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  #141  
Old 03.03.2015, 14:47
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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So so true.

Nicotine is a drug delivery system and those who smoke can be classed as drug addicts, and there's one thing I noticed about addicts is that they are the most selfish people you will ever meet. Because of their addiction, they will do things that they normally wouldn't I.e pregnant woman smoking and endangering their unborn child, not only is this act selfish but immoral.

Why can't they just ban cigarettes altogether,!but slowly, starting with a ban on smoking in public places. by dong this, they will be doing all smokers and non smokers a big favour.
A bit blunt but true And in civilized countries (i.e. rest of Europe) smoking IS BANNED in public places such as public transport.

And citing Wikipedia (which also cites some scientific sources):

Nicotine is a potent parasympathomimetic alkaloid found in the nightshade family of plants (Solanaceae) and a stimulant drug. It is a nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (nAChR) agonist,except at nAChRα9 and nAChRα10 where it acts as an antagonist. It is made in the roots of and accumulates in the leaves of the nightshade family of plants. It constitutes approximately 0.6–3.0% of the dry weight of tobacco[3] and is present in the range of 2–7 g/kg of various edible plants. It functions as an antiherbivore chemical; consequently, nicotine was widely used as an insecticide in the past and nicotine analogs such as imidacloprid are currently widely used.
In lesser doses (an average cigarette yields about 2 mg of absorbed nicotine), the substance acts as a stimulant in mammals, while high amounts (50–100 mg) can be harmful. This stimulant effect is likely to be a major contributing factor to the dependence-forming properties of tobacco smoking.

Frankly, a person who uses an insecticide as an excuse for a bit of workout or tea :P cannot be called a smart person

Now, do yer worst master groaner! :>

Last edited by JakubB; 03.03.2015 at 17:28.
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  #142  
Old 03.03.2015, 15:00
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

I know one restaurant in Zug which has smoking and non-smoking sections. However, the door to the non-smoking section is always open and the staff who serve there pass through the non-smoking section on their way to the kitchen.
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  #143  
Old 03.03.2015, 15:21
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Although when there were no campaigns against smoking and it was socially acceptable everywhere, the uptake by teenagers was higher than it is now.
The story behind how smoking was made socially acceptable for women is rather interesting.

The brains behind it was Edward Bernays, relative of Freud.

The method for selling cigis is pretty much the same as most other products. And people who consume cigis have gone through a very similar process to someone who buys a car.

The methods used to sell cigis is rather interesting. and labeling someone as an idiot etc for consuming them simply highlights how ignorant some are of the art of manipulation.
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  #144  
Old 03.03.2015, 15:23
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Do you smoke now, Tom? Are you currently a smoker?
Cigars only, and rarely, sometimes months or years in between.

Tom
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  #145  
Old 03.03.2015, 15:26
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Yes! There are trashbin with smoke ashtrays right next to every entrace of every building in ETH/Uni, and it's like tellng the students:you are welcome to smoke right here! I really wish they could just put them like 10 metersaway so I can at least avoid the smoke....
It's less of a problem at ETH, but I've noticed the Uni has a ridiculous number of smokers worshiping at the shrine of the tobacco receptacle, especially at the Psych/computerScience building in Oerlikon. They file away on mass in seminar breaks and come back smelling like a chimney. Truely bizarre behaviour, smoking rates tend to go down with education level, do these people drop smoking as soon as they have a phd in their back pocket?
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  #146  
Old 03.03.2015, 15:44
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Absolute nonsense.

while I've never tried heroin, I've never found nicotine or cocaine to be addictive.

Tom
'That's what they all say'- said my friend who was Drugs Officer for one of the large counties in UK (others I know (edited ) had quite a few stories about the percentage of *ankers from the City of London who lost the country billions recently, and who were handling billions when high as pie on cocaine- cocaine being the drug of the rich and the 'successful').

Last edited by Odile; 03.03.2015 at 16:26.
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  #147  
Old 03.03.2015, 16:07
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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'That's what they all say'- said my friend who was Drugs Officer for one of the large counties in UK (she had quite a few stories about the percentage of *ankers from the City of London who lost the country billions recently, and who were handling billions when high as pie on cocaine- cocaine being the drug of the rich and the 'successful').
don't people in such positions have a type of confidentiality clause in their work contracts?
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  #148  
Old 03.03.2015, 16:34
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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'That's what they all say'- said my friend who was Drugs Officer for one of the large counties in UK (others I know (edited ) had quite a few stories about the percentage of *ankers from the City of London who lost the country billions recently, and who were handling billions when high as pie on cocaine- cocaine being the drug of the rich and the 'successful').
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don't people in such positions have a type of confidentiality clause in their work contracts?
What all this have to do with smoking in Switzerland?
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  #149  
Old 03.03.2015, 16:43
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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What all this have to do with smoking in Switzerland?
Nothing really... just yet another example of Oldie rambling on at length about a topic she seemingly knows sod-all about. Business as usual.

Last edited by Richdog; 03.03.2015 at 16:53.
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  #150  
Old 03.03.2015, 16:46
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

Addiction has no borders, it is the same here, as it is there or anywhere. As you well know- and has nothing to do with age either.
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  #151  
Old 03.03.2015, 17:39
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Because nicotine is more addictive than heroin and cocaine put together- that's why! I was heart broken a couple of weeks ago to find that both oldest daughter and sil, who had managed to stop for a few months due to their young kids begging them- had both started again. And now have to face the angst and pain of stopping all over again- it is VERY hard to give up. I wonder how those who sell cigarettes (and know full well the dangers, not 'just' lung cancer, but throat cancer, pancreatic cancer, and so many more- amputated legs and limbs, heart attacks, strokes, etc, etc, etc) feel when THEIR KIDS START SMOKING!!!

It is nasty nasty stuff and hugely addictive- physically, psychologically and emotionally.
Not 100X, but Nicotine still is at the top wrt dependence.
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  #152  
Old 03.03.2015, 17:45
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Not 100X, but Nicotine still is at the top wrt dependence.
If everyone who smoked cigarettes took heroin on a daily basis, the graph would look very different, and society would be in shambles. Proportionally, only a tiny number of people take very hard drugs vs the number who smoke tobacco.
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  #153  
Old 03.03.2015, 17:53
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

Digressing a bit- but the MaryJane of the 60s is very different addiction wise to the current skunk.

I know I am old and I talk rubbish... so I will quote from the current BMJ and a recent Lancet- which I happen to read yesterday.

High potency cannabis is associated with tripled risk of psychosis, study indicates. (Ingrid Torjesen)... and the risk is 5 fold in people who smoke this form (skunk-like) of the drug every day. (Lancet Psychiatry).

Conclusion:

When a GP or psychiatrist askjs if a patient uses cannabis, it's not helpful- it's like asking whether someone drinks. As with alcohol, the relevant questions are how often and what type of cannabis. This gives more information about whether the user is at risk of mental health problems.

Last edited by Odile; 03.03.2015 at 19:26.
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  #154  
Old 03.03.2015, 17:54
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Not 100X, but Nicotine still is at the top wrt dependence.
Dependence might be so strong for the nicotine because smoking is accepted by societies while taking heroine is not. Thus people do it for years and years which makes the dependence rooted in the smoker's brain. Heroin kills very quickly so there is no time to develop such bond (due to higher tolerance and need to increase the dosage to get the same effect).
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  #155  
Old 03.03.2015, 18:02
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Dependence might be so strong for the nicotine because smoking is accepted by societies while taking heroine is not. Thus people do it for years and years which makes the dependence rooted in the smokers brain. Heroin kills very quickly so there is no time to develope such bond (due to higher tolerance and need to increase the dosage to get the same effect).
Agree about the nicotine part, it becomes so accepted that the brain completely normalizes it as no different to any other regular activity.

Herois, however, can be used for decades as long as people don't overdose... Channel 4 last night had an addict who had been a user for almost 20 years.

Either way, nicotine is orders of magnitude easier to stop than heroin, as nictoine allows you to live a normal and functional life (barring eventual health issues), whereas being a heroin addict is almost completely debilitating to living a normal life. Not to mention, not having a cigarette for a week make you irritable before you go out and get some relatively cheaply, whereas not having a heroin fix can make you want to rob your own grandmother for the proportionally high cost it takes to get a single fix.

It's a very obvious difference.

Last edited by Richdog; 03.03.2015 at 18:55.
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  #156  
Old 03.03.2015, 18:19
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Agree about the nicotine part, it becomes so accepted that the brain completely normalizes it as no different to any other regular activity.

Herois, however, can be used for decades as long as people don't overdose... Channel 4 last night had an addict who had been a user for almost 20 years.

Either way, nicotine is orders of magnitude easier to stop than heroin, as nictoine allows you to live a normal and functional life (barring eventual health issues), whereas being a heroin addict is almost completely debilitating to living a normal life. not to mention, not having a cigarette for a week make you irritable before you go out and get some relativel cheaply, not having a heroin fix can make you want to rob your own grandmother for the proportionally high cost it takes to get a single fix.

It's a very obvious difference.
Yes it is true about the heroin. But in order to feel the kick one has to use more and more. There are some cases of prolonged heroin use but, in general, it ends quicker usually. In the nicotine it will last for years because apparently also the act of smoking gives some pleasure. Plus smokers socialize this way as well. And you can break out of H dependence by taking smaller and smaller doses during the week or so. With the nicotine it does not work this way.
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  #157  
Old 03.03.2015, 18:34
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Yes it is true about the heroin. But in order to feel the kick one has to use more and more. There are some cases of prolonged heroin use but, in general, it ends quicker usually. In the nicotine it will last for years because apparently also the act of smoking gives some pleasure. Plus smokers socialize this way as well. And you can break out of H dependence by taking smaller and smaller doses during the week or so. With the nicotine it does not work this way.
Actually that's exactly how NRT works in the form of gum albeit over a longer time period than a week.
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Old 03.03.2015, 18:35
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Actually that's exactly how NRT works in the form of gum albeit over a longer time period than a week.
Yes, that is what I meant. Longer time period
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Old 03.03.2015, 19:25
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Conclusion:

When a GP or psychiatrist askjs if a patient uses cannabis, it's not helpful- it's like asking whether someone drinks. As with alcohol, the relevant questions are how often and what type of cannabis. This gives more information about whether the user is at risk of mental health problems.[/I]
I know someone who smokes cannabis and he suffers from mental illness, which pretty much ruined his life and the lives of his family and the people around him. I know some smart a*se will quote that Cannabis is medicinal or its weaker than tobacco, but certain chemicals have specific reactions to certain individuals. Ever since the day he started smoking cannabis, he never was the same again.

I know that the average smoker will have an arsenal of excuses for their addiction, stressful job, car fumes cause more harm than smoking, trying to lose weight or blame their family for them taking up smoking due to family stress blah blah blah. But at the end of the day, I would have some respect for them if they stopped with their excuses and just admit that they are a very weak individual with very weak willpower to quit their addiction and asked for help in stopping their addiction.
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Old 03.03.2015, 19:37
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Those who sell cigarettes, will, when their Kids start Smoking, blame the teachers, the school-System, the Society, the municipal Administration, etc but NEVER accept that they themselves are part of the problem
For this reason, I don't invest in a FTSE tracker fund as the FTSE is made up of companies like British American Tobacco, and opt out of pension scheme as I don't want pension fund manager to in any way out my money in these companies. Nor will I work for them or any companies that is associated with them. These companies are selling poison, something that is harmful for their consumers health. How immoral can these companies be, their profits are blood money.
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