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  #41  
Old 03.06.2015, 17:07
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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I hear you, but I have yet to be approached by a beggar in either English, German, Swiss German or Luxembourgish.
In English - I have a few times by the same person in Geneva outside the Co-Op on Route de Florissant. She didn't sound like a native speaker.
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  #42  
Old 03.06.2015, 17:08
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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I hear you, but I have yet to be approached by a beggar in either English, German, Swiss German or Luxembourgish.
Häsch mr foif Stutz?
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  #43  
Old 03.06.2015, 17:15
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

Greenmount, I don't know you and I don't want to offend you, but the die-hard beggars in Lausanne that have their own "assigned" spots are, indeed, Roma and they are well known to the police.

They arrive in the mornings in a van and disperse to their various positions. Sometimes the women have random babies with them and sometimes they don't. Sometimes the men have random dogs with them and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they have crutches and disabilities and the next day they don't.

Sometimes you will be able to catch the "runners", i.e. young-ish boys, who go around and collect the money out of the cups of the beggars after lunch. At the end of the day, they pile back in the vans just up the hill from St. Francois at Montbenon and go back to wherever it is they live. They are not homeless. This is their job.

As far as the red light in front of Globus, there is usually someone begging there. I cannot say that I have ever seen the exact old man that the OP is talking about. Please don't try and pretend to be naive about this situation because it just makes you look like an imbecile.
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  #44  
Old 03.06.2015, 17:29
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

Speaking of marginalization, racism and discrimination. @Greenmount; care to talk about how these same people are treated in Romania itself? How they are probably treated worse there than what you hear on this Forum, or here in the West? I assume they come out here for a reason.
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  #45  
Old 03.06.2015, 19:22
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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Speaking of marginalization, racism and discrimination. @Greenmount; care to talk about how these same people are treated in Romania itself? How they are probably treated worse there than what you hear on this Forum, or here in the West? I assume they come out here for a reason.
There was a report recently, on BBC London News, about trying to clear out the rough sleepers along the canals and under the bridges.
Most of those shown on camera, were sad and sorry looking Romanians. They were offered shelter and food - most declined, but a few accepted.

I find it hard to believe that sleeping under a cardboard box under a bridge arch or a self made shelter in a thicket, with next to no money for food, is any better than what they left behind, in order to come to the 'Promised Land'.
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  #46  
Old 03.06.2015, 19:28
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

Speaking of the beggar gipsy women with sleeping babies on their lap - I heard* that they drug the babies or get them drunk so that they stay asleep the entire allotted begging time. Plus there is a minimum they must make per shift or else. Some of the crippled and the old begging around town are used and abused and forced into begging by the same overlords.

*source: person kidnapped by beggar ring and forced into begging until person escaped
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  #47  
Old 03.06.2015, 19:32
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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I find it hard to believe that sleeping under a cardboard box under a bridge arch or a self made shelter in a thicket, with next to no money for food, is any better than what they left behind, in order to come to the 'Promised Land'.

You haven't seen kids sleeping in pipes underground then have you?

I thought it was a bit of a myth until I saw filthy looking kids coming out from under manhole covers.
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  #48  
Old 03.06.2015, 20:14
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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Greenmount, thanks not only for the groan but also for the red blobbies (the first ones in my EF career) including the comment: "Your point being that you know without checking? Hmm.."

I appreciate your patriotism, but what do I have to assume when many of those laminated confirmation letters include a scan of something that looks like an identity card issued by Romania? So far I've seen about seven of those just in our little area.

Besides that, I happen to have four relatives / friends that are police officers in either St. Gallen or the Grisons. They all say that those folks come to Switzerland as tourists, equipped with valid Romanian ID documents. They work in groups of four to five individuals while roaming malls, train stations or neighborhoods. They always approach people alone, then gather to get picked up by a bus to leave the country after a few hours.

The police has a hard time proving any kind of offence without arresting them and launching a long legal procedure that is not worth the effort compared to the petty offence.

One of those police guys told me that the only way to handle them is to frisk them, "accidentally" drop their mobile and equally "accidentally" step on it before releasing them to board the bus. They'll be back in few days with a new phone, though.

By the way, I never meant to say the old man mentioned by the OP actually was one of them. I made that remark in jest because the OP wrote, "He wanted to say something."
Greenmount is a bonafide loon at the best of times, but when it comes to abject denial that her countrymen are responsible for most of the begging in European cities then the hilarity increases, and I have no idea why you are wasting valuable time and finger energy arguing with her when you know full well that she is being ridiculous and feeding off of the attention..
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  #49  
Old 03.06.2015, 20:51
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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Greenmount is a bonafide loon at the best of times, but when it comes to abject denial that her countrymen are responsible for most of the begging in European cities then the hilarity increases, and I have no idea why you are wasting valuable time and finger energy arguing with her when you know full well that she is being ridiculous and feeding off of the attention..
Well, no, I didn't know that because I don't live my life on EF. I noticed a question pertaining to a person begging in Lausanne and I felt comfortable answering because I am in the center of Lausanne every day. The begging situation is well-documented in our local paper and the specifics of their origin are certainly not a secret.

As you are a mod, (aren't you?), one would think that you would ENCOURAGE posters who actually know what they are talking about and can be of help when someone asks a question, rather than telling them that they are "wasting valuable time and finger energy", no?
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  #50  
Old 03.06.2015, 21:19
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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Well, no, I didn't know that because I don't live my life on EF. I noticed a question pertaining to a person begging in Lausanne and I felt comfortable answering because I am in the center of Lausanne every day. The begging situation is well-documented in our local paper and the specifics of their origin are certainly not a secret.

As you are a mod, (aren't you?), one would think that you would ENCOURAGE posters who actually know what they are talking about and can be of help when someone asks a question, rather than telling them that they are "wasting valuable time and finger energy", no?
Who the hell are you talking to... I wasn't even responding to you. Are you drunk, or just somewhat confused?
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Old 03.06.2015, 22:08
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

Begging is a business these days - and the Romanian gang-leaders have turned it into a quite profitable one (for them).
Maybe they aren't the kingpins themselves and report to some mafia-don somewhere else - I don't know.
AFAIK, they have Romanian or Hungarian passports, but they are "Roma" (gypsies). More info is probably around in the one or the other prostitution-threads.
They usually have almost no education, never learned a trade and thus the only thing the women can do is either prostitution, shop-lifting, pick-pocketing or begging. Begging is probably the least degrading of those.

In Romania, they are social outcasts just as here - nobody wants to have to do anything with them, including the government which is happy for every single one of them leaving towards the West...

Greenmount, it's always the bad apples that form the (stereotypical) image of a nation in the world. If you can accept that as a fact and get over it quickly, your life will be much happier.
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Old 03.06.2015, 23:31
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

Whilst talking of begging etc., can anyone tell me what the deal is with the 'Surprise' magazines? Is it something like 'The Big Issue' in the UK where registered vendors (usually homeless or marginalised folk) resell the magazine to make money and help get themselves back on their feet? or is it just a scam or something in-between. I always buy The Big Issue at home because I think it's legit and better than begging or thieving but I just don't know enough about 'Surprise'.
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  #53  
Old 04.06.2015, 00:29
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

[QUOTE=terramundi;2399615]Whilst talking of begging etc., can anyone tell me what the deal is with the 'Surprise' magazines? Is it something like 'The Big Issue' in the UK where registered vendors (usually homeless or marginalised folk) resell the magazine to make money and help get themselves back on their feet?/QUOTE]

Basically, yes.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surprise_(Magazin)
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Old 04.06.2015, 00:30
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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Greenmount, it's always the bad apples that form the (stereotypical) image of a nation in the world. If you can accept that as a fact and get over it quickly, your life will be much happier.
I respect Greenmount's passion and pride in defending Eastern Eiropeans when mentioned. I think its a healthy sign of self-respect. Although there are times it looks like she's debating her own self-perceptions. For example, when I think of Romanians, I thnik of Nadia Comaneci. Marilena- an old friend, or even Vlad the Impaler. I don't think of beggars and thieves. It almost seems like she would rather convince everybody I do. But really,, "...some of us are looking at the stars"-Oscar Wilde
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Old 04.06.2015, 08:05
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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Greenmount, I don't know you and I don't want to offend you, but the die-hard beggars in Lausanne that have their own "assigned" spots are, indeed, Roma and they are well known to the police.

They arrive in the mornings in a van and disperse to their various positions. Sometimes the women have random babies with them and sometimes they don't. Sometimes the men have random dogs with them and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they have crutches and disabilities and the next day they don't.

Sometimes you will be able to catch the "runners", i.e. young-ish boys, who go around and collect the money out of the cups of the beggars after lunch. At the end of the day, they pile back in the vans just up the hill from St. Francois at Montbenon and go back to wherever it is they live. They are not homeless. This is their job.

As far as the red light in front of Globus, there is usually someone begging there. I cannot say that I have ever seen the exact old man that the OP is talking about. Please don't try and pretend to be naive about this situation because it just makes you look like an imbecile.
TheSpouse, I'm very aware they are Roma (the PC term for "gypsy" people). But they could be from all over the Balkans/Eastern Europe, really. Not all Roma beggars come from my country and I have personally seen quite a few from other places too. I know, difficult to tell them apart so they are lumped in one single group. I don't think I'm an imbecile for wanting to clarify this aspect, thank you very much. And I never pretended that this problem isn't real!

I must say one more time that my impression was that OP wanted a different kind of an answer (apart from hey, be aware of this or that, or be street wise etc), as she genuinely seemed worried about that man and after she described that case to me at least it doesn't look like he's part of a gang or something. I have a frail old man begging at times here where I live (on the German side which is much less tolerant with this phenomenon, if at all), and he's a local...for sure in difficulty.
That was all, no need for insulting people. I'm aware you might be like me and not read quite everything here, but please try to form your own opinions about different users and be aware that twisting words (and intentions) is a common place on EF.
Have a good day!

Last edited by greenmount; 04.06.2015 at 08:51. Reason: typos....and more typos
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  #56  
Old 04.06.2015, 08:10
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

Every time I see this thread, I read "The man who was wrestling a monkey outside Globus".
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Old 04.06.2015, 08:40
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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Every time I see this thread, I read "The man who was wrestling a monkey outside Globus".
Every time I see this thread's title I wonder who that man was and most of all - could have been helped?
Then I look inside of it and see it was only an opportunity for character assassination..
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Old 04.06.2015, 12:17
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

I am so sad at how the discussion evolved.

Shifting the discussion back to man I saw, what concerned me was his evident age and choice of attire- both of which seemed to suggest that he may have fallen on hard times and didn't even know how to ask for money. I was hoping that someone may have seen him and may know more of him. At places where I used to be before (university towns), we used to know the stories behind most on the street who had fallen on hard times. This also meant that we could give targetted help. For example, there was a lady who never accepted money. But she fed pigeons and accepted bird feed! What she enjoyed most was just having someone to talk to.

There are others I notice in Lausanne centre- a couple who play beautifully, a man with a guitar who sings English pop songs (and might be English) (always makes me cry), and a man with a violin and who speaks English (although I haven't seen him for a long time).

I am off to town soon, so I intend to see if he is still there. But are there provisions for such people? Shelters? Other assistance? (and, as they say in the UK, any access to "benefits"?).
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Old 04.06.2015, 13:35
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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Every time I see this thread's title I wonder who that man was and most of all - could have been helped?
Then I look inside of it and see it was only an opportunity for character assassination..
Come to my imaginary land of wrestling monkeys. It's much more peaceful and there's plenty of room.

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what concerned me was his evident age and choice of attire- both of which seemed to suggest that he may have fallen on hard times and didn't even know how to ask for money.
Maybe I've seen it all too often and I'm just cynical. Maybe I've seen it all too often and I'm depressingly realistic. But I've seen it all too often (by all nationalities).

Old man, young girl, mother with a baby, etc.; the characters are different, the story is the same, well rehearsed, well targetted to get the maximum sympathy and it involves handing over money. If you frequent an area over a period, you see the same people doing it over and over.

I don't dount that there are people genuinely in need that are forced to approach strangers on the street, but they are mostly destined to their fate because of those that prey on human morals just to finance their greed. People have just grown immune to it.
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Old 04.06.2015, 13:36
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Re: The man who was requesting money outside Globus

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I am so sad at how the discussion evolved.

Shifting the discussion back to man I saw, what concerned me was his evident age and choice of attire- both of which seemed to suggest that he may have fallen on hard times and didn't even know how to ask for money. I was hoping that someone may have seen him and may know more of him. At places where I used to be before (university towns), we used to know the stories behind most on the street who had fallen on hard times. This also meant that we could give targetted help. For example, there was a lady who never accepted money. But she fed pigeons and accepted bird feed! What she enjoyed most was just having someone to talk to.

There are others I notice in Lausanne centre- a couple who play beautifully, a man with a guitar who sings English pop songs (and might be English) (always makes me cry), and a man with a violin and who speaks English (although I haven't seen him for a long time).

I am off to town soon, so I intend to see if he is still there. But are there provisions for such people? Shelters? Other assistance? (and, as they say in the UK, any access to "benefits"?).
still don't know the guy- but the one who sings pop songs is a great guy- lovely funny and talented guy. strongly recommend giving him a few francs or buying him a beer he's a tiptop guy, once in a while i sit and have a beer with him and he's great. the guy with the violin- the old white haired one or the younger dark haired one? either way they're around between the market and ouchy depending. love that violin. also the couple is a skinny junkie couple that take the train - he sings and plays guitar? they come and go but don't look too well. i think probably the guy you saw was a bit out of his head- given the age and what not. anyway, i always have apples or some kind of food on me so that's what i give.

it's good to help out when you can. i'd say go back on the day you were there or on the market days.
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