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  #161  
Old 03.03.2015, 20:50
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

I have never once had anyone come up to me when i am smoking, whether it is at the bus stop, train platform, terrace of a restaurant and actually asked me if i could please put my ciggie out.

Perhaps the places i frequent are more "smoker" friendly.

And as i have said and repeated before, i do respect non smokers. Maybe, it's about time they respected me and my rights too.

I can't wait till the terraces open. Then i can take in some rays, enjoy my drink and my cigarette.

But, as usual, i shall ask the people around me if my smoking annoys them. If i hear a yes - i shall change tables. Or stick my finger up to see which way the wind is blowing. But why should i, there will be ashtrays on every table.

You non smokers have had all Winter sitting inside, while we huddle outside. Now is our time!! Today it was 12 degrees in Geneva, i sat in the sun with my jeans rolled up on a terrace and enjoyed the banter with my smoking and non smoking friends.

I think that those that do the pseudo cough cough are just being silly.

And those of you that arrived after smoking was banned inside - count yourselves lucky. You'd have a hell of a lot more to complain about.

Last edited by Patsycat; 03.03.2015 at 21:04.
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  #162  
Old 03.03.2015, 21:32
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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I have never once had anyone come up to me when i am smoking, whether it is at the bus stop, train platform, terrace of a restaurant and actually asked me if i could please put my ciggie out.
Because in reality, we're a lot more polite in real life than we pretend to be on this forum.

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But, as usual, i shall ask the people around me if my smoking annoys them. If i hear a yes - i shall change tables. Or stick my finger up to see which way the wind is blowing. But why should i, there will be ashtrays on every table.
Make your mind up. Are you a courteous smoker or not?

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You non smokers have had all Winter sitting inside, while we huddle outside. Now is our time!! Today it was 12 degrees in Geneva, i sat in the sun with my jeans rolled up on a terrace and enjoyed the banter with my smoking and non smoking friends.
Okay, you're not. Thought so.
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  #163  
Old 03.03.2015, 22:17
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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I have never once had anyone come up to me when i am smoking, whether it is at the bus stop, train platform, terrace of a restaurant and actually asked me if i could please put my ciggie out.
That's because the kind of miserable killjoys who constantly whinge about smoking aren't actually interested in making their lives slightly better in the here and now by politely asking you to move up a bit or by walking 5 metres to your windward side. No, this isn't enough. They want to BAN IT ALL FOR EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE FOR EVER AND EVER AND A DAY!!!! It isn't enough to just avoid a couple of whiffs of harmless smoke in the open air at 5 pm on a Tuesday afternoon. It has to be a nationwide, systemic, total, utter, all-encompassing ban which affects everyone, from the chap enjoying a late night fag on his balcony to the lads enjoying a shisha in a Lebanese restaurant to the woman who fancies a quick ciggy on the platform after knocking off work. THEY MUST ALL BE DENIED! EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM! FROM GENEVA TO SCUOL, FROM BASEL TO ZERMATT!!!!!

Miserable ****s.

But don't worry, because they'll get their turn when even more miserable ****s decide they want to ban alcohol and caffeine and anything else that brings anybody a smidgeon of pleasure.

What goes around comes around.
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  #164  
Old 03.03.2015, 22:26
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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It's less of a problem at ETH, but I've noticed the Uni has a ridiculous number of smokers worshiping at the shrine of the tobacco receptacle, especially at the Psych/computerScience building in Oerlikon. They file away on mass in seminar breaks and come back smelling like a chimney. Truely bizarre behaviour, smoking rates tend to go down with education level, do these people drop smoking as soon as they have a phd in their back pocket?
It is an interesting thing..I was an ER nurse at one point of my life, and it is bizarre how many people working in a medical field smoke. I think it points to stress coping management.

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Yes! There are trashbin with smoke ashtrays right next to every entrace of every building in ETH/Uni, and it's like tellng the students:you are welcome to smoke right here! I really wish they could just put them like 10 metersaway so I can at least avoid the smoke....
Dtto, it is bewildering how many people in edu field, who know that they give an example of correct behavior and are scrutinized, actually smoke right at the institution door.

Again, I think it might point to certain misguided stress coping management trait.

Same for coal miners..cops, etc. Stress.

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Cigars only, and rarely, sometimes months or years in between.

Tom
Tom, not every addiction is equal and not everyone's response to known addictive substances is equal.

We can list addictive "power" in all substances all we want, compare stats and mortality, and - we will not be any more smarter than when we just constate that people will respond differently in situations that for some require some soothing, ie use of addictive substances. For some it is just a curiosity or a one-off and they learn how to work with obstacles without relying on a supply of a substance that might offer an immediate and quick fix or distraction from what actually causes that anxious feeling we are trying to get rid off, or simple instant gratification we are unable to obtain less hazardously.

We all have different degree of an addiction streak in us. Some can get hooked on anything and really fast, since we use it as a stress coping mechanism. The choice is on us - workoholism, substance abuse, sex addicts, some people get hooked on love adrenaline and get needy for affection, some light up a cig, some buy jewelry, you name it.

It is not a secret nor news, but even when I drilled psy for years some time ago, the common therapy for an emergency addiction help was not a deep behavioral therapy since that takes long and that comes later. It was an addiction transfer, counting on that patient having a strong addictive personality streak, so another, less harmless addiction was offered to sooth for immediate relief (from alcoholism to running, from workaholism to Facebook, from cigs to chocolate, from shoppaholism to collecting something that costs nothing, etc.). Just shows that not everyone will seize the opportunity to get hooked (no matter on what it would be). It takes a certain personality with some kind of need who looks for a shortcut actually instead of addressing an issue directly but via some kind of substance help, or obsessive behavior pattern. The deep behavioral therapy addresses this particular escapist pattern, why it feels good to light up, why people keep drinking when they even do not have the cash for it nor to take care of their own kids, why people max out their credit cards on stuff they do not need without paying rent nor taxes, etc. Addiction is primarily a way to satisfy an inner craving...it is by definition very selfish, but people in deep trouble show so little control over their dysfunction, they are treated as sick. That is if they admit they need help. I do not think bashing does much. I really respect those who confront it, who genuinely and in an honest way try to understand their own behavior without over-simplifying it.

One thing I really miss about the US was how smoke free it largely is. But then again, people not controlling food intake or needing to sit and not move too much, is a similar kind of story, just smells less and doesn't expose me to a possible health hazard.

I do think that people are routine based creatures, lot of people find comfort in repeating certain rituals. The mess starts when those rituals happen to not be the best for those who seek them.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 03.03.2015 at 22:50.
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  #165  
Old 03.03.2015, 23:17
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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That's because the kind of miserable killjoys who constantly whinge about smoking aren't actually interested in making their lives slightly better in the here and now by politely asking you to move up a bit or by walking 5 metres to your windward side. No, this isn't enough. They want to BAN IT ALL FOR EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE FOR EVER AND EVER AND A DAY!!!! It isn't enough to just avoid a couple of whiffs of harmless smoke in the open air at 5 pm on a Tuesday afternoon. It has to be a nationwide, systemic, total, utter, all-encompassing ban which affects everyone, from the chap enjoying a late night fag on his balcony to the lads enjoying a shisha in a Lebanese restaurant to the woman who fancies a quick ciggy on the platform after knocking off work. THEY MUST ALL BE DENIED! EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM! FROM GENEVA TO SCUOL, FROM BASEL TO ZERMATT!!!!!

Miserable ****s.

But don't worry, because they'll get their turn when even more miserable ****s decide they want to ban alcohol and caffeine and anything else that brings anybody a smidgeon of pleasure.

What goes around comes around.
If smoking is so bloody wonderful then why aren't you doing it yourself?

I mean, look at the benefits and/or plus points:
  • It's not addictive.
  • It's totally safe.
  • It makes you smell nice.
  • It gives you fresh, minty breath.
  • It's good for your kids' lungs.
  • It makes food taste so much better.
  • It increases your lung capacity.
  • It hardens up your arteries making them nice and strong.
  • It makes you look cool and sophisticated.
  • It makes colds last much longer so you can stay off work longer.
  • Who needs two legs anyway?
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  #166  
Old 03.03.2015, 23:23
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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That's because the kind of miserable killjoys who constantly whinge about smoking aren't actually interested in making their lives slightly better in the here and now by politely asking you to move up a bit or by walking 5 metres to your windward side. No, this isn't enough. They want to BAN IT ALL FOR EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE FOR EVER AND EVER AND A DAY!!!! It isn't enough to just avoid a couple of whiffs of harmless smoke in the open air at 5 pm on a Tuesday afternoon. It has to be a nationwide, systemic, total, utter, all-encompassing ban which affects everyone, from the chap enjoying a late night fag on his balcony to the lads enjoying a shisha in a Lebanese restaurant to the woman who fancies a quick ciggy on the platform after knocking off work. THEY MUST ALL BE DENIED! EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM! FROM GENEVA TO SCUOL, FROM BASEL TO ZERMATT!!!!!

Miserable ****s.

But don't worry, because they'll get their turn when even more miserable ****s decide they want to ban alcohol and caffeine and anything else that brings anybody a smidgeon of pleasure.

What goes around comes around.
Well see how it goes, hey. Try to sit on a lovely terrasse with babies or young kids, and people smoking all around you (NO, there is not always a free table elsewhere with no one smoking... so you end up leaving, find another terrasse, and the same thing happen again).


OK come on Tom- NOTHING could make DB look cool and sophisticated, nought, zilch, de nana

Last edited by Odile; 03.03.2015 at 23:47.
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  #167  
Old 03.03.2015, 23:44
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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It isn't enough to just avoid a couple of whiffs of harmless smoke in the open air at 5 pm on a Tuesday afternoon.
What goes around comes around.
We were at the local Fasnacht the other Sunday afternoon.

Our youngest had been ill the whole previous week with a cough so bad that he kept vomiting during a coughing attack.
We tried to find somewhere where people weren't smoking incessantly and at last we found a clear spot but a group of about five young adults soon came and stood next to us and they all chain-smoked during the two hour procession.
Yes we could have moved again but by then we would have not found a spot where our kids could have seen everything.

That's the real world - not your one or two puffs and it's finished. Have you ever even seen someone smoke?
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  #168  
Old 03.03.2015, 23:48
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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One thing I really miss about the US was how smoke free it largely is.
And one thing that I DON'T miss is how PC the US has become.

Personally, I much prefer the Swiss attitude, the US one makes me want to vomit.

Tom
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  #169  
Old 03.03.2015, 23:53
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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And one thing that I DON'T miss is how PC the US has become.

Personally, I much prefer the Swiss attitude, the US one makes me want to vomit.

Tom
I think the Swiss attitude to smoking is pretty childish and selfish - it's the same attitude which means people are quite happy to push past loads of people in ski-queues to get to the front.

For me it's a negative thing about Switzerland.
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  #170  
Old 03.03.2015, 23:59
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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That's the real world - not your one or two puffs and it's finished. Have you ever even seen someone smoke?
Are you really taking DB's logic seriously? He's talking absolute twoddle and probably has zero actual interest or emotional investment in the topic other then gleefully using the chance to have a good troll.

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  #171  
Old 04.03.2015, 02:28
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

New study released today finds that smoking kills 2 out of 3 people (higher than previously thought).

http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/...-its-users/#p3

Let's be honest - it's a disgusting habit that effects everyone around you with second hand smoke.

If someone wants to eat or drink themselves to death, go ahead. But smoking effects others. Seeing people smoking in children's parks, outside hospitals, outside schools, bus stops, terraces... it's ridiculous.

Another point - swiss and expats in switzerland love to preach how great the country is, but as far as smoking laws goes - they are probably the worst in the western world.

Get with the times, it's 2015... not 1955.
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  #172  
Old 04.03.2015, 02:35
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

It ultimately boils down to this: Smokers feel it is their right (not privilege) to smoke. And non-smokers feel it is their right (not privilege) to enjoy fresh air.

Both standpoints make sense to a degree.

But for me, one thing decides it: Since when does the artificial and unhealthy state of enjoying smoke trump the natural and healthier state of enjoying fresh air?

It's a no-brainer that smoking should be the right that has secondary priority. But a few smokers are selfish, and many more merely oblivious to the annoyance they cause others.

I will say, moving back here a few years ago from USA was a bit of a shock, even though I knew what to expect. American smokers have become downright meek, going to extremes to shield others from their smoking; that change in mindset hasn't happened here yet.
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  #173  
Old 04.03.2015, 04:56
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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It ultimately boils down to this: Smokers feel it is their right (not privilege) to smoke. And non-smokers feel it is their right (not privilege) to enjoy fresh air.

Both standpoints make sense to a degree.

But for me, one thing decides it: Since when does the artificial and unhealthy state of enjoying smoke trump the natural and healthier state of enjoying fresh air?

It's a no-brainer that smoking should be the right that has secondary priority. But a few smokers are selfish, and many more merely oblivious to the annoyance they cause others.

I will say, moving back here a few years ago from USA was a bit of a shock, even though I knew what to expect. American smokers have become downright meek, going to extremes to shield others from their smoking; that change in mindset hasn't happened here yet.

the smoking bans in the USA started more than a decade earlier than here


fact is that up into the 1990ies quite many Americans smoked like chimneys
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Old 04.03.2015, 08:37
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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the smoking bans in the USA started more than a decade earlier than here


fact is that up into the 1990ies quite many Americans smoked like chimneys
Yes, Wolli, thanks for stating the obvious. The point is that Switzerland is way behind the times with regard to the issues around smoking. With regard to most things, actually, but in this instance we're talking about the public health approach to smoking.

Hence, this comment:

Quote:
Get with the times, it's 2015... not 1955.
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Old 04.03.2015, 09:05
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Yes, Wolli, thanks for stating the obvious. The point is that Switzerland is way behind the times with regard to the issues around smoking.
So's Wolli
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Old 04.03.2015, 09:18
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

As long as cigarettes stimulate the brain's pleasure centers, satisfy the oral fixation, and the lingering, permeating odor on clothing any any other porous material can only be smelled by non-smokers, there will be no end to smoking. At least, though, we've thrown smokers out of so many bars, where we can enjoy the harmless joys of alcoholism, and the wholesome pub stench of rancid beer and grease.

As Christopher Hitchens said of smoking, before dying of cancer, "It's the most perfect addiction...If you aren't hungry it will give you an appetite...if you are hungry, you can dull the pain of hunger by smoking...it wakes you up if you're tired, it makes you sleepy if you're not tired...it's the perfect, self-administered microdrug...it's the little glowing friend that never let's you down--in fact, come to think of it, I can't think why I gave the sh*% up. But you have to, because all the time it's being your best friend, it's being your worst enemy."
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Old 04.03.2015, 09:22
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Yes, Wolli, thanks for stating the obvious. The point is that Switzerland is way behind the times with regard to the issues around smoking. With regard to most things, actually, but in this instance we're talking about the public health approach to smoking.

Hence, this comment:

Behind WHOM ? Actually just in the centre of Europe, worse than some but less bad than others
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Old 04.03.2015, 10:26
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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Behind WHOM ? Actually just in the centre of Europe, worse than some but less bad than others
For example:

Greece, Italy, Slovenia and Turkey all have stricter laws which are rigorously enforced.

But Albania, Serbia and Switzerland don't.

Well done Switzerland!
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Old 04.03.2015, 10:38
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

Without reading every single post on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that anyone defending their right to smoke is in denial or carefree about their premature death and that's their choice. Your ignorance is your free pass to a life of illness.

So go ahead and kill yourselves. Slowly. Painfully. And as your veins tar up and your lungs lose their efficiency and you start gasping for air whilst trying to fix your focus on your young grandchildren who don't want to get to close to you because you stink, I'll be making my own lifestyle choices.

In the meantime, before you die in agony from cancer, keep the hell out of my breathing zone because I'm watching what I breathe.
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  #180  
Old 04.03.2015, 10:41
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Re: Why do so many people in Zurich smoke?

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If smoking is so bloody wonderful then why aren't you doing it yourself?

For the same reason I don't bugger other men.

Just because I support people's rights to make their own choices in life, it doesn't mean I have to make the same choices.

I find it a bit sad that I have to explain this to someone over the age of 6.
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