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  #121  
Old 09.04.2015, 12:13
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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I really could not count how many times I got to hear those stereotypes from Swiss colleagues as well as superiors in regard of my nationality. Was it fun? No. Did I make formal complaints to HR for anyone saying something negative about Germans? Well, let's just say that if they had fired everyone who makes a remark like this I'd been the only one left in the office...
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  #122  
Old 09.04.2015, 13:50
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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  #123  
Old 09.04.2015, 14:17
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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Superhero, my friend, you came to the wrong place to speak your mind. People on here like to drown opinions they don't like and pat each other on the back for a job well done. Go get your boss in trouble, bro. Godspeed!

P.S. replace (nationality) with (woman) and enjoy the all-mighty sh!tstorm!
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  #124  
Old 09.04.2015, 14:23
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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The line is:
- a business meeting is known to and attended by a limited number of people whos identities are well-known. That makes it a private event
- saying something to an unknown and basically unlimited number of people (e.g. broadcasting, streaming, blogging or replying on a public forum) whos identity is typically unknown, makes an action a public one
IIRC the Rassismus-Artikel may only be applied if a statement has been made in a public environment.

However, if he insulted you or your coutry fellowmen you may be able to sue him for üble Nachrede or similar, regardless of circumstances. But you'll need testimonies for that, if you don't get any you should consider the possibility that the problem may be on your side instead.
I forgot:
Any potentially racist action is not punishable under StGB article 261bis (Antirassismus-Strafnorm) if those involved know each other (have a personal relationship), or share a relationship of trust. I'd say at least the latter applies to any and all situations at work based on article 321a OR (duty of loyalty towards the employer), and probably most people attending the same meeting can be said to know each other so that applies, too.

It sems the only means at your disposal is civil law (e.g. üble Nachrede), which can't be delegated to some attorney general but needs to be handled by yourself, which in turn means you'll also personally have to bear the costs.

But that's just my personal opinion, the Commission on Racism www.ekr.admin.ch provides free advice that can be relied upon.

Eidgenössische Kommission gegen Rassismus EKR
Inselgasse 1
CH-3003 Berne
ekr-cfr@gs-edi.admin.ch
Tel.: +41 58 464 12 93
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  #125  
Old 09.04.2015, 14:51
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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I forgot:
Any potentially racist action is not punishable under StGB article 261bis (Antirassismus-Strafnorm) if those involved know each other (have a personal relationship), or share a relationship of trust. I'd say at least the latter applies to any and all situations at work based on article 321a OR (duty of loyalty towards the employer), and probably most people attending the same meeting can be said to know each other so that applies, too.

It sems the only means at your disposal is civil law (e.g. üble Nachrede), which can't be delegated to some attorney general but needs to be handled by yourself, which in turn means you'll also personally have to bear the costs.

But that's just my personal opinion, the Commission on Racism www.ekr.admin.ch provides free advice that can be relied upon.

Eidgenössische Kommission gegen Rassismus EKR
Inselgasse 1
CH-3003 Berne
ekr-cfr@gs-edi.admin.ch
Tel.: +41 58 464 12 93
guy with charlie hebdo support logo gives advice on how to pursue a politically incorrect expression. funny one.
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  #126  
Old 09.04.2015, 15:09
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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guy with charlie hebdo support logo gives advice on how to pursue a politically incorrect expression. funny one.
Not really. PC is a non-existent concept in a French mind. We kind of screwed it up. Charlie Hebdo is about fighting religions, conservatism, liberalism and the military (and also pro animal rights).

For a non-French mind, Charlie Hebdo might be described as promotion of PC content with non-PC means. It makes sense in a French mind. Sorry for that.

Hence: Fighting against anything racist is pretty much what Charlie Hebdo aims at every week. Not sure the office comments ever made it to front page, I admit that. But the main idea is very much Charlie Hebdo compatible.
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  #127  
Old 09.04.2015, 17:51
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

Now imagine in the same company in an official gathering with over 200 employees, one of the top managers announced company's next plans to save money by outsourcing work to one of the countries in southern Europe and India. He said the really easy work shall be outsourced to India and a little more difficult work to that certain southern European country. Isn't that generalization or even racism too?
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  #128  
Old 09.04.2015, 17:52
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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Now imagine in the same company in an official gathering with over 200 employees, one of the top managers announced company's next plans to save money by outsourcing work to one of the countries in southern Europe and India. He said the really easy work shall be outsourced to India and a little more difficult work to that certain southern European country. Isn't that generalization or even racism too?

Please explain why that would be racism or generalization?
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  #129  
Old 09.04.2015, 17:54
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

https://hbr.org/2015/04/what-researc...to-a-jerk-boss
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  #130  
Old 09.04.2015, 17:56
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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Please explain why that would be racism or generalization?
It is if he also says that every country should do what they're best at.

Now suppose you're in a hardware store and have a choice between a 400 CHF German drill and a 150 CHF Chinese one, and you say you're going for the German one because everybody knows Chinese quality is cr*p. Is that racism? Is everybody who buys a Mercedes for that reason a racist?
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  #131  
Old 09.04.2015, 18:01
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

Doesn't that imply that ALL workers in India are less intelligent than those of that European country? The other factors like necessary tools and training will be provide by the company so no different there.

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Please explain why that would be racism or generalization?
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  #132  
Old 09.04.2015, 18:02
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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It is if he also says that every country should do what they're best at.
Superhero didn't state that in his rant.

And as far as generilization is concerned, I really don't see what is wrong with that. Don't we all do that to a certain extent? I for one find latin american women the prettiest of all. Does that make me a "racist"? Superhero will probalby say "yes" to that.

Your example abt German vs Chinese is perfect though. It doesn't mean that everybody has to agree (for sake of good order, I do.).
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  #133  
Old 09.04.2015, 18:04
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

No because Mercedes and that Chinese company have different business models and target different consumers with different needs.

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It is if he also says that every country should do what they're best at.

Now suppose you're in a hardware store and have a choice between a 400 CHF German drill and a 150 CHF Chinese one, and you say you're going for the German one because everybody knows Chinese quality is cr*p. Is that racism? Is everybody who buys a Mercedes for that reason a racist?
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  #134  
Old 09.04.2015, 18:04
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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Doesn't that imply that ALL workers in India are less intelligent than those of that European country? The other factors like necessary tools and training will be provide by the company so no different there.
You can interpret it how you want.
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  #135  
Old 09.04.2015, 18:13
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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Doesn't that imply that ALL workers in India are less intelligent than those of that European country? The other factors like necessary tools and training will be provide by the company so no different there.
Perhaps. But it may also mean that it will be easier for the company to apply controls on onshore activities than on those in India. So activites which need more control and checks might be deemed difficult to accomplish and hence done closer home. It all depends on how you interprete 'easy' and 'difficult'. Easy to whom? For example, there could be things that are difficult for you/the company's onshore workers, but easy to the Indian worker :-). Also easy for what? Easy to perform, or easy to integrate in the working package, or easy to control/monitor.

And may be he says the same when in India, that we give the really difficult stuff to you, while we keep the easy stuff back home!!

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  #136  
Old 09.04.2015, 18:15
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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No because Mercedes and that Chinese company have different business models and target different consumers with different needs.
Sure, but isn't that a euphemism for saying Mercedes uses racism to sell cars?

Or that Lindt uses to sell Swiss chocolate?

Or that United Distilleries use to sell Scotch whisky?
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  #137  
Old 09.04.2015, 18:21
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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Perhaps. But it may also mean that it will be easier for the company to apply controls on onshore activities than on those in India. So activites which need more control and checks might be deemed difficult to accomplish and hence done closer home. It all depends on how you interprete 'easy' and 'difficult'. Easy to whom? For example, there could be things that are difficult for you/the company's onshore workers, but easy to the Indian worker :-). Also easy for what? Easy to perform, or easy to integrate in the working package, or easy to control/monitor.

And may be he says the same when in India, that we give the really difficult stuff to you, while we keep the easy stuff back home!!

Regards
Ah yes, but if you believe that in every country, on an aggregate and average level, all people are equally skilled, intelligent, innovative, resourceful etc, then there are only two factors that set countries apart: regulation and cost.

So if a company is outsourcing "dumb" work to India (which by the way they aren't really, but let's suppose for this argument), I don't think there are any countries that regulate against people doing "dumb" work, so it's all down to costs. But India isn't the cheapest country in the world. So why still take that work to India other than a racist belief that people there are especially well suited for this dumb type of work?
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  #138  
Old 09.04.2015, 18:40
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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So why still take that work to India other than a racist belief that people there are especially well suited for this dumb type of work?
I see, you are playing a Devil's advocate here. To answer you, however, it is possible that India has an existing and proven (or at least reputed to be proven) infrastructure and work-force which can do this type of work (dumb or otherwise). And hence it is easier for the company to scale up its offshoring activities in India relatively quickly (and that saves costs) compared to other countries that might have been otherwise cheaper. So it isn't a racist belief but sound economics, perhaps, because if the belief was fundamentally racist then it won't have been specifically India. I mean a racist wouldn't have made a distinction between the, alleged, unintelligence of an Indian and say a Vietnamese (given he isn't a Vietnamese to start with). No offences meant to Vietnamese, by the way (or to Indians, before you jump to any conclusions).

----
Or that the company has been taken over by an Indian firm, and the boss is just suger-coating the bad news :-)

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Old 09.04.2015, 18:57
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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...
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Or that the company has been taken over by an Indian firm, and the boss is just suger-coating the bad news :-)

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  #140  
Old 09.04.2015, 18:57
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Re: Is my boss a racist?

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Ah yes, but if you believe that in every country, on an aggregate and average level, all people are equally skilled, intelligent, innovative, resourceful etc, then there are only two factors that set countries apart: regulation and cost.
And why would that be so? I can understand that for intelligence and innovativeness, but not all people are equally skilled or equally resourceful. And there are many factors for that, like penetration of education, governmental emphasis or patronage of specific sectors, availability of work-force, ease of communication, poverty levels and even colonial past (past English colonies will naturally be having a bigger English speaking population or English driven education which might be useful in that kind of work).

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