Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01.04.2015, 23:02
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 19
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts
Manuela79 has earned some respectManuela79 has earned some respect
Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

One of the things that surprise you at the beginning of your life abroad is how differently at times people do and perceive things. I put this down to culture and country of origin the first few years, but 8 years and 3 countries later I can say that in my experience often culture and origin have very little to do with behaviours. Of course we all carry traits that come straight from what we learnt as children and from where we grew up. But how much does that really influence the adult life of many educated, well travelled people? As I did not move abroad to bring my motherland with me, I have been determined to find out more.

http://ownthewayoulive.blogspot.it/2...cognitive.html
Attached Thumbnails
expat-life-culture-clash-cognitive-biases-english-culture-proverb.jpg  
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Manuela79 for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 01.04.2015, 23:16
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
RoseBourbon has no particular reputation at present
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

I think this is a good point. We obviously bring our background with us wherever we go, but expats are different, and maybe more able to change. We can adjust better to our new country and the people (most of us, at least), so there is for sure something more to this.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank RoseBourbon for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 01.04.2015, 23:26
WilliamTell's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 174
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 166 Times in 67 Posts
WilliamTell has earned the respect of manyWilliamTell has earned the respect of manyWilliamTell has earned the respect of many
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

We are the explorers of the modern world.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank WilliamTell for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 01.04.2015, 23:54
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CH
Posts: 999
Groaned at 234 Times in 109 Posts
Thanked 622 Times in 388 Posts
Bucentaure is considered unworthyBucentaure is considered unworthyBucentaure is considered unworthy
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Was that sarcasm or still April fool?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Bucentaure for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 02.04.2015, 00:19
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,234
Groaned at 35 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 9,967 Times in 3,070 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
I think this is a good point. We obviously bring our background with us wherever we go, but expats are different, and maybe more able to change. We can adjust better to our new country and the people (most of us, at least), so there is for sure something more to this.
Hmm, somebody's been reading too much Kipling.

Certainly I disagree strongly with the notion that expats (or even "most of us") are some sort of different, superior breed. My life took a different turn than many of my hometown friends' lives did, but life is what it is, and I don't feel I've coped any better or worse than other people would have done in my shoes.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02.04.2015, 00:37
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 19
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts
Manuela79 has earned some respectManuela79 has earned some respect
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Mmhh I think some comments are off topic. The blog post is about cognitive biases, not about expats being better or worse than anyone else.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Manuela79 for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 02.04.2015, 05:33
Wallabies's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 3,200
Groaned at 317 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 3,293 Times in 1,565 Posts
Wallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond reputeWallabies has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
Hmm, somebody's been reading too much Kipling.

Certainly I disagree strongly with the notion that expats (or even "most of us") are some sort of different, superior breed. My life took a different turn than many of my hometown friends' lives did, but life is what it is, and I don't feel I've coped any better or worse than other people would have done in my shoes.
Spot on! Based on the average questions asked on the EF then the concept of superiority is not a normal feature of the average person if anything the avearage expat on EF is more of an inferior species who is only able to do something by obtaining input from unknown random individuals on an internet forum and who is easily insulted
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wallabies for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 02.04.2015, 05:43
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
One of the things that surprise you at the beginning of your life abroad is how differently at times people do and perceive things. I put this down to culture and country of origin the first few years, but 8 years and 3 countries later I can say that in my experience often culture and origin have very little to do with behaviours. Of course we all carry traits that come straight from what we learnt as children and from where we grew up. But how much does that really influence the adult life of many educated, well travelled people? As I did not move abroad to bring my motherland with me, I have been determined to find out more.

http://ownthewayoulive.blogspot.it/2...cognitive.html

Well, somebody from Milano and coming to Zurigo is an Emigrant out of Italy and an Immigrant to Switzerland, or simply a Tourist. And there are many Italian Speakers in Zurigo who only speat Italian and get along


There of course still may be English People abroad who suffer from bearing Kipling's burden, but certainly not the rule


************************************************** ************************************************** ***


Quote:
View Post
Mmhh I think some comments are off topic. The blog post is about cognitive biases, not about expats being better or worse than anyone else.


For People coming from Los Angeles or Lima or Tokyo, there is not so much of a difference between people from Milano, Lugano, Zürich and München


************************************************** ************************************************** ***************
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02.04.2015, 05:44
Textoch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas, USA (formerly Vaud, CH)
Posts: 1,161
Groaned at 26 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 2,857 Times in 896 Posts
Textoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
Mmhh I think some comments are off topic. The blog post is about cognitive biases, not about expats being better or worse than anyone else.
((sigh))

You can take all those cognitive biases and spin them into a thesis, blog, or whatever, or just boil them down to the fact that there are really mean people everywhere you go, and no one really knows why they are mean.

So the best thing is just to get over it, I think.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Textoch for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 02.04.2015, 06:08
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 19,028
Groaned at 333 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 11,712 Times in 6,857 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
((sigh))

You can take all those cognitive biases and spin them into a thesis, blog, or whatever, or just boil them down to the fact that there are really mean people everywhere you go, and no one really knows why they are mean.

So the best thing is just to get over it, I think.

The opening-post INCLUDED several aspects, INCLUDING the one that immigrants from the UK are a different sort of People just because they describe themselves as "expats". If you translate this into Swiss German than you have us äm Land Usegschmisseni
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02.04.2015, 10:01
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
Mmhh I think some comments are off topic. The blog post is about cognitive biases, not about expats being better or worse than anyone else.
The blog post is kind of thought provoking, yet it is itself full of its own cognitive bias. I just can't determine whether it is a self-referential reflection, honesty, or hipocrisy. I'l just say its human, and its fine.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02.04.2015, 10:25
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Engelberg & near Basel
Posts: 5,860
Groaned at 169 Times in 121 Posts
Thanked 8,902 Times in 3,984 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
The blog post is kind of thought provoking, yet it is itself full of its own cognitive bias. I just can't determine whether it is a self-referential reflection, honesty, or hipocrisy.
Indeed, I couldn't work it out either. But the only thoughts it provoked on me were along the lines of "yeah, so what's your point? "
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02.04.2015, 12:00
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 66
Groaned at 5 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 30 Times in 17 Posts
Apsrsj is considered knowledgeableApsrsj is considered knowledgeableApsrsj is considered knowledgeable
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

I read your blog. I think you wanted to share with others your view and findings and that's what blogs are for. I couldn't understand why you received some of the criticism above. No where in your blog, you claimed superiority for expats over immigrants or some of the other points discussed above. I think your blog might have had too many scientific terms, which weren't read thoroughly.
I don't say that criticizing is not ok. It is fair to hear what others have to say. Having said that, if a critic has a fair point they should present it to the actual content of the essay and argue about the discussed principles and more importantly ADD to the value of the discussion; not just criticize for the sake of it. This forum needs positive encouragement and discussions to go along with the constructive criticism. To balance out the things a bit, I share my view. You have done quite a bit of reading on the topic and your blog was well written. it was nice to hear your point of view and think about other possible players in this equation. However, it would have been nice to have a practical conclusion. Thanks for sharing.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Apsrsj for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 02.04.2015, 12:28
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,721
Groaned at 27 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 4,237 Times in 1,924 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
Indeed, I couldn't work it out either. But the only thoughts it provoked on me were along the lines of "yeah, so what's your point? "
A small attempt was made to read it, but a mix of far too many personal pronouns and attempted science made it seem much to self absorbed and preachy.

Anyone make a decent TL;DR?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02.04.2015, 12:52
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,971
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,005 Times in 1,780 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

I loathe the term "cognitive bias". whether we like it or not, life is subjective. yes, there are objective measures by which we can evaluate one's life, but those are in the end utterly facile and meaningless.

in my personal experience (I can't speak for other expats), living abroad has significantly expanded the breadth, depth and scope of my subjective perception of "life" and my "surroundings". this has had absolutely nothing to do with the theory that people are objectively the same everywhere, and everything to do with the reality that people in different places are subjectively very, very different - and a certain part of that difference is very definitely cultural and behavioral.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 02.04.2015, 15:09
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
RoseBourbon has no particular reputation at present
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
Hmm, somebody's been reading too much Kipling.

Certainly I disagree strongly with the notion that expats (or even "most of us") are some sort of different, superior breed. My life took a different turn than many of my hometown friends' lives did, but life is what it is, and I don't feel I've coped any better or worse than other people would have done in my shoes.
Quote:
View Post
Spot on! Based on the average questions asked on the EF then the concept of superiority is not a normal feature of the average person if anything the avearage expat on EF is more of an inferior species who is only able to do something by obtaining input from unknown random individuals on an internet forum and who is easily insulted
Different in the sense that expats are at least willing to explore outside of the comfort zone of their home country. Certainly not so grandiose as Kipling's philosophy may make it seem, and certainly not "Superior." Just different. Maybe that means more open-minded, maybe that just means we're risk-takers, or even just followers of others.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank RoseBourbon for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 02.04.2015, 15:33
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,177
Groaned at 462 Times in 350 Posts
Thanked 9,364 Times in 4,926 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Maybe I didn't read the blog post with enough diligence, but I don't recall it saying anything about "Superiority" and "Inferiority". It was basically about Expat life, and given that this is an Expat-like Forum, there is nothing wrong with sharing. Much more distasteful things are shared here anyway.

As for "Superiority" and "Inferiority", I actually find them to be mostly the same, motivated by the same - a person's unease with the world they live in. In fact, the same people tend to swing back and forth between the two.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02.04.2015, 15:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,120
Groaned at 189 Times in 148 Posts
Thanked 6,084 Times in 3,289 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
Maybe that means more open-minded, maybe that just means we're risk-takers, or even just followers of others.
It's all about expectations. Having in mind "we're different cultures" made me be much more tolerant with others, with strangers. Things that would have literally spoilt my day or made me boil inside for at least half an hour (a rude person or who knows what else) are just stuff that happens. By far more detached now...or maybe it's just ageing.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02.04.2015, 15:50
Tasebo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wald, Zurich/Stockholm
Posts: 1,194
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 1,263 Times in 645 Posts
Tasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
Mmhh I think some comments are off topic. The blog post is about cognitive biases, not about expats being better or worse than anyone else.
A day late for the April Fools, are you going to thread-ref and keep it on-topic.

Personally, I skimmed through that blog and thought "what a load of fluff".

My personal bias maybe, but any blog that starts out with a gender-specific assumption (men are the hunter-gatherers) is going to raise my eyebrows.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02.04.2015, 16:18
MathNut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kt. Glarus
Posts: 4,234
Groaned at 35 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 9,967 Times in 3,070 Posts
MathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond reputeMathNut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Expat life, culture clash and cognitive biases

Quote:
View Post
Different in the sense that expats are at least willing to explore outside of the comfort zone of their home country. Certainly not so grandiose as Kipling's philosophy may make it seem, and certainly not "Superior." Just different. Maybe that means more open-minded, maybe that just means we're risk-takers, or even just followers of others.
Or maybe - and hear me out on this - maybe not different at all.

I don't see on what basis one can possibly conclude that people who still live in their hometowns must de facto be risk-avoiders, closed-minded, or unwilling to explore... which is the flip side of the coin you're offering.

Comfort zones come in many shapes and sizes and every single grownup I know has left theirs far, far behind. Geography is a particularly visible marker of this but not a particularly profound one.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank MathNut for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and Mindfulness in Zürich and Winterthur BellaGlover Commercial 2 15.06.2014 23:10
Getting Away With It Swiss Stylee (tips and tricks for expat life in CH) higgybaby Daily life 22 03.08.2011 23:39
For Expat scientists from US: Differences in Lab culture..? sandiegan Daily life 11 16.06.2008 11:07
Expat Life and Food Delivery in Biel? Schnubbu Entertainment & dining 2 21.01.2008 14:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0