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  #181  
Old 13.01.2016, 20:10
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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I have to kill time until my wife is ready to eat so that I can finish cooking dinner.

Tom

And he thought he was important
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  #182  
Old 13.01.2016, 20:11
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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I'm curious.. why would you even invest so much time and effort to please other people on this "anonymous" forum? You call me a troll but you keep "taking the bait".

What drives you to even respond to something you see as not worth your time?
What a VERY, VERY good question! I've asked many of them this before, the one's that I've had run-ins with anyway....myself, I'm really glad you came along because what you've achieved in one post no other (and I mean no other) has in such a short time is that you've brought the whole godamm forum together.. as one....

Now, please may I be the the first one that you thank? Why, because I think you are fantastic and God-like!

Please prove to us you can be nice and we'll all turn it around for you and in our new togetherness green rep the bottom off of you... and remember...

It's nice to be important but it's also important to be nice!
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  #183  
Old 13.01.2016, 20:16
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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...then shoot them down when they do.
Nah. I invite all experiences of Swiss "rudeness" (read: cultural misunderstandings") here.
  #184  
Old 13.01.2016, 20:16
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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"HONEY, what are you doing over there? I'm hungry!"

"Sweetie, I'm just typing up elaborate responses to people I'm arguing with over the internet!"

"Better get over here in the kitchen or you'll be sleeping on the couch!"
Nope, dinner is usually served no earlier than 20:30 (sometimes 22:00)

The artichokes are almost done, however, but still need to cool.

Tom
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  #185  
Old 13.01.2016, 20:19
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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What a VERY, VERY good question! I've asked many of them this before, the one's that I've had run-ins with anyway....myself, I'm really glad you came along because what you've achieved in one post no other (and I mean no other) has in such a short time is that you've brought the whole godamm forum together.. as one....

Now, please may I be the the first one that you thank? Why, because I think you are fantastic and God-like!

Please prove to us you can be nice and we'll all turn it around for you and in our new togetherness green rep the bottom off of you... and remember...

It's nice to be important but it's also important to be nice!
OK, sounds good.
  #186  
Old 13.01.2016, 20:20
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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Nah. I invite all experiences of Swiss "rudeness" (read: cultural misunderstandings") here.
The first page of the thread is still there for everyone to see. Why should anybody take your request seriously now they've seen what they will get for their trouble?
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  #187  
Old 13.01.2016, 20:22
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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Voila! That is the 'elephant' in the room.

This is exactly what I was going to write. you are talking about a subset of 'the Swiss' and though I respect that you want to keep this thread from heading the way of so many other complaint thread..., but sorry this is one of my big complaints!

Swiss does not equal Swiss German!


I don't find 'the Swiss' to be all that rude. Reserved, for sure. Perhaps this is also related to what your cultural background is. there are people who find not smiling all the time to be some sort of crime. Personally i find people who are always smiling look a bit crazy. but then again, I'm from the same grumpy part of the US that Tom is from.

but German speaking Switzerland is 70% of Switzerland
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  #188  
Old 13.01.2016, 20:24
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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but German speaking Switzerland is 70% of Switzerland
So?

In any case, only by population, and not area.

Ticino is one of the largest cantons, both in terms or area AND population.

Tom
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  #189  
Old 13.01.2016, 20:26
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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The first page of the thread is still there for everyone to see. Why should anybody take your request seriously now they've seen what they will get for their trouble?
Right, this is exactly my point: people will get screamed at in this country, online or in person, for questioning or complaining. I just want to challenge the notion that it's OK to treat someone like they're a second-class citizen for daring to question the status quo and demand to be treated as a human being despite being a dirty foreigner.
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  #190  
Old 13.01.2016, 20:32
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

If you're being treated as a second class citizen, you are doing quite well considering that you aren't one!

Tom
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  #191  
Old 13.01.2016, 20:53
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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Why do you insist on being overly dramatic?
Because I'm in Technicolor and I wear a tiara.

Oh... Were you not talking to me?


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but German speaking Switzerland is 70% of Switzerland
So you confirm my math is correct: 70%* does NOT equal 100%.


*if we decide to go with that number.
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  #192  
Old 13.01.2016, 21:04
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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I have to kill time until my wife is ready to eat so that I can finish cooking dinner.

Tom

Hey Tom. Any tips for cooking artichokes?
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  #193  
Old 13.01.2016, 21:08
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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Right, this is exactly my point: people will get screamed at in this country, online or in person, for questioning or complaining. I just want to challenge the notion that it's OK to treat someone like they're a second-class citizen for daring to question the status quo and demand to be treated as a human being despite being a dirty foreigner.
Now, now...

I read that American kids of this particular generation(early 20's) are said to be extremely sensitive to social injustices. I think to the point of imagining things, but that is just my opinion. Regardless, I'd hate for him to continue with this excruciating pain, even if he has created it himself. I will try to cut him some slack.

@ZurichHeatWave: Some people have given you actual advise, but it appears you missed them. Maybe you need to receive in a particular way, so I will try a different approach.

First of all, stop finger pointing. By doing so, you'll miss out on some valuable information.

There's a natural law that has worked for me, and has been reported to work for others. So first of all, imagine how you want the Swiss to react to you. Now on any given opportunity, try to act it out to anybody you run into it. Forget how they react to you, as you have no control over any of that. Just verify that you are happy with how you reacted to them, and that is what you want in return. Continue on doing it, regardless of how they react to you. As it becomes second nature to you, you'll find some reciprocity from unexpected directions.

Avoid the judgemental incrimination of the Swiss, or others. That reflects on you and nobody else. You will get that back on yourself, as you've received back on this thread. It's a waste of energy.

Many of us know what you are talking about, and have learned how to deal with it. We also know there are two parts to it, your attitude and your focus. Those, you need to gain full control of.

Good luck!
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  #194  
Old 13.01.2016, 21:29
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

I'm kinda shocked by this thread. I've found Swiss people to be INCREDIBLY nice, polite and helpful with foreigners. Possibly more so than with each other!
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  #195  
Old 13.01.2016, 21:45
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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I'm kinda shocked by this thread. I've found Swiss people to be INCREDIBLY nice, polite and helpful with foreigners. Possibly more so than with each other!
I'm guessing you probably don't behave like a jerk though? It makes a difference.
Plus you're in Romandie.
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  #196  
Old 13.01.2016, 21:48
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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.

So, I've lived in Switzerland for a good chunk of time now and I still cannot fully process how rude/cold people are, at least in the big cities. I've tried my best to adapt to this, but so far my strategies have not worked. I've tried:

1. being friendly and polite

This does not work because when you are overly friendly, people think you want something from them.

2a. Trying my best to exclusively converse in German

This backfires because high German is generally frowned upon and will be met with a sort of disdain for whatever reason. Inability to understand Swiss-german is, I think, a big factor in the rudeness.

2b. Asking to speak English

This doesn't work, because people inevitably say "my English isn't so good" or "but it's inconvenient for me" or something similar

3. Begging

This invariably fails, as people seem to be very keen on rules, and anything that is perceived as you trying to bend them, no matter how desperate your situation, in my experience will be met with nothing but apathy at best.

4. Being cold or aggressive

This one has been the most effective, as people either back off, or they respond in kind; at least it's fair as nobody is getting the short end of the stick

Is there a way that you've found works for inspiring warmth and empathy in people? Perhaps my German skills aren't good enough or my grasp of the culture (including germanic-style humor) is lacking to do this properly

Seriously. How to make day to day interactions more pleasant? Or is there no silver bullet?

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Right, this is exactly my point: people will get screamed at in this country, online or in person, for questioning or complaining. I just want to challenge the notion that it's OK to treat someone like they're a second-class citizen for daring to question the status quo and demand to be treated as a human being despite being a dirty foreigner.

Me again. *waves*


You didn't challenge the status quo (other rock bands are available...) you asked for advice about how to integrate into your new society/how to kill werewolves.


Advice was given, even after you were a little snippy.
Advice was still given even after you were downright antagonistic.


Fun was then poked.
Sarcasm happened.
Name calling began.




At no point was there screaming. At no point were you told that your opinion did not have merit. You haven't done a whole lot of questioning either, or discussing for that matter (something else you complained about earlier).


What did happen was that you steadfastly refused to respond to the advice and well-meaning comments, instead preferring to take the stance of the injured, "got at" party.


At the risk of repeating myself, what exactly do you want, apart from forum infamy?


You should have learned at a very young age that despite wishing it to be so, you aren't actually the centre of the universe. We are all the centres of our own universes and they keep bumping up against each other. Friction happens. If we're lucky, other types of friction happens too. The trick is to learn how to get along - and how to get along with those we may not see eye to eye with is a key life skill. And that is what countless people have been saying in this whole entire beastie of a thread.
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  #197  
Old 13.01.2016, 21:55
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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... treat someone like they're a second-class citizen ..
You feel you're a second class citizen? I see the problem. You've got delusions of adequacy.
  #198  
Old 13.01.2016, 21:57
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

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I'm kinda shocked by this thread. I've found Swiss people to be INCREDIBLY nice, polite and helpful with foreigners. Possibly more so than with each other!
Same here. And I live in Zürich. And I have a kid. People have never been anything but polite and helpful. Yes, they don't do small talk like the baker in Paris did, but I can honestly say I've never felt as was treated like a second class citizen or that people were in any way ruder than elsewhere in the world. And believe me, my German, high or otherwise, is crappy, and I've had numerous contacts with authorities, the management company, workers, the school, doctors...plenty of occasions to experience what you describe, but no, never.

I put it down to expectations based on your background. If you're used to the extremely friendly and forward contact that you get between people innthe US, many (most?) European countries will seem cold. On the other, once you've lived on this side of the Atlantic for a whil (as I have), the American friendliness and politeness easily becomes too much. Have you lived in another country before? It's my 5th besides my homeland; let's say I learned to breath in, breath out and observe what's going on around me.

As I wrote earlier, my only advice is to relax, be friendly and don't sweat it. The codes will come to you once you stop judging and start understanding how things work here. You're one person against 8 million Swiss, you can't win this war, in as much a there is one.

I'm not going to comment on the reactions you're getting on the forum other than to say that I've never had problems with any of the other members. I sometimes feel the urge to write things using an acidic tone, as I would in real life, but in writing at least I try to practice the art of thinking before spitting things out (Trollefar would argue that I should do it when I open my mouth as well), stay polite and not attacking people directly.
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  #199  
Old 13.01.2016, 22:01
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

We had a next door neighbor who is Swiss & just happened to be a psychologist. When I brought this subject up to her a few years back, she agreed that the Swiss people tend to be on the cold, rude side ( thus the lack of customer service everywhere) BUT she said that she(they) are just used to it, so they don't notice it like others would.
All Swiss are not this way of course, my neighbor was definitely warm and friendly.
Also, my Swiss in laws complain about the lack of customer service part all the time but they also say those people are all foreigners
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Old 13.01.2016, 22:08
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - or - Swiss Rudeness

Your first post was actually quite good and I thanked you for it.

Your second post was quite rude so I retracted my original thanks.

Your third post continued to be rude so I got bored, jumped to the tenth page and decided to write this.

Try smiling. You'll be surprised how many people smile back, even in mean old Switzerand.
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