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  #41  
Old 02.04.2015, 22:45
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush?
Oh, I don't know... I'd rather have a couple in the bush than one in the... erm... wrong forum.

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  #42  
Old 02.04.2015, 22:57
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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Oh, I don't know... I'd rather have a couple in the bush than one in the... erm... wrong forum.

I'm not sure that is even the same idiom they are getting at about sparrows and crows and other feathered creatures - don't think I've heard it for well on 30 years but it flashed up on my feeble brainscreen, clearly derailed after so many years as a "furner"
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  #43  
Old 02.04.2015, 23:29
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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I'm not sure that is even the same idiom they are getting at about sparrows and crows and other feathered creatures - don't think I've heard it for well on 30 years but it flashed up on my feeble brainscreen, clearly derailed after so many years as a "furner"
Oh, have some trust. Of course it is. The idea was that
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it's better to be content with what you have than to risk losing everything by seeking to get more.
Moving to other country means taking risks. It might work well for you, or not. That doesn't mean, as MN put it, that other people who choose to stay in the same place don't take risks. Only different kind of risks imo.
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Old 03.04.2015, 01:15
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Interesting comments indeed My blog is on life balance, it is good to see that it led to such a variety of different topics on this forum (only). It is not about anything else than that, sharing interesting and meaningful experiences that might be of advantage to others when it comes to balancing the various aspects of our lives. Things I, and many people I am in contact with in my private or business life, find useful to know and share. No one is forced to read naturally and I do respect that many might have different opinions of course. In my opinion you can either leave positive or negative BUT constructive feedback or create your own blog

@ Wollishofener, I won´t take it personally, but thank you. I have a fairly thick skin, thank you for your comment though, it is appreciated.

@ Apsrsj Thank you for your comment too and for reading the post. I did´t end my post with a conclusion on purpose, it is open for readers to form their own ideas on the basis of my post and their experiences, it is quite clear from the title and the post itself that I do not always put inevitable "culture clashes" down to nationality or to being an expat or not or to character. There are many reasons for culture clashes and in my experience and studies I have found it is often down to what psycology defines "cognitive biases" (tons of workshops and talks going on the topic right now btw) and to where people are in that particular moment of life. People are different, we all perceive things differently (this thread goes to show), there is often no right or wrong, just perceptions. If they can be expressed with a positive spin, then we are all in a better place.

As for the quote "some men go through a forest..." that is an English saying that seemed (to me) matching the direction of my post.

As for the comment on many Italians living in CH speaking Italian only... not sure in what context that was written. For that matter I am fluent in 4 languages and so are many people from multiple nationalities. Italian IS one of the official languages in this country...

@ those who commented without having read the post or jumping to conclusions...well what can I say.

As for the debate expat/immigrant & co, there were a few articles in the press recently, many definitions, etc. I don`t mind any and won´t get caught up in the struggle of finding the right box, there is none really to me, "expats" is what goes for the majority in CH and I will use that term. I consider myself a European living in Europe (as in geographical EU). There is no intention or reference to superiority or inferiority of anyone, expats or not, people who live happily or not in their country of origin. it was about culture clashes, which can happen also with your neighbour who was born and bred next door. In my post it was matched with "expat life". Again, just different experiences and perceptions.

It was very revealing to read many of the thoughts here :-)
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  #45  
Old 03.04.2015, 01:37
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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Interesting comments indeed My blog is on life balance, it is good to see that it led to such a variety of different topics on this forum (only). It is not about anything else than that, sharing interesting and meaningful experiences that might be of advantage to others when it comes to balancing the various aspects of our lives. Things I, and many people I am in contact with in my private or business life, find useful to know and share. No one is forced to read naturally and I do respect that many might have different opinions of course. In my opinion you can either leave positive or negative BUT constructive feedback or create your own blog

@ Wollishofener, I won´t take it personally, but thank you. I have a fairly thick skin, thank you for your comment though, it is appreciated.

@ Apsrsj Thank you for your comment too and for reading the post. I did´t end my post with a conclusion on purpose, it is open for readers to form their own ideas on the basis of my post and their experiences, it is quite clear from the title and the post itself that I do not always put inevitable "culture clashes" down to nationality or to being an expat or not or to character. There are many reasons for culture clashes and in my experience and studies I have found it is often down to what psycology defines "cognitive biases" (tons of workshops and talks going on the topic right now btw) and to where people are in that particular moment of life. People are different, we all perceive things differently (this thread goes to show), there is often no right or wrong, just perceptions. If they can be expressed with a positive spin, then we are all in a better place.

As for the quote "some men go through a forest..." that is an English saying that seemed (to me) matching the direction of my post.

As for the comment on many Italians living in CH speaking Italian only... not sure in what context that was written. For that matter I am fluent in 4 languages and so are many people from multiple nationalities. Italian IS one of the official languages in this country...

@ those who commented without having read the post or jumping to conclusions...well what can I say.

As for the debate expat/immigrant & co, there were a few articles in the press recently, many definitions, etc. I don`t mind any and won´t get caught up in the struggle of finding the right box, there is none really to me, "expats" is what goes for the majority in CH and I will use that term. I consider myself a European living in Europe (as in geographical EU). There is no intention or reference to superiority or inferiority of anyone, expats or not, people who live happily or not in their country of origin. it was about culture clashes, which can happen also with your neighbour who was born and bred next door. In my post it was matched with "expat life". Again, just different experiences and perceptions.

It was very revealing to read many of the thoughts here :-)

Trees and forest. The Swiss German Phrase is
das isch halt wennt vor luuter Bäum dä Wald nüme gseescb
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  #46  
Old 03.04.2015, 02:21
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote from OP: "Expats is what goes for the majority in CH and Iwill use that term"

So who are you? How long have you been in CH and what is your definition of "the majority"
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Old 03.04.2015, 04:31
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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Quote from OP: "Expats is what goes for the majority in CH and Iwill use that term"

So who are you? How long have you been in CH and what is your definition of "the majority"

The majority of foreigners in Switzerland are
ITALIANS
PORTUGUESE
KOSOVARI-ALBANIANS
TURKS
ARABS
GERMANS
TAMILS
--
the ENGLISH SPEAKERS (Brits, US-Americans, Canadians, Australians, NewZealanders, South African ---- who may see themselves as EXPATS are a small MINORITY


Interesrting is the English-French divide among Arabs in Switzerland. While in Geneva, the Maghrebis (Algerians, Moroccans, Tunisians) are fairly heavily in evidence but unfortunately not (yet) in Zürich, the Egyptians, Palestinians and Iraqis, and soon Syrians are well represented in Zürich


the GERMANS ? are not "expats" but rather "Germans in Switzerland". A lot of print is used to describe the various Problems resulting from the traditional LOVE-HATE relationship, but in reality, quite many Germans, not as dull as their Reputation arrange themselves fairly well
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Old 03.04.2015, 11:04
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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Mm, actually you kind of did. According to your posts expats (or "most of us at least") are more adaptable, more open-minded, more willing to step outside their comfort zones. Those are usually considered positive qualities. So in sum you're saying that you think expats are different from other people in positive ways. Pop quiz, name a 6-letter synonym for "different in a positive way".

What I'm saying is that expats aren't really that different at all: that people are people, all of us just getting on with our lives in whatever circumstances we find ourselves. It doesn't take a special kind of person to move abroad. It's a demanding transition, sure, but human beings - all of them, not just the special expat-type human beings - have incredible reserves of potential to cope with stuff like this.
No, you're inferring things. I never implied "better" nor that those qualities were "better," just different. I think we're saying the same things.
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  #49  
Old 03.04.2015, 11:07
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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Quote from OP: "Expats is what goes for the majority in CH and Iwill use that term"

So who are you? How long have you been in CH and what is your definition of "the majority"
cognative biase, me thinks.
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Old 03.04.2015, 11:15
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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We can adjust better to our new country and the people
Better than whom?
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Old 03.04.2015, 11:27
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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Better than whom?
People who can't adjust, of course.
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Old 03.04.2015, 11:34
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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People who can't adjust, of course.
So expats are better at adjusting than people who can't adjust? So what about those expats who can't adjust? Or, for that matter, those non-expats who've never had the opportunity to prove that they can adjust?

Does not compute.
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Old 03.04.2015, 11:44
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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So expats are better at adjusting than people who can't adjust? So what about those expats who can't adjust? Or, for that matter, those non-expats who've never had the opportunity to prove that they can adjust?

Does not compute.
Of course, it's all relative and circular.
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Old 03.04.2015, 11:46
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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So expats are better at adjusting than people who can't adjust? So what about those expats who can't adjust? Or, for that matter, those non-expats who've never had the opportunity to prove that they can adjust?

Does not compute.
We all know that expats are the superior kind of people. Because expats can adjust. They also have unique skills and experiences, and no cognitive biases. Really, locals should be grateful that there are expats. The only reason that there could be cultural clashes, is that locals sometimes don't understand that expats are better.
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Old 03.04.2015, 11:47
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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Of course, it's all relative and circular.
So, in essence, everybody is different to everybody else, expat or not.

Ooh look! Clouds!
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Old 03.04.2015, 11:48
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

I have immigrated four times in my life and was twice an expat; this will be our third expat assignment. The only difference between the two terminology is the intention on the duration of stay. When we immigrated; our intention was to live in that country open ended without any fixed duration of stay (which obviously didn't materialize as obviously we are on the move again). When we took expat assignments; we agreed to live in a country for a fixed duration of time (for example this time we are intending to stay in Switzerland for five years) with the intention to go back to our home country after the conclusion of this assignment. To me, this is the major differentiator between the two terminology; expats can be from any background and their race is absolutely irrelevant. When we had the intention to stay somewhere permanently, we put significant more effort to integrate and bought houses, tried to make local friends, etc. so out of personal experience, I have to disagree with the concept that expats integrate better. Actually if a person knows that they are leaving the country after two years, they make life choices that match that life style. For example choose international schooling for their kids and not bother with learning the locals or their language.

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Old 03.04.2015, 11:51
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

I heard mom and dad talking about my education last night - they said something about spending a few years abroad, possibly CH, because it will enable me to adapt better later and they've heard its such a nice place...Adults think they know everything
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Old 03.04.2015, 11:53
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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I heard mom and dad talking about my education last night - they said something about spending a few years abroad, possibly CH, because it will enable me to adapt better later and they've heard its such a nice place
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Old 03.04.2015, 12:01
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases



But isn't that
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Old 03.04.2015, 12:12
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Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

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So, in essence, everybody is different to everybody else, expat or not.

Ooh look! Clouds!
And the sky is blue, or maybe not, if you're colorblind, or on acid. Maybe it's black, if your eyes are closed.
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