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  #21  
Old 20.05.2015, 07:58
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

I think part of the complacency is due to the number of UN family and other international organizations based here. And it's not just the number of staff these bodies have (who don't pay much tax anyway so don't directly benefit state coffers). For instance, just in the Palais de Nations, the annual World Health Assembly has just started with thousands of delegates from around the world with fat per diems* to spend for a fortnight. When that finishes, ILO has its bun-fight with even more delegates and lasts for three weeks. Apart from these really huge ones, there is a constant stream of well-attended conferences and meetings (don't forget the Human Rights Council which seems to be in permanent session) with people coming from all over.

Then all the other agencies, WIPO (awash with money), WTO, ITU etc, etc who have similar meetings and conferences. Then there are the non-UN bodies ICRC, IFRC, IOM, WCC and many more.

All these provide huge cash injections to businesses in Geneva. And with all these captive customers, why make an effort?

*And of course per diems are based on living costs (mainly hotel rooms and restaurant meals) so keeping those up is great for hotels and restaurants. We wouldn't want too much competition now would we? Isn't life grand?
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  #22  
Old 20.05.2015, 10:48
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

A very happy Geneva resident here - 7 years in so far and no plans to go anywhere else any time soon. We're in a small village in the countryside with views of mountains all around; it takes me 20 minutes to cycle into work (no problems with traffic); the job is going well; our neighbours and colleagues are friendly; and when I need to do a food shop on Sunday I'm at a big French supermarket in 5 minutes.

Plus in the summer the nearest decent cycling climb is 20 minutes away and we can be on the slopes in winter in 30 minutes (small resort) to one hour (Chamonix).

Yes the bridge/tunnel to cross the lake would be good. Yes there are other little niggles. But wherever you live there will be things that could be improved.
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  #23  
Old 20.05.2015, 12:03
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

Interesting thread...

I'm a born genevan and I like my town and its history, but I'd be happy to move in another town small town with a nice countryside (for the moment, I start to get a lot of interest about Yverdon).

Since my childhood, Geneva's changed a lot and has become dirty, very dirty.
I even don't feel safe when I have to go out at night (which is very subjective I know)
Younger, I used to love to come in the city center for a movie or for meeting some friends.

It's also a town where things take a very very long time to change... I don't
know if it's due to it's calvinist spirit, which is, I believe, still strong in the city.

I see also a change in the mentality about foreigners, some people complaining about them being everywhere.
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  #24  
Old 20.05.2015, 12:46
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

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A very happy Geneva resident here - 7 years in so far and no plans to go anywhere else any time soon. We're in a small village in the countryside with views of mountains all around; it takes me 20 minutes to cycle into work (no problems with traffic); the job is going well; our neighbours and colleagues are friendly; and when I need to do a food shop on Sunday I'm at a big French supermarket in 5 minutes.

Plus in the summer the nearest decent cycling climb is 20 minutes away and we can be on the slopes in winter in 30 minutes (small resort) to one hour (Chamonix).

Yes the bridge/tunnel to cross the lake would be good. Yes there are other little niggles. But wherever you live there will be things that could be improved.
Your post is quite funny, a satisfied Geneva resident who is in fact living in a small village in the countryside, and examples of the great advantages are shopping and skiing in France:-)
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  #25  
Old 20.05.2015, 13:00
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

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Your post is quite funny, a satisfied Geneva resident who is in fact living in a small village in the countryside, and examples of the great advantages are shopping and skiing in France:-)
Geneva is a canton, including the city and surrounding countryside.

One of the standard complaints of expats arriving in Switzerland is the lack of shops opening on Sundays.

Geneva is fantastically well placed/connected with airport, train station and motorways linking to the rest of Europe, including getting up into the Alps in winter for some skiing.

I'm struggling to see the humour...
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  #26  
Old 20.05.2015, 13:15
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

Interesting to see the only bi**ing people (apparently with their own issues) coming from... Zurich I guess Geneva people have other things to do, maybe enjoying their environment?

OK you want a Genevois opinion? I love it here! Originally, when coming to Suisse I wanted to stay in Zurich, where I spent 3 months looking for job, doing interview rounds and then waiting for work permit to be issued. Lived in Lausanne too, but for my taste, not very international place.

Fast forward (almost) 5 years - living here, in heart of Geneva, relatively cheaply (or ridiculously cheap compared to other rents around), living close to most beautiful park I ever visited (Parc des Eaux Vives).

I like it here more, cheap France is 2 kms away. There are many personality traits I dislike about french, but overall it's an amazing place to go to (ie Mont Blanc summit this weekend, fingers crossed). They have definitely more fun attitude compared to general German-machine-style (read, german-swiss) one. Many complains about Swiss mentality mentioned on these forums are non-existent to us (this goes way beyond your after-10-pm flushing). The place is super-international. We have actually very active glocals site, which serves one with endless activities from all ranges.

Mountains are closer, heck I am door-to-door in 1 hour directly under highest mountain in western europe. 1 hour from Zurich gets you... nowhere interesting, really. Traffic jams - not part of a problem if you actually live in Geneva. Compared to quite bad and consistent traffic jams I face when going home, every single effing time, around Zurich (the only guaranteed jam site on a 1400km drive).

Lake is nicer. Heck, whole golden coast is the most beautiful part of Suisse (this is saying mountain freak like me).

Food is better in France, for considerably less. So are all other services (how much do you pay for your car repairs?). And so on.

As for putting it to France, there is better solution - independence, like it was before joining Swiss federation. Geneva would fare just fine

To me, these cities are very likely - similar location at the end of the lake, small hills around to have fun after work at. Geneva considerably closer to real mountains, on border to France, 1 hour drive to Italy. Both places are very nice place to be, but I am staying here, although move to Zurich would be easy for me (speaking well german, work in IT). Simply because, this place, so far, works for me very well and I don't see a single thing Zurich offers for me that Geneva doesn't.

P.S. we don't pay for our trashbags (yet), there are still few free parking spots around, albeit getting rarer every day. details, but they tend to pile up...
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  #27  
Old 20.05.2015, 13:26
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

Yes of course, but I think the remarks in the thread were rather about the problems of the town, the lack of housing, transport issues, etc. What I found funny is that the first one who come out liking living in Geneva actually lives in the countryside and is happy because he can go to France. Not sure this is what the Swiss want to hear about the attraction of Geneva.
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  #28  
Old 20.05.2015, 13:53
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

Regies' excuse to control prices = lack of housing. They are the biggest crooks in Geneva, IMO.

I live in the center too and I love it. I can be who I am without the fear of prejudice (that I am very well familiar with after living in another EU country). I just wish more people would try to integrate and respect the local language and how things are done here. But as Gordon Comstock said, there are just too many temporary expats and diplomats here.
But that's what makes Geneva, Geneva. It's chaotic and beautiful.
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  #29  
Old 20.05.2015, 15:18
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

A PR excercise is underway to explain 'International Geneva'...

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/bicenten...swiss/41423694
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  #30  
Old 20.05.2015, 15:28
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

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Yes of course, but I think the remarks in the thread were rather about the problems of the town, the lack of housing, transport issues, etc. What I found funny is that the first one who come out liking living in Geneva actually lives in the countryside and is happy because he can go to France. Not sure this is what the Swiss want to hear about the attraction of Geneva.
you don't like what I write, because I don't complain as you expected and my glass is not half empty
I live in centre of Geneva, in Eaux Vives. If you call this countryside, better check your maps I have no issues with transport, because for work, I use public transport which is good enough for me, and for all else, I use my car, with which I don't encounter traffic jams that frontaliers face (and they don't complain about it, but rather take it as a part of the deal "more money=less time").
Traveling across the border and shopping is very much allowed by Switzerland, with certain limits that are easy to fulfill. Who cares where one shops? French hypermarkets are for me fastest to drive to, and do open on Sundays, that's all that matters. Same goes for leisure, adrenaline and fun - Geneva is just better placed for french rather than swiss alps.

All towns in this world have some issues, you apparently have more than one with this town. Don't like it? Easy, move, more space for those who actually enjoy it here, and you can be happy someplace else. But don't be shocked when you will meet plenty of very happy people in Geneva, I know quite a few
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  #31  
Old 20.05.2015, 16:04
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

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I think the remarks in the thread were rather about the problems of the town, the lack of housing, transport issues, etc. What I found funny is that the first one who come out liking living in Geneva actually lives in the countryside
So maybe those who have complaints whilst living in town could take the tram out to the countryside for a stroll & see there is a lot more to the canton than just concrete & traffic?
Noise, dirt, drug trafficking, pick pockets, traffic, pollution, crowds ... that's the same in most cities.
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  #32  
Old 20.05.2015, 16:48
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

I've lived here for over 40 years. I'm part of the furniture!!

I love it here, apart from the usual problems most cities have. I also live in Eaux Vives and use the buses to get around. I haven't driven a car in over twenty years and don't miss that one bit. So they can build a bridge or a tunnel - won't bother me one way or the other.

Geneva is my home and is one of the most beautiful cities in the World. I feel honoured to live here. Most of my friends are Genevans from all walks of life, along with longterm expats like myself.

So there, all you jealous, grumpy people!!!!
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  #33  
Old 20.05.2015, 18:09
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

I also love Geneva in many ways, but I think the point I was making has been missed out: what has made Geneva's success is well known, and its status as diplomatic capital has made its wealth.


I am concerned, however, because businesses are starting to leave (Singapore...), not in their big numbers, but there seems to be a trend (P&G, huge employer, relocating big chunks of its staff) and I genuinely feel that Geneva can no longer rest on its past successes and needs to be proactive at being an even more attractive city.


It is not "dissing" one's host city than hoping for improvement, even though I truly feel blessed to be here.
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  #34  
Old 20.05.2015, 20:40
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

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Interesting to see the only bi**ing people (apparently with their own issues) coming from... Zurich I guess Geneva people have other things to do, maybe enjoying their environment?
Erm, I think you will find that a complaining Genevan made the thread in the first place... the Zurichers just chipped in because we love the chance to rub it in.
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  #35  
Old 20.05.2015, 20:51
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

Geneva seems to recognise a problem

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Geneva is currently on an expensive roadshow to celebrate joining the Swiss Confederation 200 years ago – and to try to kill off some enduring clichés.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/bicenten...swiss/41423694
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  #36  
Old 21.05.2015, 11:39
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

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you don't like what I write, because I don't complain as you expected and my glass is not half empty
I live in centre of Geneva, in Eaux Vives. If you call this countryside, better check your maps I have no issues with transport, because for work, I use public transport which is good enough for me, and for all else, I use my car, with which I don't encounter traffic jams that frontaliers face (and they don't complain about it, but rather take it as a part of the deal "more money=less time").
Traveling across the border and shopping is very much allowed by Switzerland, with certain limits that are easy to fulfill. Who cares where one shops? French hypermarkets are for me fastest to drive to, and do open on Sundays, that's all that matters. Same goes for leisure, adrenaline and fun - Geneva is just better placed for french rather than swiss alps.

All towns in this world have some issues, you apparently have more than one with this town. Don't like it? Easy, move, more space for those who actually enjoy it here, and you can be happy someplace else. But don't be shocked when you will meet plenty of very happy people in Geneva, I know quite a few
My comment was aimed at the previous poster (genevasculler) who was in the countryside (I guess Vandoeuvres or Puplinges or around there) but you posted just before me. Otherwise I had just said i found that funny, it was not my aim to bash Geneva. I actually liked your posting and had thanked it until I saw you had groaned mine. That's all.
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  #37  
Old 21.05.2015, 19:29
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

Oh, i forgot to mention.

I can't wait until the Circus comes to town!!
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Old 22.05.2015, 01:05
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

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I am concerned, however, because businesses are starting to leave (Singapore...), not in their big numbers, but there seems to be a trend (P&G, huge employer, relocating big chunks of its staff) and I genuinely feel that Geneva can no longer rest on its past successes and needs to be proactive at being an even more attractive city.
TANGENT I'm not really sure this has much to do with Geneva per se. Most multi-nationals are relocating to/expanding their presence in Asia because of the very large, high-growth markets and the educated workforce in that region. It seems to be something of a trend in business management at the moment. However, few if any companies are truly pulling their presence out of Europe. Instead they are mostly just choosing to put any new employees nearer the new markets. /TANGENT
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  #39  
Old 31.05.2015, 12:47
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

I live in the center of GVA and don't have a car so I can't really complain about the traffic, but I do have a bike and can say that if the city were more bike friendly then there might be less traffic.

One of the nicest things of Geneva is that you can go swimming in the lake, be in the middle of the city and then in 15 minutes be in the countryside.
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Old 01.06.2015, 03:12
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Re: The beginning of the end for Geneva?

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No need PaddyG, you've got it all in Fribourg! Cheap(er) rents, fresh air, clean towns, Irish green grass and La Fondue Fribourgeoise! We cannot compete!

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Geneva is the place at the Lake of Geneva --- it has the Fountain (Jet d'Eau) --- etc -- it has the many Arab (Maghrebine/Lebanese) restaurants
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