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  #101  
Old 04.09.2015, 07:22
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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Well, if we are going to get back "on topic" and focus on questionable male sociology, I have a question. What is actually missing in today's society? Males who are gentle, or males who are men?

Sometimes in the gym, I say "If you are 100% sure that you are going to finish the set, you aren't lifting enough." And while I know that barbells aren't for everybody, I think that every male should partake in some activity which reminds him how to man up and embrace a bit of risk and/or pain.

It seems to me that, if you are manly, you can choose to be a gentleman or an asshole, and manners mean more when they are a choice.

Hmn... Males who are men don't necessarily have to exclude gentleness, and for me at least, "manning up" is more the willingness to accept (and master) a challenge than risktaking and/or pain tolerance. "Challenge" does not mean reaching the next level of Doom, and embracing risk does not mean going bungy jumping (unless you build the tower and bungy yourself).


"Plant a tree, build a house, have a child", Kipling's "If" and e.e. cummings "my father moved through dooms of love" are more along my line. Old fashioned I know, but with a core of eternal truth.


I'm not sure about "choosing" between being a gentleman or not, if integrity, capability and decency are your anchors you don't start moving them about.


Being as good as your word or doing the right thing even when it is to your disadvantage belong in the mix too.


No idea of if the above is what women are talking when they use the term "gentlemen", or "men"... but it works for me.


The problem is "it works for me" is so insular... it reminds me of the Bill Cosby quip about Cocaine intensifying your personality.
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  #102  
Old 04.09.2015, 07:35
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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I grab mine when I'm bored.
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This is just hilarious guys,... feels like we got to the tower of Basel
You're exaggerating. You must be. I hope.
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  #103  
Old 04.09.2015, 07:59
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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Are American/Canadian/English-men more gentlemen like than the Swiss men? I am Swiss myself but I do not get Swiss men at all. Sometimes I feel like you gotta be happy if they happen to not let the door hit your face when entering the restaurant first... It`s the small things that matter, don`t they? Swiss guys don`t seem to be educated in this regard. How come American/Canadian/English men know more reagrding nice gestures?
Maybe people are sick about the men and women equal rights speech all the time and about being treated equally.....
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  #104  
Old 04.09.2015, 08:08
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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Maybe people are sick about the men and women equal rights speech all the time and about being treated equally.....
Thats bullshit, I open doors for men and women alike, really its about manners, good manners. I shouldn't say it, but I will, the Germans and Swiss are not that good mannered towards strangers, friends yes, but out on the street its a dog eat dog world.

One of my Gran's often used proverbs was "manners maketh the man", and it applies equally to women. My Nan was the best
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  #105  
Old 04.09.2015, 08:48
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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Well, if we are going to get back "on topic" and focus on questionable male sociology, I have a question. What is actually missing in today's society? Males who are gentle, or males who are men?

Sometimes in the gym, I say "If you are 100% sure that you are going to finish the set, you aren't lifting enough." And while I know that barbells aren't for everybody, I think that every male should partake in some activity which reminds him how to man up and embrace a bit of risk and/or pain.

It seems to me that, if you are manly, you can choose to be a gentleman or an asshole, and manners mean more when they are a choice.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
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  #106  
Old 04.09.2015, 13:15
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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Thats bullshit, I open doors for men and women alike, really its about manners, good manners. I shouldn't say it, but I will, the Germans and Swiss are not that good mannered towards strangers, friends yes, but out on the street its a dog eat dog world.

One of my Gran's often used proverbs was "manners maketh the man", and it applies equally to women. My Nan was the best
It always seemed to be good manners to me to open doors for people with their arms full, or just because someone is behind me. It's just polite, i have no idea what it has to do with being a man, it's about being a decent human being.

Also, why would I wanted a gruff idiot that grunts all the time? The concepts of femininity are masculinity are just gross. Basically, men that think with their penis and vain women. Nobody wants such caricatures in real life. If we really think about it, we want the closest thing to equality and respect. Those are the happy marriages.
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  #107  
Old 04.09.2015, 13:31
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

Have you seen the latest divorce rate figures and how the courts treat men thereafter with regards to division of assets, custody of kids, visitation rights, etc? Who in their right mind would settle down with a woman these days? Logically, it is an awful deal.

Love 'em and leave 'em is the more rational choice and apparently the more successful one since younger women love riding the cock carousel. I understand that this behaviour seems ungentlemanly but I suppose that you have to 'man up' and accept that since you are now on an equal footing with men. Trying to change that through social engineering will cause men to distance themselves further.

Nevertheless, many do make the leap in the name of 'love' so there is hope for you. Good luck!
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  #108  
Old 04.09.2015, 13:33
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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Have you seen the latest divorce rate figures and how the courts treat men thereafter with regards to division of assets, custody of kids, visitation rights, etc? Who in their right mind would settle down with a woman these days? Logically, it is an awful deal.
It's only an awful deal if you divorce.


Otherwise it's quite nice, actually.
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  #109  
Old 04.09.2015, 13:36
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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It's only an awful deal if you divorce.


Otherwise it's quite nice, actually.
So is winning the lottery. What's your point?
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  #110  
Old 04.09.2015, 13:39
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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It's only an awful deal if you divorce.
... and then only if you get it all wrong. Don't believe everything you read; not every husband gets screwed in divorce in Switzerland (cue "first-and-last-time-my-wife-screwed-me" jokes).
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  #111  
Old 04.09.2015, 13:40
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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So is winning the lottery. What's your point?
The point is that living one's life in the expectation of disaster turns one into a bitter, twisted woman-hater, while those of us who live life as it comes rather enjoy the company of our wives and girlfriends.
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  #112  
Old 04.09.2015, 13:53
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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Also, why would I wanted a gruff idiot that grunts all the time? The concepts of femininity are masculinity are just gross. Basically, men that think with their penis and vain women. Nobody wants such caricatures in real life. If we really think about it, we want the closest thing to equality and respect. Those are the happy marriages.

Only an unattractive, socially awkward and unwanted woman will say something like this. I´m willing to bet that you were one of those ignored bad-looking girls in school that never got a chance to date the cool guys

Are you using equality/feminism as an excuse for being ugly?
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  #113  
Old 04.09.2015, 14:00
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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The point is that living one's life in the expectation of disaster turns one into a bitter, twisted woman-hater, while those of us who live life as it comes rather enjoy the company of our wives and girlfriends.
Dougal's logic: Intelligent = bitter, twisted woman-hater.

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  #114  
Old 04.09.2015, 14:01
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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Dougal's logic: Intelligent = bitter, twisted woman-hater.


There's nothing intelligent about deferring happiness in fear of what might go wrong.
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  #115  
Old 04.09.2015, 14:05
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

The logical part of me avoids marriage at all costs---the risks just outweigh the benefits. Although I also never quite understood the concept of marriage: for me, if one needs a signed piece of paper and a ceremony in a church (or however you have it) to prove one's love and commitment, it just doesn't seem that legit to begin with. IMO.

So it seems that I have to live a life of long(ish?) term relationships, and every 5-10 years upgrade to a younger version in case I want to spawn some ankle biters.
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  #116  
Old 04.09.2015, 14:05
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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There's nothing intelligent about deferring happiness in fear of what might go wrong.
You see, your logic is flawed. You assume that my and your happiness lies in settling down. I am perfectly happy with a few sexual partners, none of whom I probably will ever marry.
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  #117  
Old 04.09.2015, 14:11
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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You see, your logic is flawed. You assume that my and your happiness lies in settling down. I am perfectly happy with a few sexual partners, none of whom I probably will ever marry.
A happy slapper?

Fair enough. Horses for courses and all that.

Old age is sure to be a lark.
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  #118  
Old 04.09.2015, 14:13
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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It always seemed to be good manners to me to open doors for people with their arms full, or just because someone is behind me. It's just polite, i have no idea what it has to do with being a man, it's about being a decent human being.

Also, why would I wanted a gruff idiot that grunts all the time? The concepts of femininity are masculinity are just gross. Basically, men that think with their penis and vain women. Nobody wants such caricatures in real life. If we really think about it, we want the closest thing to equality and respect. Those are the happy marriages.
I am a masculine man, and I like my woman feminine, thank you. I find it offensive that people such as yourself try to shame me for that.

Sexual dimorphism in humans is quite strong. If you prefer an androgynous relationship, that is your business, not mine. I observe that androgynous relationships that lack the masculine/feminine polarity do not have a lot of passion, but if that's not your life goal, that's not your life goal. I don't shame you, you don't shame me, okay?

I think David Deida's book, "Way of the Superior Man" provides something of a classical model for men finding purpose in life. The thesis is that men need to find their raison d'êtré first and not focus excessively on women as a goal. The feminine naturally attracts to the masculine drive and energy.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Way-Superi.../dp/1591792576

I.e. a man can be successful with women and polite without being an asshole or a doormat/cash register. And the apparently radical notion that masculine men like feminine women. He wrote a similar book for women, IIRC.
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  #119  
Old 04.09.2015, 14:13
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

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Old age is sure to be a lark.
The way things are going, old age will be filled with even more desperate women
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  #120  
Old 04.09.2015, 14:18
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Re: Where did all the gentlemen go?

that was a brilliant read...a bit abstract but once you get through it a few times (im a slow learner the points tend to shoot at you.
any man who wishes to better himself should read it (non married variety that is )
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