my opinion the fact that you call this whining shows who doesn’t’ want to discuss this topic properly (your words).
I call it whining because that's what it is. Women are - again, GLOBALLY - not even remotely close to having equal rights to men. I don't care if in individual countries, de-facto equality is achieved or not. This day, this discussion, is not about Switzerland or Europe or any other Western country, it is about large-scale inequality issues that you can choose to ignore all you want and insist on that stupid "poor men"-blablah. That doesn't make them any less of a fact. In the grand scheme of things, women are worth nothing in this world.

But since you and others keep bringing up Switzerland: no, women do not have equal rights to men in this country and no I don't care if men have two or three disadvantages towards twenty, thirty aspects in which women are still at a substantial disadvantage. It goes without saying that it's much better than it used to be, but it is still a far cry from perfect and much of what is going on is lip service rather than anything else. Women's liberation - as every similar type of liberation movement - was and is only possible at the expense of others and that's simply how the world works. Something always has to give. I have never and will never refute that any type of fighting discrimination - be it gender, race, age, religion, whatever - has an inherent risk of turning into bias and discrimination on the other end. I have also never and will never refute that men had to give a little to make women's liberation possible. But at the end of the day, that is a small price to pay for a substantially better outcome for BOTH men and women.

Last edited by Samaire13; 26.02.2015 at 23:21.
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  #56  
Old 26.02.2015, 23:01
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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maybe because March 8 is a Sunday???

However, March19 (Fathers Day) rarely falls on a Sunday, but it's still a public holiday!

Tom
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Old 27.02.2015, 00:16
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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You have missed the fundamental point that this day is NOT ABOUT SWITZERLAND, but about gender inequality IN THE WORLD!

There is a reason it is called INTERNATIONAL Women's Day and not SWISS Women's Day.
No it isn't. But i precisely answered OP's original question: "So what's up with that? Why is IWD a non-event for the Swiss?". -qed-


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I call it whining because that's what it is. Women are - again, GLOBALLY - not even remotely close to having equal rights to men. I don't care if in individual countries, de-facto equality is achieved or not. This day, this discussion, is not about Switzerland or Europe or any other Western country, it is about large-scale inequality issues that you can choose to ignore all you want and insist on that stupid "poor men"-blablah. That doesn't make them any less of a fact. In the grand scheme of things, women are worth nothing in this world.

But since you and others keep bringing up Switzerland: no, women do not have equal rights to men in this country and no I don't care if men have two or three disadvantages towards twenty, thirty aspects in which women are still at a substantial disadvantage. It goes without saying that it's much better than it used to be, but it is still a far cry from perfect and much of what is going on is lip service rather than anything else. Women's liberation - as every similar type of liberation movement - was and is only possible at the expense of others and that's simply how the world works. Something always has to give. I have never and will never refute that any type of fighting discrimination - be it gender, race, age, religion, whatever - has an inherent risk of turning into bias and discrimination on the other end. I have also never and will never refute that men had to give a little to make women's liberation possible. But at the end of the day, that is a small price to pay for a substantially better outcome for BOTH men and women.
Besides lip service: A lot of words for saying nothing. But what about "to wipe, first of all, in front of your own door!?" ... as we like to say!
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  #58  
Old 27.02.2015, 00:19
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Even though I basically agree with what you said, you do not honestly think that being a ring card girl is an advantage for women? You could have picked far better examples where men are at a disadvatage, for example military service in many countries or jobs where women are preferred for political reasons or quota for women.
No to be fair it's a crap example, but to be honest I was trying to think of a better one and couldn't come with one which perhaps shows that women do have a tougher time of it in the workplace!
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  #59  
Old 27.02.2015, 00:26
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Your point being?

Of course it MUST be because women are being preferred, right? Of course it can't be for ANY other reason. That is the ONLY explanation.



You have got to be kidding me.

Also, you might want to use another job as an example.
You see it's that sort of ranting, raving and wild shrieking, with hands waving wildly that really cements the picture of someone as a green-haired-Socialist-Worker-selling 1970's style feminist nutjob that does the movement absolutely no credit whatsoever. If you gave just slightly reasoned arguments in just a mildly more sensible tone, I am sure you would put your arguments across eloquently and with meaning.

Instead your just coming across as a loon.
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Old 27.02.2015, 00:48
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Re: International Women's Day: (not) worth celebrating?

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Also, you might want to use another job as an example.
On that note, I also strongly advise against using examples from the education sector.
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