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  #81  
Old 15.07.2015, 09:25
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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  #82  
Old 15.07.2015, 11:38
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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No storage of rubbish necessary here, as there are NO collection whatsoever. People take the rubbish to the huge buried molock bin which are dotted everywhere- which are many and well placed- and neighbours help the elderly or infirm.
Again, that's very lucky that you don't have to store it, but that system is still unfair on people who are on a low income and can't afford to pay.

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how it is done there? Does the rubbish where you live end in landfill? At my daughter's in Southern England, they have 3 massive bins, each emptied every 2 weeks on rotation (getting the right dates for right bin is a total pain) - 1 for recyclables, 1 for composting, garden waste, and 1 for 'normal rubbish' - you certainly could not put packaging from large furniture in there, that is for sure! And normal rubbish even in Summer is collected only twice a month, even in this heat - maggots love it! And it all ends in landfill, tons and tons of it.
I have an aunt and a grandfather currently living alone in East Anglia.
My grandfather has the 3 coloured bin-system you spoke about. Which of course is ideal, works well, regularly collected, and more to the point free of charge. He also has a compost heap as he has a fairly large garden.
My aunt on the other hand only has one black wheelie bin (dustbin), which she puts out once a week. She recycles nothing as she is not obliged to. She opted out of receiving the new coloured bins. There are no fines, as there is simply no alternative, living in a first floor maisonette with no garden/balcony, there isn't anywhere to put the bins anyway, even her 1 black wheelie bin does not fit properly into the outdoor cupboard that was designed for rubbish! So yes, I assume all her rubbish goes to landfill.

When I spoke to some friends in the U.K. about some of the varied and loopy schemes in place here for rubbish and recycling rules, regulations and fees, they honestly thought I was joking!!

So, I know that recycling has been expanded in the U.K., but I haven't heard of any charges.

These schemes may work here, up to a certain point, more so probably in smaller communities, but when you get into large towns and cities, I think it's more difficult to implement as there are more people who can't/don't follow the rules and easier and more inventive ways to get out of paying the per bag tax.

I also found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JShIwc7Boxc !!

Last edited by plumtree; 15.07.2015 at 12:12. Reason: adding
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  #83  
Old 15.07.2015, 11:49
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

Funny- as when we talk to friends and family about the concept of the 'polluter pays' they all think it is a brilliant idea. Some kids here felt sorry for the elderly and those with mobility problems and started a free collection service (by bike) but it folded as nobody was using it. When we had elderly neighbours, I popped in to take their bin whenever I took ours.

People do adapt and think more about the rubbish/packaging their acquire and create if it costs them- and there has been lots of evidence of that here, and it is great. When I go to Italy, especially the south, and in parts of UK too, I really am glad we are more careful about recycling here. CH has no space for landfill, at all (for geological reasons as well as size) - and as said, the UK will soon run out of space to put rubbish in landfill, what then? All rubbish here is incinerated. Of course you pay in the UK as part of your council tax- and if you get the Council to pick up large items like furniture you have to pay- and fridges, etc, have an added environmental fee too. It cost us quite a bit when we moved here to get rid of unwanted stuff we could not give to friends or freecycle. We do not have the stamp system here, but I am sure I read that each household gets a certain number of free stamps per year, no?

Your relatives with the 3 bin system are lucky it is collected regularly- in most areas, where we lived and where our oldest lives, the normal bin is only collected twice a month- and in this heat, the smell and maggots are absolutely disgusting. I am glad I can take mine whenever and as often as I like.
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Old 15.07.2015, 12:11
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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in most areas, where we lived and where our oldest lives, the normal bin is only collected twice a month- and in this heat, the smell and maggots are absolutely disgusting. I am glad I can take mine whenever and as often as I like.
Couldn't agree more, disgusting and a health hazard. Which is why some people get fed up and illegally dump elsewhere far from their home. It is the Gemeinde that creates unpleasant situations like this.

Where I am now in Aargau the refuse is collected once a week and yes the smell of the bins in the summer is horrid. Not to mention the flies. Moreover some people don't have dustbins. Sacks left out overnight can be torn open by animals in the night, creating even more problems.

Our housekeeper found a non-official sack in one of the dustbins here, opened it up and found the name and address of a man who lived in a village nearby! The man had to come and pick it up (and presumably dump it somewhere else), otherwise our housekeeper would have reported it, whether it his job to do this though is another matter!

Where I was in Ticino it was collected twice a week (!!) as well as paper and card collected once a week. I really miss that as before I only used to have to separate paper and card (if I wanted to, but I did) from the rest of the rubbish, literally everything else went out twice a week in a normal supermarket bag or black sack, there was no 'per bag' tax and only a small annual flat rate. But at least there was absolutely no pressure or fear.

Lugano for example doesn't have a per bag tax nor an annual fee at all and is now the last comune in Ticino to have neither one or the other.

Last edited by plumtree; 15.07.2015 at 12:25. Reason: adding
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  #85  
Old 15.07.2015, 12:22
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

as said, in most parts of England it is twice a month- once per week would be sheer luxury. Maggots don't appear in a week- they do in 2.

I am proud to say I personally was successful in several prosecutions in the UK, of people who dumped bags of litter in the beautiful country lane near where I lived in Leicester. There is NO excuse for this- if they have a car, they can take rubbish to the tip, not a country lane. One of the prosecutions I managed to bring about was for an illegal tipper who dumped medical waste from the local private clinic, including needles and surgical blades and patients' notes! It was not my job either- but my duty as a citizen, thanks. Good on your housekeeper- if the man was able to come all the way from his nearby village to illegally dump in your bin... he could have taken it to the legal dump of his commune, oder?
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Old 15.07.2015, 12:34
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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Of course you pay in the UK as part of your council tax- and if you get the Council to pick up large items like furniture you have to pay- and fridges, etc, have an added environmental fee too.

.
This is simply not true. I know I've booked a pick up for a Mattress up in Scotland for Thursday and we get three pick ups of bulky items free per year.

Also bins are picked up every week. Every 2 weeks for black bins and then Brown and blue bins the other week. If you have spare black bags of rubbish they can be taken to the dump for free.
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Old 15.07.2015, 12:34
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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Good on your housekeeper- if the man was able to come all the way from his nearby village to illegally dump in your bin... he could have taken it to the legal dump of his commune, oder?
Genau! He was caught as he stupidly put his ripped up mail in the sack. He put the sack in our dustbin as he thought it would go unnoticed under other sacks because he wanted to get out of paying for an official sack in his own Gemeinde!

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This is simply not true. I know I've booked a pick up for a Mattress up in Scotland for Thursday and we get three pick ups of bulky items free per year.
It's more than likely that, just like here, it depends on the area. I've never heard of fees in the U.K., until now.

Last edited by plumtree; 15.07.2015 at 12:36. Reason: adding
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Old 15.07.2015, 12:46
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

Did the Math, I spend more money on laundry then on rubbish.
A 35 liter bag is approx. CHF 2 this cost, even on a tight budget, is negligent.
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Old 15.07.2015, 12:58
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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This is simply not true. I know I've booked a pick up for a Mattress up in Scotland for Thursday and we get three pick ups of bulky items free per year.

Also bins are picked up every week. Every 2 weeks for black bins and then Brown and blue bins the other week. If you have spare black bags of rubbish they can be taken to the dump for free.
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It's more than likely that, just like here, it depends on the area. I've never heard of fees in the U.K., until now.
Where we come from in the UK (Lancashire), where we still have a house and where family live, there is a small fee for bulky items.
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Old 15.07.2015, 13:21
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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Did the Math, I spend more money on laundry then on rubbish.
A 35 liter bag is approx. CHF 2 this cost, even on a tight budget, is negligent.
In some municipalities the 35 litre sacks are now Fr3.50 each or even more, using approx. 2 sacks a week means Fr7.-- per week. Fr30.-- per month.

http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/aargau...ross-129274452

The monthly cost even at Fr30.-- may still be negligent, I can fully agree with you, even on a tight budget, yet it is still 'visible'/'painful' enough, evidently, to drive people to easily and quickly dump rubbish illegally just to avoid paying Fr35.- for a roll of sacks:

http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/nie...id2989094.html

http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schwei...rden-129240078

http://www.blick.ch/news/erwischt-sc...id3692013.html

http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/bas...id2267381.html

http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/aargau...aden-129114055

http://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/aargau...riff-128841934
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Old 15.07.2015, 13:43
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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Where I was in Ticino it was collected twice a week (!!)
Where was that?

They haven't collected in most places around here in 15 years or more!

Tom
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Old 15.07.2015, 14:23
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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In some municipalities the 35 litre sacks are now Fr3.50 each or even more, using approx. 2 sacks a week means Fr7.-- per week. Fr30.-- per month.
Back at my parents place it was one 35l Sack per week for a family of 5 (13 and up). Reduce, reuse, recycle, compress. (Last one does not work where you are billed by weight)
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Old 15.07.2015, 14:50
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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CH has no space for landfill, at all
Nonsense, of course we do.

Where do you think all the stuff that we dig out of the mountains to make tunnels goes?

However, burning it to make electricity makes far more sense.

Tom
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Old 15.07.2015, 15:08
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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In some municipalities the 35 litre sacks are now Fr3.50 each or even more, using approx. 2 sacks a week means Fr7.-- per week. Fr30.-- per month.
Here, as a family of 5, I never do more than one 35L per week, often less. Either you or they are not recycling or buying the wrong things.
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Old 15.07.2015, 15:14
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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A 35 liter bag is approx. CHF 2 this cost, even on a tight budget, is negligent.
also negligible
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Old 15.07.2015, 15:28
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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Near our bins here, the amount of stuff being dumped illegally is rising
Let me guess... has the stupid trash bag tax recently been introduced in your area?
I'm sorry for you but these are just the nasty side effects of a system that creates wrong incentives.
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Old 15.07.2015, 16:51
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

This post got my attention, I had to do the math to compare to what we paid in Norway. The web-site of our old commune specifies the cost of each services.

For 282,00 CHF / year (bearing in mind that the NOK i weak right now), I had two 140 litre bins, one for garbage and one for paper. The garbage was collected once a week, paper once a month. No collection of organic waste, hence a major smell issue in the summer (and lots of rats in our neighbourhood). We used to have to walk to a plastic & glass station, now you have to collect plastic in special plastic bags (that you buy at the grocery store) and it's collected once a month. For glass you still have to walk/drive to your neighbourhood's glass collection station, just like in ZH.

Anything big, electrical or polluting has to be delivered at one of two main garbage collection sites, which you have to drive to (way out in the sticks) and where you pay according to the size of your vehicle. Open 08.00-16.00 Monday-Saturday, hence packed on Saturdays. No collection service, as we don't have a big car we had to rent a van if we had anything big to dispose of, and then a higher disposal fee.

Personally, I'm quite happy with the system here in ZH, it has made us more aware of how much waste we generate. We're now down to 1 35 l bag per week for a small family of 3. My only misgiving is having to "gift-wrap" the paper and cardboard recycling, but I've outsourced that chore to Better-Half so he can still say he's involved in housework.

To the OP, I would just wait and see if anything comes from that filming,;you've done nothing wrong, no point in getting upset. If anyone comes to you with the "incriminating" video, just say what it was all about. Personally I'd be cheeky enough to ask to see the video "just to check if I look good on it".
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Old 15.07.2015, 17:12
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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Anything big, electrical or polluting has to be delivered at one of two main garbage collection sites
You should be able to take your electrical stuff to any electrical retailer (though usually the bigger ones are better equiped for it, and I feel less guilty than dropping stuff off at a sole owner).
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Old 15.07.2015, 18:25
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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You should be able to take your electrical stuff to any electrical retailer (though usually the bigger ones are better equiped for it, and I feel less guilty than dropping stuff off at a sole owner).
Yes, they do that in Norway as well, but only if you buy a new item to replace the old one and if you either take it back with you or have the new appliance delivered. I believe it's an EU requirement of some sort.

Just wanted to point out that the system here (ZH) isn't bad, it just forces you to become aware of your waste producing habits. And I find the tram for special garbage and the coupons for larger items a good idea. I've forgotten to buy new bags on several occasions, but that's my problem, isn't it?
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Old 15.07.2015, 18:28
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Re: Videoed whilst leaving out stuff for my friend to collect!!

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I'd love to see you try to substantiate this statement. In many areas (including mine) this has been brought in or affirmed by popular vote and, Switzerland being what it is, can be decided by referendum anywhere and (more or less) anytime.

You create waste - you pay for it. What could be fairer than that?
I wouldn't go as far as saying in 'many' areas. Perhaps in some areas. But even in those scattered areas it was only a majority of those who voted for that system. All of those who didn't vote, who can't vote as well as those who voted against the proposal will generally be more in number than those who actually voted for it!

Some of the people who voted in the per bag tax, will certainly be amongst those who are doing a lot of the illegal dumping, as that way they pay nothing and were happy to see the annual tax abolished.

Why should some people in a Gemeinde have to pay to dispose of refuse whilst in another Gemeinde (without the per bag tax) there are people who don't have to?
That's clearly unfair.
A part of the unfairness, but certainly not all of it, could be eliminated if the exact same system was implemented across the entire country instead of more than 2'000 different variations.

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Where was that?

They haven't collected in most places around here in 15 years or more!

Tom
Firstly in a comune in Mendrisiotto where they had a per bag tax, secondly in a comune in Luganese that wasn't united with Lugano, that doesn't have a per bag tax but does have a small flat annual fee.
In the former the collection has been reduced to once a week since I moved away. In the latter as far as I can see, the collection is still twice a week and there is still no par bag tax.

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Here, as a family of 5, I never do more than one 35L per week, often less. Either you or they are not recycling or buying the wrong things.
You have to remember though that there is a completely different system in place in every single Gemeinde!
It's difficult for people, as previously and fully explained, to recycle, if:
- there are absolutely no collections for anything except general refuse and green-garden-kitchen waste,
- one doesn't have an automobile or access to transport,
- there are so many complex and absurd rules to adhere to, not to mention nasty fees,
- the recycling point is extremely far from one's abode and has extremely limited opening hours.

Some Gemeindes have simply introduced a hefty per bag tax but done absolutely nothing to facilitate or logistically incentivise recycling, on the contrary, it seems they try to make money out of the per bag tax by shifting the responsibility onto the citizen whilst continuously reducing their services.

People who are on a high income simply fill the bags, they can afford to. I've seen bags put out only half full.

But people on a low income are stuck with a system they can't afford, don't want and didn't ask for.

As for buying the wrong things. One must buy what one really needs. It is not the individual's fault that items are now wrapped up in so much excess packaging.

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these are just the nasty side effects of a system that creates wrong incentives.
Exactly!

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My only misgiving is having to "gift-wrap" the paper and cardboard recycling
Exactly! Another absurd and unnecessary rule.
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