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  #101  
Old 03.03.2015, 21:13
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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The small municipalities outside of the city of Geneva have never accepted and will never accept being a part of an urban greater ensemble. They want to live in the country side at the doorstep of Geneva city. But the most voters are lower class people who can't compete with educated employees from abroad, near the frontier or not.

Fact is, it's impossible to live in Geneva on a normal salary for unskilled work anymore. But the MCG won't change anything to the structural reasons why it has come so far. Everybody is a liberal in Geneva, so the lower educated work force will loose no matter who wins what election when and for how long. The frontalier rhetoric is just a tool in the hand of people who have to other tool to get elected. Why they so want to be elected? Well... ask them what they would be doing for living if they weren't elected, that explains a lot, not every thing but a lot.
Yes, but it's tragic that a canton can be held hostage because you need a majority of local voters to agree with your urban plans. This way you cannot build any large projects that would be beneficial for the future of all. These things should be decided at cantonal level not with a veto at community level. My wife comes from Doel, a small village in the countryside not far from the port of Antwerp in Belgium. The village has basically been entirely expropriated and all habitants had to sell their houses to make room for the expansion of the port of Antwerp. I actually think they went too far in that case but in Switzerland it looks like no big projects are possible at all. I remember a referendum not too long ago in Geneva about cutting a few trees close to the lake, something related to a WHO building.
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  #102  
Old 04.03.2015, 08:45
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

Is this not big enough?
http://ge.ch/amenagement/praille-acacias-vernets
Potentiels:
11'000 logements - 11'000 emplois

Can't say I know anything about the plans but it says it'll be a great place to live & work
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  #103  
Old 04.03.2015, 09:26
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

Geneva attracts a lot of jobs which require skillsets not present among the local population. At the same time it has the highest unemployment rate in Switzerland.
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  #104  
Old 04.03.2015, 09:32
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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Geneva attracts a lot of jobs which require skillsets not present among the local population. At the same time it has the highest unemployment rate in Switzerland.



The skillsets required are heavily present among the local popuiation


the unemployment rate can only be attributed to the local mentality
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  #105  
Old 04.03.2015, 09:38
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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Cave-dwelling makes a comeback!

Tom
No doubt you would be first in the queue to move in
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  #106  
Old 04.03.2015, 10:26
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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The skillsets required are heavily present among the local popuiation


the unemployment rate can only be attributed to the local mentality
Please elaborate
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  #107  
Old 04.03.2015, 19:19
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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Please elaborate

Look at the matter the other way round. Geneva is one of the richest and most successful states of the Union, and with about half the population has a number of company headquarters comparable with Zürich ... but already in the 60ies and 70ies and 80ies that Republic on the Rhône had a very high unemployment rate. I often discussed this with my uncle in Geneva when sitting in his Apartment in the Rue François Grast 18, and he always kept to the opinion that many Genevois very simply are too snobbist and do not accept Jobs below their social rank. And while People from Zürich or Basel accept Jobs elsewhere and commute, many Genevois are too noble to do so

Last edited by Wollishofener; 07.03.2015 at 15:31.
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  #108  
Old 04.03.2015, 19:38
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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I wouldn't like frontaliers either if I lived in a border area. The traffic is ridiculous in some places, and if you're going to have the benefit of a Swiss salary it might be nice to contribute it back into the economy as well.
Quick question to those who live around the German or French border.... While Italian frontalieri get higher salaries than those in Italy, they also often get lower salaries than those living in Switzerland due to the lower cost of living (at least at my last company). Is this normal elsewhere or maybe an exception at my previous employer?

If people are actually getting lower salaries based on where they live (or their nationality), it is hard to go after them. After all, they still might not be able to afford to live in Switzerland (like my former co-workers). Rather, they should go after the Swiss companies who pay them less money! This would then at least encourage people to move here and give more tax to the CH government.
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  #109  
Old 05.03.2015, 09:28
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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... but already in the 60ies and 70ies and 80ies that Republic on the Rhône had a very high unemployment rate.
because of a lack of skills among the local population
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  #110  
Old 06.03.2015, 17:27
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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Rather like Diagonal Mar in Barcelona
About 90% of the Spanish coastline looks a bit like that.

Meanwhile people like myself try and seek out the few bits that don't.



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  #111  
Old 06.03.2015, 18:55
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

Your second to last sentence makes no sense.


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I actually feel sorry for the frontaliers.

They work for less than somebody living in CH, they get a fortune back home but it's a crappy country, health care - free but crap, you are feeding the bums and lazy folk who are sucking the government tit and don't want to work, you get to spend 4 hours a day in traffic in your car, you also live near the border where prices are higher than the rest of the country so what do you get? If you get sacked you don't get CH unemployment money 80% but you get the French one which will be substantially lower and inline with French wages. So in reality you can't buy a house etc because you have no security to pay your loan once you stop working in CH.

A very small portion of your tax goes to CH. You don't get C permit or citizenship. You can never integrate in CH.

French people REFUSE to live in GVA not because of expensive flats or difficult to find good homes but JUST BECAUSE they will get UNBELIEVABLE money compared to what they would get in France for the same job. They don't see more than their noses that this is not good for them or their family on the long run.

Anyway, if you like spending your mornings and evenings in your car listening to the traffic report fine by me
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  #112  
Old 06.03.2015, 19:15
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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I would do this where there is currently countryside yet very close to Geneva (5 km).


And where will we get our wonderful local wine from? Import from South Africa?
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  #113  
Old 06.03.2015, 19:20
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

For Music Day in June, 3 communes on the Swiss side of Geneva Canton and 3 communes on the French side are joining forces, organising a massive picnic party to promote friendship on both sides of the border and to go against the trend of national politics.


There are still some intelligent people around!
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  #114  
Old 06.03.2015, 20:11
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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I wouldn't like frontaliers either if I lived in a border area. The traffic is ridiculous in some places, and if you're going to have the benefit of a Swiss salary it might be nice to contribute it back into the economy as well.
I take it that people who work in Switzerland but do not reside there are not required to pay a sort of commuter tax?
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  #115  
Old 06.03.2015, 20:12
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

Dissolve all the borders! The notion of 'countries' is making less and less sense in a steadily globalizing world. It is a time for unification of the human race, not protecting outdated geographical divisions.
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  #116  
Old 06.03.2015, 21:07
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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Dissolve all the borders! The notion of 'countries' is making less and less sense in a steadily globalizing world. It is a time for unification of the human race, not protecting outdated geographical divisions.


That's Vladimir Putin's view!
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  #117  
Old 07.03.2015, 05:07
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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And where will we get our wonderful local wine from? Import from South Africa?
Even worse, "import" from canton Vaud
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  #118  
Old 07.03.2015, 05:15
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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And where will we get our wonderful local wine from? Import from South Africa?


Local wine is produced in the Region Genevoise just accross the border, and thanks to some fairly old agreements can be sold under the name of GAMAY DE GENEVE. And excellent wines are produced down the Rhône and in the Languedoc-Provence Region, but of course in the Bourgogne (Burgunderland) ---
and the Canton of Vaud is NOT to stop its rich wine production, and GAMAY DE ROMANDIE usually is from the Vaud (Waadtland)
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  #119  
Old 07.03.2015, 05:36
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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because of a lack of skills among the local population

No, unless you mean the skill to accept work where it is. The local population in Geneva had a higher educational level than the one of Lausanne etc and lived in a city with a multitude of corporate headquarters , Some aspects --
> when Mum in 1937 told Genevois that she was to go to Paris for a 15 months education in Haute Couture, she was told "" but Geneva is better and cleaner and more elegant and more of-the-world than Paris --- without any joking
> real Genevois regard their City as the CENTRE OF THE EARTH and their scientific theory is that the earth revolves around Geneva
> when the Dad of schoolfriend François fled back home from Léopoldville in 1960, his skills were not appreciated in his town of origin (GVA) and so he continued to the town of his wive (ZRH) and found a good Job almost immediately (alright, not immediately for him, and he had to forget about a private driver but accept the tram driver of VBZ line nr.7, no private gardener, and his wife had to do the gardening and the cooking and the household herself)
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  #120  
Old 07.03.2015, 11:02
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Re: Fed up with the anti-frontalier rethoric in Geneva

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Local wine is produced in the Region Genevoise just accross the border, and thanks to some fairly old agreements can be sold under the name of GAMAY DE GENEVE. And excellent wines are produced down the Rhône and in the Languedoc-Provence Region, but of course in the Bourgogne (Burgunderland) ---
and the Canton of Vaud is NOT to stop its rich wine production, and GAMAY DE ROMANDIE usually is from the Vaud (Waadtland)




I can assure you that our lovely local wine is grown and made in the village and not in France or anywhere else.
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