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Old 21.03.2015, 05:20
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Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

Hello, I am a dual US/CH citizen currently living in the USA going to college. After completing my degree, I wish to join the Swiss military. If I choose to do the long service, how soon after I move to the country can I start training?

Does the military provide housing for the whole 300 days of service?

Also, if I wish to stay in the military after the required service, how easy would it be for me to continue in the military, as a possible career?

I am majoring in history so I don't want to struggle trying to find a job. However, I am willing to work hard and be disciplined if given the opportunity, which is why the idea joining the military is appealing to me.

Thanks for reading my post!
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Old 21.03.2015, 05:46
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

IF
- you are citizen of Switzerland
- are domiciled in Switzerland
- are below 28 years of Age
- male
you will automatically, within a year, be called up for the MUSTERUNG. There, the Colonel in Charge will check in regard to what kind of troops you are to go. You then after a while, will get full Information about the RS/REKRUTENSCHULE


and this is NOT voluntary but Military Duty
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Old 21.03.2015, 07:51
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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IF
- you are citizen of Switzerland
- are domiciled in Switzerland
- are below 28 years of Age
- male
you will automatically, within a year, be called up for the MUSTERUNG. There, the Colonel in Charge will check in regard to what kind of troops you are to go. You then after a while, will get full Information about the RS/REKRUTENSCHULE


and this is NOT voluntary but Military Duty
In addition to the above there is an assumption that you speak at least one of national language competently. Putting milatary equipment in the hands of someone who can not communicate with the rest of men/women is unlikely to happen! So if you are rejected it will be a case of paying more taxes and/or doing civil defence service.

The Swiss army is a militia army so there are very very few full time professional positions, so I'd say there is only a slight chance that you get to stay on beyond the required service period.
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Old 21.03.2015, 09:55
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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In addition to the above there is an assumption that you speak at least one of national language competently. Putting milatary equipment in the hands of someone who can not communicate with the rest of men/women is unlikely to happen! So if you are rejected it will be a case of paying more taxes and/or doing civil defence service.

The Swiss army is a militia army so there are very very few full time professional positions, so I'd say there is only a slight chance that you get to stay on beyond the required service period.


He of course can, at the Musterung, tell the Colonel, that he wants to become a DURCHDIENER
http://www.vtg.admin.ch/internet/vtg...iener/wie.html


and will then get the required info, most likely by normal mail
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Old 21.03.2015, 10:39
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

If you don't speak a swiss language they won't take you.

If you join a foreign army you might lose your US citizenship.
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Old 21.03.2015, 12:43
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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He of course can, at the Musterung, tell the Colonel, that he wants to become a DURCHDIENER
http://www.vtg.admin.ch/internet/vtg...iener/wie.html


and will then get the required info, most likely by normal mail
That's what he / she already alluded to in the OP ("long service"). We assume that "stay in the military after the required service" means a pro career, which very much depends on the performance during said long service. As Island Monkey mentioned, the Swiss Army has only few pofessional slots.

To answer another question: kjfdlhs, yes, of course housing is provided throughout.
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Old 21.03.2015, 14:50
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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To answer another question: kjfdlhs, yes, of course housing is provided throughout.

Are you sure about that? Normally, soldiers go home over the weekend. I'm not sure it's possible to actually stay there during the entire time.
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Old 21.03.2015, 16:04
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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Are you sure about that? Normally, soldiers go home over the weekend. I'm not sure it's possible to actually stay there during the entire time.
Sorry, my knowledge may be outdated, but when I was active, which admittedly was before WW I, it was possible possible to stay over the weekends. Just no meals at the barracks, and of course, with the token pay, there might be a problem with eating out.

I think that part needs some more research.
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Old 21.03.2015, 16:07
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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Sorry, my knowledge may be outdated, but when I was active, which admittedly was before WW I, it was possible possible to stay over the weekends. Just no meals at the barracks, and of course, with the token pay, there might be a problem with eating out.

I think that part needs some more research.

I honestly don't know - when I served, nobody had the desire to voluntarily stay there for the weekends :-) but food shouldn't be a problem as they have to cook for the people who're condemned to weekend guard duty.
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Old 21.03.2015, 20:33
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

For the OP, be aware that even though Swiss military service is required, they do a number of tests (physical, mental, and other aptitudes such as language as mentioned above) and REJECT quite a high percentage of the "candidates".

The idea of the long service is worth a try, but do not be surprised if they tell you "thanks but no thanks". In these cases, people who are refused have to pay a special military tax that compensates the fact that they are not doing their military service.
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Old 22.03.2015, 07:16
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

Thank you all for your imformative responses, it is a great help. I have mediocre knowledge in both french and german, but I am going to work on my french in college to reach fluency beforehand.
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Old 22.03.2015, 08:14
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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If you don't speak a swiss language they won't take you.

If you join a foreign army you might lose your US citizenship.

I do not think that US laws have changed to the worse. During the War in Vietnam quite many USA-CH double-citizens did the CH RS as that made sure that they had NOT to join the US Forces in Indochina, and None of them lost the USA citizenship
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Old 22.03.2015, 09:44
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

Here the US state department on foreign military service:
http://travel.state.gov/content/trav...y-service.html


Quote:
[...] loss of U.S. nationality if a U.S national voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. nationality enters or serves in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the United States or serves in the armed forces of any foreign country as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer.

Military service in foreign countries, however, usually does not cause loss of nationality since an intention to relinquish nationality normally is lacking. In adjudicating loss of nationality cases, the Department has established an administrative presumption that a person serving in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities against the United States does not have the intention to relinquish nationality.
PS: If you actually wish to lose your U.S. nationality (Because of FATCA and Co.) relinquishing is cheaper then denouncing.
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Old 22.03.2015, 10:15
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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If you don't speak a swiss language they won't take you.

If you join a foreign army you might lose your US citizenship.
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I do not think that US laws have changed to the worse. During the War in Vietnam quite many USA-CH double-citizens did the CH RS as that made sure that they had NOT to join the US Forces in Indochina, and None of them lost the USA citizenship
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Here the US state department on foreign military service:
http://travel.state.gov/content/trav...y-service.html




PS: If you actually wish to lose your U.S. nationality (Because of FATCA and Co.) relinquishing is cheaper then denouncing.
However, if you do join the military with the INTENTION of losing your American citizenship this does qualify as an expatriating act and you can relinquish on the basis of it. Many Canadians citizens have done this and obtained their relinquishment CLN. Given that service in Switzerland is compulsory it might prove more difficult to prove the intention, but not impossible. After all you could serve in the US military instead.

"Potentially Expatriating Acts


Section 349 of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. nationals are subject to loss of nationality if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality. Briefly stated, these acts include:
  1. obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon one's own application after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
  2. taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or its political subdivisions after the age of 18 (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
  3. entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the United States or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);
  4. accepting employment with a foreign government after the age of 18 if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);
  5. formally renouncing U.S. nationality before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);
  6. formally renouncing U.S. nationality within the United States (The Department of Homeland Security is responsible for implementing this section of the law) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);
  7. conviction for an act of treason against the Government of the United States or for attempting to force to overthrow the Government of the United States (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA)."
http://travel.state.gov/content/trav...tionality.html

kjfdlhs, remember that as a US citizen you're obliged to file and possibly have to pay US taxes on top of any Swiss ones. The US system is based on citizenship and not residency as in the rest of the world. Start your research here:

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Inter...-Aliens-Abroad

Also getting a bank account here is difficult for American citizens, you will need to sign a W-9 form to allow said bank to pass the account into on to the IRS. You will also need to file annually an FBAR form for all "foreign" accounts if the aggregate total comes to more than $10,000 at any time of the year.
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Old 22.03.2015, 11:26
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

Americans continue to emigrate from the US in search of a better life or, at least, a job. Since the start of the Obama administration in 2009 until the last published figure, an estimated 2,343,000 Americans left the US, bringing the total to 7,600,000 of Americans living abroad at May 2013. At a rate of 520,000 emigrants per year, the current total would be around 8,600,000 Americans abroad.

The Obama administration has tried to pull the rudder around to prevent further emigration by making it difficult for its overseas citizens to obtain ordinary banking services. To prevent Americans abroad from renouncing, in September 2014 it increased the renunciation fee to from $450 to $2,350, which is 20 times the average rate for other developed countries, according to Forbes. It has also made it difficult to obtain appointments to renounce at US embassies and consulates. Although the backlog at the Toronto consulate is one full year, it offers only eight renunciation appointment slots per week.

It could be argued that the Obama administration is acting rationally. It recognizes that the US benefits tremendously from "brain import"*, estimated at $200 billion per year, and is trying to prevent a brain drain.

Oh yes, I hope you can realize your Swiss military plans. But also recognize that the Obama administration detests American emigrants.


* Futurist, 6/ 2008: "The US effectively receives a 'education import' estimated to be above $200 billion a year, as people educated at the expense of another nation immigrate here and promptly participate in the workforce."
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Old 22.03.2015, 11:45
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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Sorry, my knowledge may be outdated, but when I was active, which admittedly was before WW I, it was possible possible to stay over the weekends. Just no meals at the barracks, and of course, with the token pay, there might be a problem with eating out.

I think that part needs some more research.
When I served (I'm 50 so, like Greybeard, this may be outdated) people were allowed to stay (or return early, if they wanted) in the Kaserne over the weekends and would eat with the "Wache", the unlucky soldiers who were ordered to stay and guard the whole thing.
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Old 22.03.2015, 11:57
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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Americans continue to emigrate from the US in search of a better life or, at least, a job. Since the start of the Obama administration in 2009 until the last published figure, an estimated 2,343,000 Americans left the US, bringing the total to 7,600,000 of Americans living abroad at May 2013. At a rate of 520,000 emigrants per year, the current total would be around 8,600,000 Americans abroad.

The Obama administration has tried to pull the rudder around to prevent further emigration by making it difficult for its overseas citizens to obtain ordinary banking services. To prevent Americans abroad from renouncing, in September 2014 it increased the renunciation fee to from $450 to $2,350, which is 20 times the average rate for other developed countries, according to Forbes. It has also made it difficult to obtain appointments to renounce at US embassies and consulates. Although the backlog at the Toronto consulate is one full year, it offers only eight renunciation appointment slots per week.

It could be argued that the Obama administration is acting rationally. It recognizes that the US benefits tremendously from "brain import"*, estimated at $200 billion per year, and is trying to prevent a brain drain.

Oh yes, I hope you can realize your Swiss military plans. But also recognize that the Obama administration detests American emigrants.


* Futurist, 6/ 2008: "The US effectively receives a 'education import' estimated to be above $200 billion a year, as people educated at the expense of another nation immigrate here and promptly participate in the workforce."

US Americans emigrating reduce the burden on infrastructure in the USA, AND, and this includes those who cancel their US citizenship, by average do MORE for the USA than most US-American USA-residents. They in the economy and in culture automatically promote the USA. They usually try to explain the USA to Europeans.


Those who oppose in W-DC should bear in mind the famous words of JFK who said we never had to build a wall up to prevent people from leaving us
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Old 22.03.2015, 12:03
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

This Blick article indicates that about 1/4 of boot-camp (Rekrutenschule) and civil service (Zivildienst) applicants are rejected as unsuitable. The primary reasons mentioned include:

Physical: back, joint and "constitution" problems.
Psychological: lack of psychological dependability, depressive moods and drug consumption.

http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/mil...id3535025.html

In addition to being physically and mentally fit, you will need to ensure that your French (or German or Italian) language abilities are sufficient to make the cut.

Have you thought about joining the French Foreign Legion?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/c...ing-americans/
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Old 22.03.2015, 12:07
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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When I served (I'm 50 so, like Greybeard, this may be outdated) people were allowed to stay (or return early, if they wanted) in the Kaserne over the weekends and would eat with the "Wache", the unlucky soldiers who were ordered to stay and guard the whole thing.

perfectly correct still, as the Wache matter over the years got rather stricter. I still remember the times when Kaserne and WK-Areal (with the STGWehre inside) simply were closed and everybody departed ----- I am 64 and a half but have younger Cousins and nephews
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Old 22.03.2015, 12:26
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Re: Voluntary Military service for dual citizen.

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when I was active, which admittedly was before WW I
You're looking good for your age
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