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  #21  
Old 09.04.2015, 12:09
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Re: RAV vs Sozial

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I would like to ask for help if anyone can help me find a job in a laboratory, manufacturing company or maybe a pharmaceutical one.

I have a bachelor's degree in Microbiology, with 1 month training(in a Water Testing Lab).
You're quite a gift to Switzerland coming back with a degree in a sector that looks to have a very bright future here.

One thing though, always stress that you are a Swiss passport holder, living in Switzerland, your family is here... in any job application. A big headache for companies is getting permits organised and then people leaving after 2 years. This is especially true for those that don't speak fluent German. So make the point that you are now firmly based here with a Swiss passport in the first paragraph of the covering letter!

Good luck!
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Old 09.04.2015, 12:55
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

Have you looked here? https://www.jobs.ch/en/suche/Chemica.../68/YTowOnt9/0
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Old 09.04.2015, 14:23
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

@p24 Thank you but it's never that easy. My German level is on A2. I'm learning all by myself. It will never be easy. It will take time.
Maybe I have to try another approach in writing my cover letter. I always put 'Schweiz' under my Nationality in my CV.

@Sbrinz - I check some of it but yeah it will be hard for me, most of it requires a good command of Deutsch. And that's what I'm lacking right now. Most HR will be particular about the language especially if I get a call or interview.
I had once a call from an agency, and she was speaking in Deutsch. It was a shame that I can't communicate properly in Deutsch. And she told me that I have to learn the language and call her again.

And sometimes I blame myself.
Being an introvert and unfriendly plus snobbish Schweiz people around , it will never be easy.
And I don't even have a friend here.
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Old 09.04.2015, 15:47
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

I think you need to change your attitude tout de suite.

If you keep saying 'I will never...' And 'I can't.... ' then you will never and you won't.
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Old 09.04.2015, 16:21
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

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I think you need to change your attitude tout de suite.

If you keep saying 'I will never...' And 'I can't.... ' then you will never and you won't.
There is some truth in the above, but it also seems to be an issue of confidence. Maybe being an introvert comes from the Swiss side of your family? Don't blame yourself. You will fit in OK once you learn some Swiss german at work. You can get a job without German too. English is so common in all these large Pharma companies.

You will be going against a pile of people who have no permit, are blagging about the job skills, or they have the wrong degree trying to get into Pharma (ho hum ).
It is a totally different culture here, even compared to the UK. I remember my first "Strictly German Speaking Only job". I think I was optimistically a B1. Once colleagues realised my German was worse than their English, it became fun and a joke!

Get a good covering letter, in English, saying you understand the German Job Spec, your written German is not so good. You are ready to work, Swiss passport. Maybe a desperate HR person who hasn't enough candidates will give you a break. HR can be very picky over Language, when in fact the manager prefers someone with a degree, desperate for the job, over some disinterested clock watcher with perfect German. As a scientist recruiting new team members, sometimes HR is a bigger barrier than accounting. Just know that the person with the job sitting behind HR inside the company wants you, and can speak perfect English.

At least you have lots of friends here (on EF).

All Swiss science graduates can speak English in my experience.

Last edited by p42; 09.04.2015 at 16:27. Reason: Add the bit about HR being picky.
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Old 09.04.2015, 16:53
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

I agree with miniMia - defo be prepared to jump through the hoops and stop concentrating on the negatives. However, if you intend to stay here, you should focus on learning German (or French) asap. Would it be something your dad would be prepared to support you in, financially I mean? B1 and B2 intensive courses are probably the best investments I made in my life and in May I am starting an office correspondence course.
You could get "just a job" to cover the period while you are learning if you do not succeed finding something suiting your degree.

The only thing I could find today (no German, non-executive, no specific skills):
http://www.swatchgroup.com/hr/jobs/s...14&language=en

Go to indeed.ch, type in "English" as keyword and select a region. Repeat every day. Or rather your browser should save your search for you.

Selfpity never brought anyone anywhere. You are already on your way with your appointments. Just keep going. And keep your chin up.

And the last thing. I am an introvert and have difficulties making friends. But friendship is a two-way street. If we close ourselves off from the world around us and don't participate, the chances are the others will keep walking by... I wish you the best of luck!
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Old 09.04.2015, 20:15
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

I'm a work in progress.
And I am thankful for all the advices that you guys are posting here in EF.


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  #28  
Old 11.04.2015, 00:59
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

If the OP has worked abroad (in a non-EU/ non-EFTA country) he may well be entitled to unemployment benefits. There is a scheme for Swiss abroad returning to Switzerland without a job...I know from first hand experience.

I was getting considerably more in Switzerland than I was getting in the UK.
There are conditions in order to qualify, but your local RAV should know what they are. Also, IIRC the payments are now limited to three months.

See this leaflet (in German) under "Arbeitslosenversicherung"

http://www.aso.ch/files/webcontent/r...g_mit_logo.pdf
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Old 11.04.2015, 13:13
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

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If the OP has worked abroad (in a non-EU/ non-EFTA country) he may well be entitled to unemployment benefits. There is a scheme for Swiss abroad returning to Switzerland without a job...I know from first hand experience.

I was getting considerably more in Switzerland than I was getting in the UK.
There are conditions in order to qualify, but your local RAV should know what they are. Also, IIRC the payments are now limited to three months.

See this leaflet (in German) under "Arbeitslosenversicherung"

http://www.aso.ch/files/webcontent/r...g_mit_logo.pdf

I didn't know that. They ask me if I work in a EU/EFTA country, I said no. But if I will tell them that I work for a non-EU/EFTA country for 1 month, they would ask for employment papers and shit which I don't have. And they would ask why did I left, and I don't want that. I want to start new with clean sheet.
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Old 11.04.2015, 13:59
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this thread is so nauseating to me.

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I didn't know that. They ask me if I work in a EU/EFTA country, I said no. But if I will tell them that I work for a non-EU/EFTA country for 1 month, they would ask for employment papers and shit which I don't have. And they would ask why did I left, and I don't want that. I want to start new with clean sheet.
You want to start with a new clean sheet - at the cost of others...that doesn't sound very "clean" to me. Times may be rough for yourself I get that but deal with it.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 11.04.2015 at 14:33. Reason: merging successive posts
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Old 11.04.2015, 15:36
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

@backtoch That's why If I don't get any unemployment benefits, it's okay(i still can survive) rather than they will know my past employment history (and more questions will be asked) I have already dig a grave to put my past behind. I don't have to bring that to Switzerland with me.
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  #32  
Old 11.04.2015, 15:41
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

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@backtoch That's why If I don't get any unemployment benefits, it's okay(i still can survive) rather than they will know my past employment history (and more questions will be asked) I have already dig a grave to put my past behind. I don't have to bring that to Switzerland with me.
It's not really our business here on EF about your employment history, BUT - any potential employer in Switzerland will be asking questions before they hire you. They will ask for your reference letters and personal contacts. If you have none of that and you're a student, it's generally not a problem. However if you're of an age when you should have a decent amount of work history and professional references, expect to answer questions. Maybe you're not proud of some things in the past. Try to put them in a more positive light (such as what you've learned) rather than trying to hide them.
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  #33  
Old 11.04.2015, 15:47
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

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@backtoch That's why If I don't get any unemployment benefits, it's okay(i still can survive) rather than they will know my past employment history (and more questions will be asked) I have already dig a grave to put my past behind. I don't have to bring that to Switzerland with me.
My suggestion to you is to forget about RAV even if they offer you "help" for the application process. Just do your best finding a job on your own. Since you don't qualify for RAV you don't have to waste your time with those totally clueless and inefficient RAV employees.

Applying for jobs is a numbers game and you shouldn't take it personally when you get declined. It's easier said then done but that's the truth. Just apply, apply, apply and apply more places. It can be emotionally draining so get out the house on walks and enjoy nature in between, get some sun and then apply some more.

Best to you with your employment search and your new start in CH.
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  #34  
Old 11.04.2015, 15:56
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

I am sorry you feel like you want to put the past behind you. But RAV is paid for by those who work, part of their salary as an insurance, so it is only fair that the RAV employees will ensure the tax-payers' money is well spent. The only way to start with a clean sheet is not to aks for help and support- as they will ask, and they will want to know. As 3Wishes says, prospective employers will ask questions too, it just cannot be avoided. So prepare well for job interviews- anticipate the questions and practise answering as positively as you can in the circumstances.

Last edited by Odile; 11.04.2015 at 16:34.
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Old 11.04.2015, 16:55
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

Backtoch,

I know a former RAV advisor personally. She tells me almost weekly some of the stories (no names) about situations she has had to deal with. It's a frustrating job due to lazy or exploitive clients on the one hand and the regulations and policyies of the Canton on the other.

Unless you've walked in their shoes, I think calling them clueless and inefficient a bit harsh.
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  #36  
Old 11.04.2015, 17:20
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

RAV is really hit and miss, depending on your advisor. I'm a 'returned' swiss as well, and went to RAV when I first got here not knowing what it was even. I just asked at the tourist info if they had any idea about how to get a job, and they told me to go there. When I met my advisor, he told me not to waste my time filling out forms cause I wouldn't be eligible as I hadn't paid in, but we did have a long conversation (in english) about possible jobs, and he printed out a huge list of company websites for me which really helped with my job search.

Later I went to RAV again, after having paid into the system for over a year, and got an advisor who didn't help.

As a swiss you are eligible for Sozial Hilfe, but it's designed to just pay for the basics.. there's lots of forms to fill out, and you have to show bank account info etc.. if your father is already covering your basics, I'd say it's unlikely to be much help. You also have to list your parents and their contact info on it, and they will contact them. There is an expectation that family with provide for each other before the state helps out. You can go and talk to them to find more out though without actually applying for it, just to see what your options are. They'll give you a lot of paper work, but there's also a time when you can come and people will help you fill out the forms if you find it difficult. After that you have a meeting where things are explained more clearly and then you decide if you actually want to apply for it. In honesty though, it's a pretty shitty place to be. I went down there, in Bern, as my expected RAV payments weren't coming through, and the situation was close to dire, but fortunately I got another job before needing to actually apply. A humbling experience nonetheless. A lot of drug addicts and people with mental problems.. hard to look around and see yourself as in the same situation as them.

In terms of finding a job, despite what some here say, you can find a job here where people won't check or care about whatever your past is. Having the right passport and being willing to work is fine for basic jobs like in a factory or as a pizza kurier or something. Career-type jobs may be a different story. Want any specific tips in Bern feel free to pm. Good luck.
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  #37  
Old 12.04.2015, 18:43
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From another thread:
I would think that's close to the age where the parent does not have to support her fully, but I am not positive.
Just some information for future reference concerning this matter:

Parents are legally obliged to pay child support until the child has received an adequate first education (Erstausbildung). The 'default' age is set at 18, but the parents are obliged to support the child until he/she has recieved adequate education. There is actually no upper limit, the '25 years' refers to something else, which is explained below.

Adequate education means you have some sort of education, which allows you to persue a profession. For example, someone who has completed an apprenticeship as a plumber or hairstylist by the age of 18 cannot demand child support from their parents anymore.
A high school diploma (Matura) is not considered an adequate first education, because usually you go study at a university then.
So until you finish your diploma at a university, you are eligable for child support. This however is also not unlimited. The child is expected to obtain his/her diploma in an adaquate time period, so in about 4-7 years (which is probably why the ominous '25 years' always pops up => 18+7=25).
After a certain period, the parents can refuse child support, and should the matter end up in court, the court would probably rule in favour of the parents, since they cannot be expected to pay for the adult child forever.

The '25 years' which you often hear of, refers to child benefit money, which is provided by the Kanton. Depending which Kanton the parents(!) live in, it ranges from 200-300.- per month.
Simiilar to child support, child benefit money ends with 18, if you have received adequate first education. If you are at a university or so, child benefit lasts until 25 and then ends definately.

Hope this comes in handy for others!

Oh and filswiss: Have you considered signing up at ETH Zurich for a master of microbiology? I think the master is mainly in English.
If you do exceptionally well at the ETH, you can expect generous scholarships, which should get you through college life (if you're frugal).

Being a student comes with many benefits. In this case, you could still demand child support from your father, as a master diploma counts as a first education. Plus as a student you're entitled to lots of discounts and such. There are also housing organizations which offer cheap apartments/rooms for students. Oh and free German courses at the university!

HOWEVER you should not mistaken this as 'the easy way out'. It certainly will not be easy. You will have to be very dedicated to your studies and score exceptional grades, plus you would probably have to find a part time job anyway (say 20-30%) if you don't want to scrape by every month. But it could work out.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 12.04.2015 at 20:35. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #38  
Old 12.04.2015, 20:24
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

If the OP wants to continue her studies, maybe she could look at the master's options in Bern. There are optoins in English there as well and she could live with her family.
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Old 12.04.2015, 21:17
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

@keksli

what do you mean by: ''a master diploma counts as a first education'' ?
It's such a pity that I didn't grew up here! I was deprived of Swiss education and sometimes I blame my father for that! My father was the one paying for my schooling up to college in my other country. So if I apply for a masteral here, is my father still obliged to pay for my education? Please enlighten me, as I know nothing about education and family support here in Switzerland.
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Old 12.04.2015, 23:27
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Re: RAV vs Sozial [returning Swiss citizen]

I'll try my best to explain!

So, what do I mean with 'a master diploma counts as a first education'?
As I mentioned above, an 'adaquate education' means that you are able to persue a career/job in your field of study with the degree you currently hold.
In regard to your situation: You have a bachelor of science in microbiology. In Switzerland, you pretty much always need a master of science to apply for a position in the field of science/pharma. Thus, you are currently not in possession of the education you need to persue a career in science/pharma. Therefore, a master of science still counts to your 'first education'.

Regarding family support from your father: Yes, he is obliged to support you during your studies. But since you are older than the average student at ETH, you will be expected to support yourself as well. This is why I mentioned that you most likely will have to work part time.
So I think you can expect for your father to pay for food, public transportation, health insurance and university fees. You will probably have to pay for the remaining costs yourself (rent if you decide to live on your own, telephone and internet bills, entertainment and so on).
(The advice I'm giving you is to the best of my knowledge. However, I cannot guarantee 100% accuracy, since I am not a lawyer/legal advisor).

If you are interested in studying at ETH, check out their website, which is availabe in English: www.ethz.ch/en.html
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