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Old 28.07.2015, 13:20
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London to Geneva (cost of living)

Hello,

I know there have been thousands of these threads but I was hoping to get a fresh perspective given the recent CHF/GBP currency movements. Long story short is that I may be offered a job with an investment fund in Geneva. Base salary is likely to be in the 140-150k range and there will be bonuses (at this stage I have no info on how big these might be). The company also makes all pillar pension payments and covers travel expenses to and from work however there is no health insurance coverage provided. Ideally I would live in Nyon and get the train to work.

My current situation is as follows: I am 30 and married with 1 child (18 months). Both my wife and I are EU nationals. I am currently earning 85k base in London and received a 75k bonus last year (all numbers gross of tax). My wife works part-time and her salary just about covers child care and her travel to work. We both have private medical insurance through work.

Basically I would like to know if 140-150k sounds reasonable. Here is an overview of my current monthly budget to help.

1) Gross monthly pay: £7,083
2) Net monthly pay: £4,444
3) Rent: £1,820
4) Council tax: £148
5) Oyster card (travel card): £123
6) Grocery shopping (Tesco): £300
7) Electric & Heat (EON): £100
8) Water: £28
9) Zipcar (car share scheme): £171
10) Mobile phone: £48
11) Contents insurance: £23
12) Broadband: £35
13) Food at work (breakfast & lunch): £250
14) Economist magazine subscription: £10
15) Charity donations: £75
16) Bank account fee: £6.50
17) Life insurance: £50
18) Ice Hockey (I play once a week): £65
19) Total outgoings: £3,268
20) Residual: £1,176

We don't eat out often as my wife cooks. Our motivation for wanting to move to Switzerland is the excellent state funded schools which would save me £15-20k per year, per child, on school fees in London.

Thanks for your help!
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Old 28.07.2015, 14:26
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

Use a rate of 2chf to £, that's how much most things will cost on a day to day basis.
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Old 28.07.2015, 16:37
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

These threads also have handy lists of things to consider, so compare them to your own expenses and adjust accordingly:

Cost of living - help needed to get it right

Cost of living in Switzerland-with examples
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Old 29.07.2015, 13:19
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

Our water + electricity bill for May and June was 1200 CHF! An estimation, of course, but dreadfully more expensive than in the U.K.
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Old 29.07.2015, 14:10
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

There are sooo many variables. Accommodation is a huge variable.. I pay 4k per month but friends pay half of that. I depends what you want.

Shopping - Did an online shop last night which did not contain fresh veg or meat or fish, just the big bulky stuff like kitchen roll, 12 litres of milk, 12 bottles of fizzy water, wine, cleaning products, pasta, cereal etc. That was over 300chf . The actual fresh stuff will be same again.

Travel from Nyon to Geneva is ~250 per month - cheaper to do it by year.

Health ins ~700 per month for my family of 2 kids

There are loads of other things often paid anually, 3rd party insurance, fire insurance, car insurance (mine is 1800), TV licence (600?), commune tax..

Modest dinner for 2 with bottle of wine, something for the child, some water.. ~200


But yeah .. It's good here, my kid loves local school. But Nyon is full already
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Old 29.07.2015, 14:14
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

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Our water + electricity bill for May and June was 1200 CHF! An estimation, of course, but dreadfully more expensive than in the U.K.
!!!! I really must do a proper reading.. We've been the electric estimate bill for long time without checking.. and it's 300 per quarter rougly
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Old 29.07.2015, 15:29
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

you should be fine on that, much the same as at home, you will be ok but not well off.

2 other factors to consider, one is your partner will most likely struggle to get any sort of employment (tons of threads on that too) which can lead to domestic stress. Made worse by the fact that childcare here is astronomically expensive, and the waiting lists can be long (or you might be lucky). We pay chf 2600 per month per child, so you might need to factor that in too.

good luck on making the decision and let me know if you come and fancy a beer
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Old 29.07.2015, 16:09
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

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!!!! I really must do a proper reading.. We've been the electric estimate bill for long time without checking.. and it's 300 per quarter rougly


It came as a shock as not winter months (so those dreaded highly expensive electric heaters were not in use) and we try to be very careful with both water and energy generally. Hopefully we'll get some money back, but still have to pay the asked for price.
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Old 29.07.2015, 16:26
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

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Our motivation for wanting to move to Switzerland is the excellent state funded schools which would save me £15-20k per year, per child, on school fees in London.
This is your reason for moving to Switzerland??

I went to a State School in the UK and it was a lot stricter and more academic than any of the schools I've come across in Switzerland.... including a private school in Switzerland.

I'm not sure what you want from a school for your children, but the Swiss school system is very different from the British system. Not that that is bad.. it just depends what you want. If you are used to the British system, you might not be happy with the way Swiss schools work. Only a few children are streamed to stay in school and study to A-level and go to Uni, very different to the UK.

For example, both me and my sister went to State school in the UK, both went to Uni and got 1st/2:1 degrees. My husband went to school in Switzerland and none of him and his 4 siblings even studied to a-level level, never mind uni. Nothing wrong with that.... but different to the UK.
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Old 30.07.2015, 19:45
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This is your reason for moving to Switzerland??

I went to a State School in the UK and it was a lot stricter and more academic than any of the schools I've come across in Switzerland.... including a private school in Switzerland.

I'm not sure what you want from a school for your children, but the Swiss school system is very different from the British system. Not that that is bad.. it just depends what you want. If you are used to the British system, you might not be happy with the way Swiss schools work. Only a few children are streamed to stay in school and study to A-level and go to Uni, very different to the UK.

For example, both me and my sister went to State school in the UK, both went to Uni and got 1st/2:1 degrees. My husband went to school in Switzerland and none of him and his 4 siblings even studied to a-level level, never mind uni. Nothing wrong with that.... but different to the UK.
UK state funded schools are rubbish unless you're prepared to fork out £1-2m for a below average house in a decent catchment area. Also, the focus of state funded education in the UK is no longer about educating your children (with the exception of grammar schools) but about social engineering: making sure that your kids are good little socialists who feel ashamed of their own culture/heritage; preaching the wonders of "diversity & equality"; and promoting homosexuality.

Almost everyone in the UK gets a 2:1 or a 1st these days so that's irrelevant to me. What really strikes me is the lack of state educated people in the top professions in the UK: almost every lawyer; banker; consultant and accountant I meet through my job is either private school educated or from abroad. In fact, only 7% of children in the UK attend private school but that 7% makes up 50% of the intake at Oxbridge.

With regards to Switzerland, it ranks far ahead of the UK in the global PISA rankings for education...specifically in math and science (the UK ranks pitifully low here).

But thanks anyway for your reply!

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Use a rate of 2chf to £, that's how much most things will cost on a day to day basis.
Thanks. I'm actually in the process of doing a detailed analysis of how much things will cost based on the budget I posted above and will let you know if the 2:1 ratio holds true.

Thanks for your help!

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you should be fine on that, much the same as at home, you will be ok but not well off.

2 other factors to consider, one is your partner will most likely struggle to get any sort of employment (tons of threads on that too) which can lead to domestic stress. Made worse by the fact that childcare here is astronomically expensive, and the waiting lists can be long (or you might be lucky). We pay chf 2600 per month per child, so you might need to factor that in too.

good luck on making the decision and let me know if you come and fancy a beer
Thanks, you're right about the wife situation and it's been a big talking point. Child care in London is pricey too and 5 day's a week care in London would cost us close to 1,500/month which at today's FX rate is cCHF2,000 so not far off.

Re the beer, if I can afford one after all the monthly outgoings will drop you a message ;-)

Last edited by 3Wishes; 30.07.2015 at 22:07. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 30.07.2015, 20:07
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

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almost every lawyer; banker; consultant and accountant I meet through my job is either private school educated or from abroad.
Both my sister and her fiancé are state school educated Lawyers thanks very much!
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Old 30.07.2015, 20:08
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

Funny that; after teaching for 20 years in the U.K. state sector, I don't recall any of the things you mention. Hard work ethics, academic excellence, respect of others (and yes, of their differences, just like you hope not to be treated badly in Switzerland because you are different), punctuality, commitment, pride of work well done were certainly the priorities.


My two children went in what you call "your average school" (put politely) and the eldest got his 40+ UCAS points required for Oxbridge. I don't judge what I don't know, so I won't make any comment on Private Schools in the U.K., some of which I know have an excellent reputation whilst others don't produce the sharpest cookies on this planet.


It would be nice not to put down every state school, because like private schools, you can have top notch and bin schools.
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Old 30.07.2015, 23:34
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

I'd started to write a detailed posting about the cost of living in Geneva and was going to say that with a salary of 140k before you even start adding in your expected bonuses you'd be more than fine. But after reading this;

"UK state funded schools are rubbish unless you're prepared to fork out £1-2m for a below average house in a decent catchment area. Also, the focus of state funded education in the UK is no longer about educating your children (with the exception of grammar schools) but about social engineering: making sure that your kids are good little socialists who feel ashamed of their own culture/heritage; preaching the wonders of "diversity & equality"; and promoting homosexuality."

I don't think I'll bother.
I don't 'groan' people, never have, never will.... but I came close.

One; have you actually seen the price of housing in Geneva?
Two; a homophobic attitude such as that is simply not welcome here.

Note to mods: Sorry I had to cut and paste. The quote system doesn't seem to be working at the moment.


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Old 30.07.2015, 23:50
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

I am Swiss- born, bred and educated to Maturité (sort of A'Level equivalent but totally different) ... and trained to teach at secondary level, 6th Form specialist in the UK- with 30+ experience. And our daughters went to UK State schools, and are both working at very Senior level in the UK. This:

'UK state funded schools are rubbish unless you're prepared to fork out £1-2m for a below average house in a decent catchment area. Also, the focus of state funded education in the UK is no longer about educating your children (with the exception of grammar schools) but about social engineering: making sure that your kids are good little socialists who feel ashamed of their own culture/heritage; preaching the wonders of "diversity & equality"; and promoting homosexuality.

Almost everyone in the UK gets a 2:1 or a 1st these days so that's irrelevant to me. What really strikes me is the lack of state educated people in the top professions in the UK: almost every lawyer; banker; consultant and accountant I meet through my job is either private school educated or from abroad'

is beyond belief. You obviously know very different Senior managers than I do, and have not attended the wonderful schools where I worked. Thanks.
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Old 31.07.2015, 00:11
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

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Both my sister and her fiancé are state school educated Lawyers thanks very much!
As I stated in my post "almost" every lawyer.....I don't recall saying that 100% of lawyers are public school educated.
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Old 31.07.2015, 00:14
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

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I am Swiss- born, bred and educated to Maturité (sort of A'Level equivalent but totally different) ... and trained to teach at secondary level, 6th Form specialist in the UK- with 30+ experience. And our daughters went to UK State schools, and are both working at very Senior level in the UK. This:

'UK state funded schools are rubbish unless you're prepared to fork out £1-2m for a below average house in a decent catchment area. Also, the focus of state funded education in the UK is no longer about educating your children (with the exception of grammar schools) but about social engineering: making sure that your kids are good little socialists who feel ashamed of their own culture/heritage; preaching the wonders of "diversity & equality"; and promoting homosexuality.

Almost everyone in the UK gets a 2:1 or a 1st these days so that's irrelevant to me. What really strikes me is the lack of state educated people in the top professions in the UK: almost every lawyer; banker; consultant and accountant I meet through my job is either private school educated or from abroad'

is beyond belief. You obviously know very different Senior managers than I do, and have not attended the wonderful schools where I worked. Thanks.
The facts may be unpleasant but they speak for themselves. 7% of children in the UK attend private schools and they comprise 50% of the Oxbridge intake.....almost every single person of importance in the UK has gone down the private school followed by Oxbridge route.....including our current Prime Minister and almost all of the front bench of both major political parties.
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Old 31.07.2015, 00:18
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

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I'd started to write a detailed posting about the cost of living in Geneva and was going to say that with a salary of 140k before you even start adding in your expected bonuses you'd be more than fine. But after reading this;

"UK state funded schools are rubbish unless you're prepared to fork out £1-2m for a below average house in a decent catchment area. Also, the focus of state funded education in the UK is no longer about educating your children (with the exception of grammar schools) but about social engineering: making sure that your kids are good little socialists who feel ashamed of their own culture/heritage; preaching the wonders of "diversity & equality"; and promoting homosexuality."

I don't think I'll bother.
I don't 'groan' people, never have, never will.... but I came close.

One; have you actually seen the price of housing in Geneva?
Two; a homophobic attitude such as that is simply not welcome here.

Note to mods: Sorry I had to cut and paste. The quote system doesn't seem to be working at the moment.


I have no problem with homosexuality, but as a Christian I don't want schools or teachers to usurp parents in deciding what values or beliefs we impart on our children. I want schools to equip our kids with the skills they need to compete in a global economy and leave culture and values to parents. In the UK we now have Ofsted inspectors going into schools and asking 10 year old children if they know what lesbians do or if they feel comfortable in their body.....all the while the UK slides down the PISA global educational rankings and needs to import more skilled talent from other countries with superior educational systems.
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Old 31.07.2015, 00:22
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

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Funny that; after teaching for 20 years in the U.K. state sector, I don't recall any of the things you mention. Hard work ethics, academic excellence, respect of others (and yes, of their differences, just like you hope not to be treated badly in Switzerland because you are different), punctuality, commitment, pride of work well done were certainly the priorities.


My two children went in what you call "your average school" (put politely) and the eldest got his 40+ UCAS points required for Oxbridge. I don't judge what I don't know, so I won't make any comment on Private Schools in the U.K., some of which I know have an excellent reputation whilst others don't produce the sharpest cookies on this planet.


It would be nice not to put down every state school, because like private schools, you can have top notch and bin schools.
As I stated in my original post, if you're willing to shell out £1-2m on a below average house in a good catchment area you can access excellent state school education. Unfortunately there is a wide discrepancy in standards between state schools in the UK. In any event the facts speak for themselves: 7% of children in the UK attend private schools and they make up 50% of the annual Oxbridge intake. Facts can't be disputed.
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Old 31.07.2015, 00:30
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

1) I am from London
2) so far have not been to Geneva or that side of Switzerland, but I do believe housing is expensive there, from my readings on the EF
3) I do have children, but have siblings do
4) If your interest is financial then in the longterm, perhaps in my ignorance of your profession & who you know, from what I have read on the EF, the place to earn the high money is London.

All the above said, in my opinion over the recent years that I have got to know it, Switzerland is a great place for children.

On another thread sometime back, a mother explained how the teacher scolded her for not allowing her 5 year to walk independently to school. Children from a young age have independence. It is so nice when they pass one and give their little Swiss Child Greeting & carry on. One might think there is no one watching, but in my opinion, if anyone interferred with that child, there would be a million repercussions for that person.

If you know somewhere in London or close, like Berkshire, where concerned parents are not acting like mini cab drivers (or to know they are are in safe company) for their children up to the age of teenagers & possibly higher - let me know.

Switzerland is expensive, but there are also ways to live more economically for some things, like home cooking, picnics out as a family for which there are many places especially in the summer, even public barbeque areas - you bring the food and cook there in somewhere like park, beside a lake. Shopping you can learn about as you go along.

Two main things you need to check, how much will the rental of property be for your location, availability and the type of accommodation, as well as probably you will need to furnish it, including light fittings & possibly the kitchen white goods.

The second thing is a discussion with your wife - if she is unable to work, how she might feel, cope with that?
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Old 31.07.2015, 00:32
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Re: London to Geneva (cost of living)

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In any event the facts speak for themselves: 7% of children in the UK attend private schools and they make up 50% of the annual Oxbridge intake. Facts can't be disputed.
Or, it is more likely to do with the Oxbridge selection procedure.

Not only do 50% of entrants come form private schools, but most of them are from the top 3 public schools. This is more likely to do with old links between these schools and the Universities and a biased selection procedure, than the Students education.

In 2000, Oxford University became embroiled in the Laura Spence Affair, a controversy caused by Oxford's rejection of a high-flying state-school pupil Laura Spence to study medicine amid allegations of elitism. Spence was later offered a £65,000 scholarship to Harvard.
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