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Old 12.11.2015, 20:33
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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Surely that will then no longer be the OP's problem though? She's not a full time street sweeper, and can only be expected to secure her own bin interior, not the surrounding area?
In theory, it should not be a problem for vc329 as the rubbish is being dumped there by someone else illegally.
I don't see how the authorities can attribute the blame if they have no proof whatsoever. I would definitely not touch the rubbish.

Of course, apart from the threat of a possible fine etc. there is of course the smell and eyesore aspect to consider still. Dustbins with locks on only make this problem worse overall! This is obvious!
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  #22  
Old 12.11.2015, 20:34
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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Thank you everyone for your suggestions.

No, we have not managed to put on a lock today. Our garbage bins don't have latches so we'll have to engineer some way to attach a lock to it.

We're also going to be placing the green "general" bin further away from the street so that they'd have to walk in a bit more if they wanted to throw something away, as well as placing stickers. Hopefully that will deter some of the less brazen ones.

We're contacting the local trash authority so hopefully they can give us some advice, in the meantime we'll be on the lookout for locks.
Last summer somebody left a very used disposable nappy next to our bin, not even in a plastic carrier bag.
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  #23  
Old 12.11.2015, 20:35
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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In theory, it should not be a problem for vc329 as the rubbish is being dumped there by someone else illegally.
I don't see how the authorities can attribute the blame if they have no proof whatsoever. I would definitely not touch the rubbish.

Of course, apart from the threat of a possible fine etc. there is of course the smell and eyesore aspect to consider still. Dustbins with locks on only make this problem worse overall! This is obvious!
Who cares if it's obvious, I would rather secure my bin and not get fined than not secure it and end up with my bin full of crap, get fined, and still have an overflow around it.

Besides, people will be less inclined to dump openly next to or on top of a bin rather than something they can pop it in, and may well look for another bin.
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  #24  
Old 12.11.2015, 20:40
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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Who cares if it's obvious, I would rather secure my bin and not get fined than not secure it and end up with my bin full of crap, get fined, and still have an overflow around it.

Besides, people will be less inclined to dump openly next to or on top of a bin rather than something they can pop it in, and may well look for another bin.
In theory vc329 is not liable for a fine in any case as it someone else's rubbish and it can't be proven that it is coming from vc329. Whether it is in the bin or next to it, is irrelevant. The lock doesn't change anything for the better - on the contrary, smell, tidiness and hygiene-wise it simply makes things much worse.
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  #25  
Old 12.11.2015, 20:42
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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Last summer somebody left a very used disposable nappy next to our bin, not even in a plastic carrier bag.


Perhaps Smoky's friends that needed an urgent solution after reading this thread...
Used disposable diapers ..........?
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  #26  
Old 12.11.2015, 20:52
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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In theory vc329 is not liable for a fine in any case as it someone else's rubbish and it can't be proven that it is coming from vc329. Whether it is in the bin or next to it, is irrelevant. The lock doesn't change anything for the better - on the contrary, smell, tidiness and hygiene-wise it simply makes things much worse.
She has received warnings already... what makes you think that this would not make her liable as the mess is in her bin? How can she prove it's not her rubbish? Answer: she can't.

I see many locked bins in Zurich in my area, and I am guessing it is for the same reason.
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Old 12.11.2015, 21:26
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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She has received warnings already... what makes you think that this would not make her liable as the mess is in her bin? How can she prove it's not her rubbish? Answer: she can't.
Surely it is the authorities who have to prove that vc329 is guilty though and not the other way around! It is the authorities that can't prove that the rubbish belongs to vc329. The onus is on them to find something in the sack that links the contents to the individual. If a fine is received, it can be contested as incorrect and unwarranted in any case. As mentioned, at that stage (if the municipal authorities really want to pursue it) it would become a criminal matter, the case would then be surely be dismissed as there is no proof.

I've seen locked bins in different areas too. But I have also seen non-taxed/non-official sacks of rubbish next to such bins (I've also seen them next to litter bins with very small openings), all of which for the authorities is worse still as it is unsightly and causes an unpleasant smell. Somebody dumping rubbish is not going to worry about a lock on a bin or a very small opening, they are just going to dump it next to said container!

Moreover in larger apartment blocks there are so many people with a key, that rubbish can still be dumped inside the locked bins! It is not possible to know who is doing it if there is nothing in the sack that links the contents back to an individual!
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  #28  
Old 12.11.2015, 21:48
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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Surely it is the authorities who have to prove that vc329 is guilty though and not the other way around! It is the authorities that can't prove that the rubbish belongs to vc329.
And how long have you lived in Switzerland?

It is her private bin. The private bin is unsecured. As far as the authorities will be concerned it will be her responsibility to make sure only her rubbish goes into her private bin.

Why do you think she has already had warnings directly to her address?

Last edited by Richdog; 12.11.2015 at 22:02.
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  #29  
Old 12.11.2015, 22:14
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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And how long have you lived in Switzerland?
More than 15 years! But how is that relevant?!
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It is her private bin. The private bin is unsecured. As far as the authorities will be concerned it will be her responsibility to make sure only her rubbish goes into her private bin.
Why do you think she has already had warnings?
I don't know though that it is actually that simple.
I always thought it was supposed to be 'innocent until proven guilty'!
There were cases in the press a few years ago where fines were annulled for non-taxed rubbish dumped in unlocked bins due to simple lack of proof.

There was also, more significantly, a case six or seven years ago now, where someone received a fine for illegally dumped rubbish just because their name was on something in the sack. But even if the individual's name was on something in the sack, it still doesn't mean to say that that individual dumped that sack illegally! This person successfully argued this and the initial fine was annulled. It then had to be proven that that person actually had handled that sack and/or its contests and was willing to be fingerprinted (evidently the individual was innocent and knew how the law worked), the municipality was nonetheless willing to open a case with the police, and subsequently lost, because the individual's fingerprints were not present on the sack nor on its contents!
This is why I am sure that fines can't (or shouldn't) be just simply handed out willy-nilly! There has to be some proof! Anyone who pays a fine for illegally dumped rubbish that they didn't dump, is blatantly not only admitting to something illegal that they didn't do and blemishing their record, but clearly throwing money away and also allowing the authorities to bully them! It is not only the rubbish that is illegal, but also the fine!

Last edited by plumtree; 12.11.2015 at 22:24.
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  #30  
Old 13.11.2015, 11:02
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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Surely it is the authorities who have to prove that vc329 is guilty though and not the other way around!
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And how long have you lived in Switzerland?
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More than 15 years! But how is that relevant?!
Because it's reasonable to expect anyone who's been here for a while to have gained at least a basic understanding of things like the myth of "innocent until proven guilty" in cases like these.
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  #31  
Old 13.11.2015, 11:04
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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Because it's reasonable to expect anyone who's been here for a while to have gained at least a basic understanding of things like the myth of "innocent until proven guilty" in cases like these.
How is it a myth? Are you saying that the authorities can enforce fines even when there is blatantly no proof?
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  #32  
Old 13.11.2015, 11:06
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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How is it a myth? Are you saying that the authorities can enforce fines even when there is blatantly no proof?
There's a huge amount of empirical evidence to support this, yes.
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  #33  
Old 13.11.2015, 11:08
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

Not for you of course Plumtree- we all know you are totally immune to Swiss law- lucky you.

Yes, if someone does not take the necessary measures to stop their bin being filled with illegal rubbish, and do not discuss this with the authorities to find solutions, the that someone is liable.
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  #34  
Old 13.11.2015, 11:10
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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There's a huge amount of empirical evidence to support this, yes.
Nonetheless, anyone who pays a fine for illegally dumped rubbish that they didn't dump, is blatantly not only admitting to something illegal that they didn't do and blemishing their record, but clearly throwing money away and also allowing the authorities to bully them! It is not only the rubbish that is illegal, but also the fine!
It is quite clear here that even if the practice continues, vc329 does not deserve a fine! It doesn't matter if the rubbish is dumped in the bin (locked/unlocked) or outside of the property. The rubbish does not belong to vc329! Some buildings don't even have bins, let alone lockable ones!
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if someone does not take the necessary measures to stop their bin being filled with illegal rubbish, and do not discuss this with the authorities to find solutions, the that someone is liable.
All vc329 has to do is inform the authorities that the refuse being dumped there does not belong to/is not being generated by that household.

Last edited by plumtree; 13.11.2015 at 11:26.
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Old 13.11.2015, 11:17
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

until you get your locks fitted, would turning the bin round so the lid opens less easily from the street side help a bit?
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  #36  
Old 13.11.2015, 11:56
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

Get a shotgun, handle it the American way!
Soon enough 20mins will make everyone aware that it's your bin and no one else's.
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  #37  
Old 13.11.2015, 12:00
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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Nonetheless, anyone who pays a fine for illegally dumped rubbish that they didn't dump, is blatantly not only admitting to something illegal that they didn't do and blemishing their record, but clearly throwing money away and also allowing the authorities to bully them!
It would be no different in the UK if someone dumped their recycling in your regular black waste bin instead of the blue one... you would be liable. It is not a public bin, it is a private bin, so it IS your responsibility.
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  #38  
Old 13.11.2015, 12:06
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

If it weren't the bin owner's responsibility, nobody would buy the special, colored, legal trash bags and instead just claim "wasn't me!". Plumtree, if you want the neighbors, landlord, gemeinde, and garbage collectors to despise you - go ahead, try to fight against the system. Tell us how it goes. But maybe think it through before you suggest it to the OP.
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Old 13.11.2015, 12:14
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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I wonder if there are traps I can set that spray people with paint and stinkbombs? Would that be too far?
What a brilliant idea. If you find a place that sells them, please post the name here. I can think of several useful applications!
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Old 13.11.2015, 12:14
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Re: Neighbours throwing their trash in our bins - What to do?

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It would be no different in the UK if someone dumped their recycling in your regular black waste bin instead of the blue one... you would be liable. It is not a public bin, it is a private bin, so it IS your responsibility.
You're missing the point.
Some of the trash is being left on top of the bin, next to it and/or in the yard/garden area. Placing a lock on the bin, will in this case, only increase the problem as then all of the rubbish being dumped illegally will be outside of the bin!
If though there are individuals from the same building who, once the lock is fitted and they gain possession of a key, continue to place non-taxed sacks in the bin, the authorities may issue a fine, but then the question is will the authorities fine the building as a whole, or will they open the bags that were placed in the locked bin and try to establish who placed them there?
I raise this point as it is not clear in this case if the individuals who are illegally dumping actually live in the building or not! That still has to be established!
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