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Old 19.11.2015, 13:30
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

Given the comments about seeing a car pull out of the driveway with no child in the back, I'm guessing the OP is a neighbor - and one with a bit of spare time on his/her hands at that.

In that case the solution is simple. "Hey, did you guys have to go out somewhere the other night? I thought I saw your car. Next time just knock on my door as you leave and if I'm in I'll be happy to listen to his baby monitor (das Babyphone hüten) for you. I know how tough it can be with small children."
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Old 19.11.2015, 13:37
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

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I think that perhaps if the parent/s are genuinely doing nothing wrong they won't object if social services check up.
Total nonsense.

I would be pissed as hell, and would find out who did it and take revenge.

Tom
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  #43  
Old 19.11.2015, 14:34
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

Totally agree with MathNut on the best approach in a difficult situation. I've been in a similar situation, of sort. A friend of the Troll didn't seem to have the ideal conditions for growing up. Where we were before, I am 110% certain that someone would have called child services but here, especially for expat families who live an isolated life, it's easy to go under the radar. The family was going through a really rough patch and was not not dealing with it in a good way.

As long as I'm wasn't absolutely certain that there is a real case of abuse/neglect, I just tried to be there a lot for the little boy and his family. Regular playdates and overnight visits, lots of attention and support when he was here, I also made it clear to the mother that she can rely on us if she needs help of any kind. And we kept our eyes open. I would definitely have called social services if I had felt things were not right, but fortunately things stabilised themselves in the end.

I've also noticed that what is acceptable varies a lot from country to country, and in Norway I was often on the "wrong side" of what was supposed to be good upbringing. I guess that's the reason why I try to understand the hows and the whys before judging other people's way of bringing up their kids. And start by offering help before judgement.
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Old 19.11.2015, 14:57
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

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I think that perhaps if the parent/s are genuinely doing nothing wrong they won't object if social services check up.
In my opinion a child of 3 years old should not be left alone.
You're absolutely joking, right???

Social services come knocking at your door to "check if everything is ok" based on the heresay of some nosey tw4t nearby who hasn't the balls to knock on the door personally, ask a question themselves and thus possibly/probably establish they have completely the wrong end of the stick.

I realise I'm not back in the UK and laws here are different, but in the UK when this happens, the unfortunate upshot is that typically it causes an unnecessary amount of undue stress and upset because the authorities have to be seen to take "positive action" regardless of whether there's action to be taken or not. There's little option for authorities to use any discretion, which results in people's good name and reputation being marred because a 3rd person didn't do enough in the first instance to eliminate any misinterpretation of the situation.

Seriously, people need to get a grip of themselves instead of hiding from their own responsibilities. If you have an issue, problem, concern then take some positive action and go challenge it. Don't call other people to try and solve something that has a very real chance of not being broken in the first place. The propensity for people to take an "easy option" and call the Police, Social Services, Authorities etc is just ludicrous.


That said, I do agree that a 3yr old shouldn't be left alone unsupervised. If not so it doesn't come to any physical harm, but also emotionally if/when the aforementioned child realises they're home alone.
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  #45  
Old 19.11.2015, 14:58
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

So much hysteria on this thread. People bringing Baby P into it and equating it to a sleeping child being left alone for half an hour. As if being left alone for 30 minutes was why the tragic events of Baby P happened.


If the OP is so concerned, just 'happen to' pop by when they're out. if somebody opens the door, you're worrying over nothing. If nobody opens the door then get some courage and speak to the people. Volunteer to look after the kid, should they need to pop out. Don't submit an anonymous complaint, because you think it might be possible that something sinister could be going on, when you don't actually have any solid evidence. Peoples lives get ruined with insinuation and implication, in complete absence of evidence.


PS, in Finland its quite common for mothers and fathers to leave the pram with the baby outside on the balcony in winter, when they have friends over or when they get a coffee etc. Its completely safe, and some say even healthier, as it means the baby gets exposed to clean fresh air. Don't assume just because they're doing it differently, that they doing the worst possible thing.
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  #46  
Old 19.11.2015, 15:06
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

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They "operate" because they are sick / Have mental issues, not because someone failed to do something.


.

These were cases of shear, brutal, wanton abuse, not neglect.
Neglect is a form of abuse. As a teacher, with pastoral duties, I have sadly witnessed the crippling negative effect long term neglect can have upon a child. There may not have been "abuse" as you define it, but the consequences were the same. Utterly heartbreaking. And yes, that's even after outside help was sought, provided and the various individuals removed from their situation. And in several cases it was as simple as the first person to know not caring to speak up, let alone do something.[/QUOTE]


I agree with you.

I should have re-phrased my comment. Those were cases "of shear, brutal, wanton violence and physical abuse", as opposed to neglect in the sense of failing to act. :-)
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  #47  
Old 19.11.2015, 15:15
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

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Social services come knocking at your door to "check if everything is ok" based on the heresay of some nosey tw4t nearby who hasn't the balls to knock on the door personally, ask a question themselves and thus possibly/probably establish they have completely the wrong end of the stick.
You're not exactly putting them out, its the job of Social Services to investigate issues no matter how minor. However I fully agree that its better to try and deal with this directly with the parent, but if the OP is left in any doubt then they should go straight to social services. They are trained to spot neglect and abuse (i.e. the hidden signs that many of us would miss).

It may not be pleasant for the parent of the child, and it may be a big nothing, but to use the old cliche its better to be safe than sorry and I hope any good parent would understand that.
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  #48  
Old 19.11.2015, 15:51
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

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In that case the solution is simple. "Hey, did you guys have to go out somewhere the other night? I thought I saw your car. Next time just knock on my door as you leave and if I'm in I'll be happy to listen to his baby monitor (das Babyphone hüten) for you. I know how tough it can be with small children."
What would you do if they didn't have a baby monitor? Aren't you being a bit presumptuous?
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Old 19.11.2015, 15:53
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

Let's not forget that while we deliberate about wether or not it is acceptable to leave a child alone, a 3 year old toddler is being left alone. This child has no choice in this matter. Also, even although there might be no immediate physical danger, the child my suffer emotional damage - abandonment, for example
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Old 19.11.2015, 16:14
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

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What would you do if they didn't have a baby monitor?
Sit in their living room and read a book?

But sitting in my living room reading a book (while listening to a baby monitor) is a far less intrusive suggestion so it's what I'd lead off with.
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Old 19.11.2015, 16:16
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

I find it really strange the number of people that seem to be implying it's ok to leave a 3 year old home alone for anything longer than popping out (even that I'd find a bit worrying).

They get into everything and have little idea of dangers. It's all very well saying that the chance of a fire may be small but surely it's a big enough chance not to risk it.

And the thought of the child waking up and thinking they've been abandoned... horrible. Yes, there may be emergency situations and no family/friends to turn to, but if it's that important take the wee one with you. I don't think there's really an excuse for it - cultural differences shouldn't trump basic safety and common sense.
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Old 19.11.2015, 16:26
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

What if OP hates the parents and wants to cause pain to them by reporting?

How is OP 100% sure the kid was alone in the house?

Look at his profile. Not much information there.

Like many of you I will now start detective work.

I'm now making sociological profile for the OP.

Wait. I'm now certain he is making this up. Prove me wrong!
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Old 19.11.2015, 16:30
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

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Total nonsense.

I would be pissed as hell, and would find out who did it and take revenge.

Tom
Indeed!
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Old 19.11.2015, 16:39
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

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PS, in Finland its quite common for mothers and fathers to leave the pram with the baby outside on the balcony in winter, when they have friends over or when they get a coffee etc. Its completely safe, and some say even healthier, as it means the baby gets exposed to clean fresh air. Don't assume just because they're doing it differently, that they doing the worst possible thing.
I grew up sleeping in a baby carriage on the balcony, too, but parents would peak in every second to see if I have not woken up, it was on the ground floor, too. I do not honestly know anyone who would be ok letting a 3 yr old asleep and walking away from the house, no matter for how long.

Why do people assume a sleeping baby is going to be asleep next minute or ten. Like we can program them. The probability and risk perception I guess gets skewed by stress, or something, baby blues...

Child neglect is a term one should use carefully, on the other hand, abandoning a little kid like this is plain unsafe.
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Old 19.11.2015, 16:45
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

Must admit I'm slightly bemused by the OP, who started a thread that was bound to stir up a wasps nest, asks a couple of questions early on and then nothing since 1.20 this morning.

Anyway....If you're really worried then speak to the parent! They might be grateful for an offer of help (I take it they're on their own as you use the singular), they also might tell you to b***er off and to mind your own business.

It could have been a one-off, an emergency when they didn't want to wake the child (personally I wouldn't have dreamed of leaving him and would have wrapped him up in a blanket and taken him with me; but that's me).

Otherwise, if you really, really think there's a problem then contact the local child services, the police station or library should be able to give you a phone number.

As we're chipping in with anecdotes; in the early '80s one of my son's teachers noticed a pupil had large bruises on her back during a gym lesson, this teacher then spoke to the teacher of a sibling who was apparently often bruised as well. Together they reported their concerns to the social services in Geneva who investigated the family.
They
decided that although in their opinion the father was 'a stern disciplinarian' who freely admitted that he occasionally hit his children it wasn't considered to be outside the norms and nothing was done.
However, around the same time he was reported by a neighbour for beating his pet dalmatians and the dogs were taken away!!!
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Old 19.11.2015, 16:46
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

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You're absolutely joking, right???

Social services come knocking at your door to "check if everything is ok" based on the heresay of some nosey tw4t nearby who hasn't the balls to knock on the door personally, ask a question themselves and thus possibly/probably establish they have completely the wrong end of the stick.

I realise I'm not back in the UK and laws here are different, but in the UK when this happens, the unfortunate upshot is that typically it causes an unnecessary amount of undue stress and upset because the authorities have to be seen to take "positive action" regardless of whether there's action to be taken or not. There's little option for authorities to use any discretion, which results in people's good name and reputation being marred because a 3rd person didn't do enough in the first instance to eliminate any misinterpretation of the situation.

Seriously, people need to get a grip of themselves instead of hiding from their own responsibilities. If you have an issue, problem, concern then take some positive action and go challenge it. Don't call other people to try and solve something that has a very real chance of not being broken in the first place. The propensity for people to take an "easy option" and call the Police, Social Services, Authorities etc is just ludicrous.


That said, I do agree that a 3yr old shouldn't be left alone unsupervised. If not so it doesn't come to any physical harm, but also emotionally if/when the aforementioned child realises they're home alone.
I think this is where culture comes knocking at all our doors. We all have preconceived ideas about child services from our own countries, all of them more or less close to that country's reality. Some places it's a last resort when kids have to be taken away from abusive parents, while in some countries it is designed to provide support an guidance first. But I would guess none of us has been in contact with Swiss child services, and personally I have no idea what kind of programs and practice they have.

Regarding the issue of leaving a sleeping 3-year old alone and go for an hour long drive. To me it is so wrong that it sounds far fetched. It also implies that the OP has been timing the absence, which is kind of creepy. But it would worry me to know that such a small child is left alone, and I would probably speak to the person concerned and offer to babysit (for free) if the need should arise once more. On the other hand, I have left our sleeping son alone when he was 3 years old to run to the store 100m from our house, something I kept quiet about at the time because it's definitely not done in Norway and a neighbour might have called child services on me.

Regarding the threats I wouldn't be so worried in general, unless I had witnessed other worrying episodes (for example the said threats being implemented). I have heard so many hair-rising and empty threats from parents, I can't fathom that they don't see that it's going to bite them in the backside the day the kid realises they are empty threats.
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Old 19.11.2015, 16:58
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

I would be concerned about a 3-year-old left home alone, particularly if the parents went 30km away. But how do you know either of those points are facts? You must be pretty close to the family to know this right? So can you not bring it up with them?

If you have a genuine concern and feel a duty to report anonymously, I would go to the gemeinde building, there is an office in there for social matters, I think
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Old 19.11.2015, 16:59
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

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I think this is where culture comes knocking at all our doors.
This is really true, I actually think Social dept will schedule an interview, max., see how things are without being explicit. I cannot see them "ruining" a family's life at all here.

Cultures knock on our doors, yet - a left alone 3 year old will be probably quite similar, as per getting into troubles on their own, whatever country it is.
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Old 19.11.2015, 17:01
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Re: Child neglect in Canton SZ

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Some places it's a last resort when kids have to be taken away from abusive parents, while in some countries it is designed to provide support an guidance first.

But I would guess none of us has been in contact with Swiss child services, and personally I have no idea what kind of programs and practice they have.
You do not know until you call them and see what happens. It heavely depends on the person that runs the service in the commune. One may go full commando, take the kids away while the other is more calm, reasonable and first tries to asses the situation before action starts. At least you can be sure about one thing, it is always the absolutely wrongest thing they will do, too less and too much.

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Regarding the issue of leaving a sleeping 3-year old alone and go for an hour long drive. To me it is so wrong that it sounds far fetched. It also implies that the OP has been timing the absence, which is kind of creepy..
Not only that, OP thinks of themself as a Goody-two-shoes. where in fact they put the child in as much danger as the parent of the child. Doing nothing and then bragging later about the some should do something is just On the other hand I wonder how OP knew that the child was totally on his own, or was even at home, no babysitter, no relatives etc.

One could even get the impression the offending parent knew exactly that the child was in good hands and under constant supervision by OP.
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Old 19.11.2015, 17:06
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Re: Child abuse in Canton SZ

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What about leaving the house and being 30KM away for 1hr, while the child sleeps?

I mean is this normal?

Maybe i should mind my business when I hear potential threats and a parent leaving the house and returning after 1hr with no child in the rear seat.
Did you see the parent go out without the child?

Perhaps they took the child somewhere for the night (grandparents perhaps?) and so would not have the child in the back when they returned.

Lots of people do that.

How can you be sure the child was in the house? Did you hear it crying or screaming, or waving?

And the creepy bit - how do you know they drove 30Km away?

I;m guessing here but is it your child? Is the person your ex-spouse?
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