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  #61  
Old 28.02.2015, 00:46
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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It's larger than most US states that I've lived in or near.

And with a lower population density.

Tom
Only 5 states satisfy the hard criteria. Be very careful how you define "near".
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  #62  
Old 28.02.2015, 01:52
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

Without the frontaliers, there would have been nobody in Confiserie Schneider to serve me with the best ever Schoggiweggli as I made my way in full costume to start the day's Fasnacht activity.

cheers.
Nick.
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  #63  
Old 28.02.2015, 06:43
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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Without the frontaliers, there would have been nobody in Confiserie Schneider to serve me with the best ever Schoggiweggli as I made my way in full costume to start the day's Fasnacht activity.

cheers.
Nick.


THIS
would be the result


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  #64  
Old 28.02.2015, 09:04
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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I actually feel sorry for the frontaliers.

They work for less than somebody living in CH, they get a fortune back home but it's a crappy country, health care - free but crap, you are feeding the bums and lazy folk who are sucking the government tit and don't want to work, you get to spend 4 hours a day in traffic in your car, you also live near the border where prices are higher than the rest of the country so what do you get? If you get sacked you don't get CH unemployment money 80% but you get the French one which will be substantially lower and inline with French wages. So in reality you can't buy a house etc because you have no security to pay your loan once you stop working in CH.

A very small portion of your tax goes to CH. You don't get C permit or citizenship. You can never integrate in CH.

French people REFUSE to live in GVA not because of expensive flats or difficult to find good homes but JUST BECAUSE they will get UNBELIEVABLE money compared to what they would get in France for the same job. They don't see more than their noses that this is not good for them or their family on the long run.

Anyway, if you like spending your mornings and evenings in your car listening to the traffic report fine by me
Couldn't agree more. Living in a foreign country has a lot of implications. If frontaliers only want to benefit from the $$$ advantages (which aren't actually that much at least in the Pays de Gex), they shall bear with the consequences in terms of health & unemployment insurances, traffic, social reputation, etc.
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  #65  
Old 28.02.2015, 09:23
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

Aren't the Swiss living over the border in France treated to a similar rethoric? Issues with retirement payments, health insurance, kids not being able to come to Swiss schools, hospital issues etc? I'm sure there are some Swiss frontaliers that have plenty to say on the subject too.
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  #66  
Old 28.02.2015, 10:48
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

Those people make me laught loudly.

They just forget history. Geneva area is made by the people who live around its border. Without them, Geneva would just be nothing.

If there's a problem, it's the people who come from far away (not the expats, of course, but the french coming from marseille, Paris, Brest and who take jobs from the real *frontaliers*. but now, it's perhaps the only solution these guys have, to have some kind of not too poor life.
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  #67  
Old 28.02.2015, 10:55
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

More to the point, we would lose these chaps:




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THIS
would be the result


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  #68  
Old 28.02.2015, 11:28
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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Only 5 states satisfy the hard criteria. Be very careful how you define "near".
How did you come up with 5?

CT, DE, HI, MD, MA,NH,NJ,RI,VT are all smaller.

Tom
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Old 28.02.2015, 11:32
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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Not really, no. And MCG is far more straightforward in naming their scapegoat. The SVP/UDC is softer and goes federal, the MCG is a local island phenomenon reflecting the interests of the municipalities outside of the actual city of Geneva and nothing else. In the Canton and Republique, the city votes very differently. The trafic situation is typical: the villages around the city block every solution involving expention of urban areas or any infrastuctural change to face increasing trafic. The canton does therefore everything to reduce trafic in and out the city but the commuting needs are irreductable in these context. I understand that the people of those villages don't want to change anything to their nice surroundings, but so do people in any city in the world. It doesn't matter that there is a frontier inbetween, it's a classic of any urban development even without the border. Making it a question foreigners/city is just a big lie. Ask Londoners.
These are wise words. My origal rant was that a discours refering to frontaliers as "racaille" (scum) or a disease that needs to be eradicated should not be tolerated. They even want to produce stickers to use for businesses so they can say they are frontalier-free although no business will be able/dare to use it; it starts to smell of a darker period in history. For me there is a limit to what democratic debate can tolerate. But no political party in Geneva raises a finger. That is the problem for me. This way you can push it each time a bit further. I also notice that not too many on the forum seem to care or know about local politics in Geneva, despite living on the politically-correct side of the border.
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  #70  
Old 28.02.2015, 11:44
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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My origal rant was that a discours refering to frontaliers as "racaille" (scum) or a disease that needs to be eradicated.
People who don't know the very specific situation in Geneva make the huuuuge mistake to compare MCG with the SVP in their surrounding. There is nothing more wrong than this analogy. There is nothing in commun between Zurich SVP or Basel political life and Geneva. The rest of Switzerland overestimate immensely the possible similarities Geneva might have with the rest of the country.
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  #71  
Old 28.02.2015, 12:19
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

Maybe we do follow but think the MCG are twats so no point in wasting breath arguing.
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  #72  
Old 28.02.2015, 13:13
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

Thank you for entertaining us with this thread. As usual we are served a soup of ignorance stirred by posters motivated by jealousy, hatred against french or swiss. Let's look at the facts:

- 2013 elections in Geneva: MCG score is 19.23%

- 2014 european elections in France: neighboring departements vote for Front National like Ain (28.54%), Haute-Savoie (23.41%), Jura and Doubs (26%).

What are Front National's arguments in the campaign? Insecurity, expensive cost of life...due to swiss expatriates living in those departements. Read the arguments of the Haute-Savoie FN deputy Dominique Martin.

The racist nature of Front National is not a mystery but yet no one here files a complaint about its racist campaign.... because you just want to have high salary in Switzerland and low cost of life in France. But remember FN has a larger population support than MCG!

You are all an unwitting pawn in the power game of FN or MCG....just keep yelling at each other with selfish arguments.
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  #73  
Old 28.02.2015, 13:19
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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You are all an unwitting pawn in the power game of FN or MCG....just keep yelling at each other with selfish arguments.
Not really. Guess who wrote:
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It doesn't matter that there is a frontier inbetween, it's a classic of any urban development even without the border. Making it a question foreigners/city is just a big lie. Ask Londoners.


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Let's look at the facts:

- 2013 elections in Geneva: MCG score is 19.23%.
... you don't give the results of UDC? 10,3%. You like facts, me too, so here is one:

19,23 + 10,3 = 29,53%

Last edited by Faltrad; 28.02.2015 at 13:29.
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  #74  
Old 28.02.2015, 14:03
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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Thank you for entertaining us with this thread. As usual we are served a soup of ignorance stirred by posters motivated by jealousy, hatred against french or swiss. Let's look at the facts:

- 2013 elections in Geneva: MCG score is 19.23%

- 2014 european elections in France: neighboring departements vote for Front National like Ain (28.54%), Haute-Savoie (23.41%), Jura and Doubs (26%).

What are Front National's arguments in the campaign? Insecurity, expensive cost of life...due to swiss expatriates living in those departements. Read the arguments of the Haute-Savoie FN deputy Dominique Martin.

The racist nature of Front National is not a mystery but yet no one here files a complaint about its racist campaign.... because you just want to have high salary in Switzerland and low cost of life in France. But remember FN has a larger population support than MCG!

You are all an unwitting pawn in the power game of FN or MCG....just keep yelling at each other with selfish arguments.
You are making valid points, FN is becoming more acceptable in France since Marie Le Pen took power although your numbers are for European elections (which was mainly a national vote against Hollande) and the Geneva ones for local elections. If you look at local elections in the Haute Savoie for example, you'll see that FN is making some inroads but still only has a handful of deputies.
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  #75  
Old 28.02.2015, 14:30
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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How did you come up with 5?

CT, DE, HI, MD, MA,NH,NJ,RI,VT are all smaller.

Tom
You're ignoring your 2nd criterion, pop density.
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  #76  
Old 28.02.2015, 14:32
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

What is making right-wing parties generally more acceptable and overall stronger in public opinion (and I say this as an SP-supporter), is that who is not touched at all by a some kind of distortion in negative aspects with regard to immigration and over-the-border working,
doesn't give a damn about it, not ignoring only that problems and pervert effects do exist, but denying those who suffer from those effects every right for expression (e.g. stigmatizing them as nazis. Please, lables stating that a business respects minimum wages and local standards is nothing like "Kauft nicht bei Juden", and UDC/SVP is nothing like FN. It's extremely stupid to draw such a parallelism).
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  #77  
Old 28.02.2015, 16:56
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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THIS
would be the result


Is that a picture of Zurich Bahnhof?
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  #78  
Old 28.02.2015, 19:21
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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How did you come up with 5?

CT, DE, HI, MD, MA,NH,NJ,RI,VT are all smaller.

Tom

CT DE MD NH RI alright, but the population density of DE HI Maine, VT is not as high
Difficult about NJ. Yes the Newark area is densily populated but if you drive up from Philadelphia to NYC you AFTER having got accross the NJ border drive through almost unpopulated Areas


When driving around in the USA you get the Impression that many Areas are highly populated UNTIL you realize that most houses are singe family houses while most houses in urban Areas of West/South-Germany, Switzerland and Northern Italy are multi-family houses with at least 4 and up to 30 different parties involved
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Old 28.02.2015, 19:28
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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If there's a problem, it's the people who come from far away (not the expats, of course, but the french coming from marseille, Paris, Brest and who take jobs from the real *frontaliers*. but now, it's perhaps the only solution these guys have, to have some kind of not too poor life.
I'm guessing the irony of this statement is lost on you.



French border workers are incredibly unpopular in Luxembourg, as well. oddly enough, however, nobody seems to mind the Belgian border workers (unless they insist on speaking only French) or the German border workers.

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Old 28.02.2015, 19:40
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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People who don't know the very specific situation in Geneva make the huuuuge mistake to compare MCG with the SVP in their surrounding. There is nothing more wrong than this analogy. There is nothing in commun between Zurich SVP or Basel political life and Geneva. The rest of Switzerland overestimate immensely the possible similarities Geneva might have with the rest of the country.

YES AND NO. For example, the FDP in Zürich is centre-right while the FDP in Luzern is left-of-centre. The CVP in Zürich is centrist but the CVP in Luzern is centre-right. As I outlined above, Geneva differs even from Vaud due to its history, but bear in mind that Geneva was allied with Bern centuries before it joined the confederation


And again, I might compare the MCG to the Lega dei Ticinesi, in quite many ways.


YOUR comparison btw. is rubbish in so far as if you compare the SVP in the various parts of the Canton of Zürich and the SVP in Thurgau, and the SVP in St. Gallen, it is not the same.


Geneva ? My favourite uncle in about 1925 emigrated from Stein am Rhein -- Schaffhausen to Geneva, lived for years in Rotterdam, London and Budapest but then since 1946 again in Geneva until his death in 1991 -- and on many many many visits to him discussed GVA matters --- and since then often with a Cousin who (originally Stein am Rhein / Zürich / Basel) has his residence in Coppet VD but defacto lives in Genêva -- quite some insight, even if contradictory at times ------ and YES, both my uncle le directeur SGS Surveillance DID correct me and my super intelligent Cousin -- a former GenevaUniversity CERN chap DO correct me on notions about their beloved and hated Geneva


as my uncle and his wife and his daughter are no longer alive and quite different people now live there I can happily tell the address I still can write without looking at anything Fam. C... S.., Rue François Grast 18, 1208 Geneva
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