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  #481  
Old 12.04.2016, 15:18
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/5816...-depuis-10-ans

The woman had been wearing the total veil (niqab) for over 9 years and was stopped and fined while driving, as the police said she lacked sufficiently safe vision to be driving.
6 years ago.

If, in 6 years, the apocalypse has progressed from someone appealing a decision to pull over a woman while driving wearing a niqab, to a couple of kids not shaking hands then i think, maybe, just maybe, Europe can overcome this greatest challenge of our history.
  #482  
Old 12.04.2016, 15:21
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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I dont think anyone on this forum has ever accused Odile of being belligerent. congrats, you're the first.
Clearly you haven't really been following this thread then (it shows). Nor the washing machine thread ...
In fact, other than pick a fight on this thread, I'm wondering if you have any valid contribution to make.
You clearly know nothing about French village schools, nor the debate that's been raging here about eating Halal (that's where reading a decent press can help).
You have made impolite allegations regarding my parenting - once again THERE WAS NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE to the school meal if I wanted my children to have a hot meal. No-one mentioned force-feeding, only you (paranoia, hallucinations?). Young children need to eat at lunchtime (or don't you think so?). Mine do, anyway.
Changing schools was NOT a viable option. But of course, the natural course when your civil liberties are gradually being eroded is to simply run away. Bravo for that brilliant suggestion!
Your parting shot at intolerance of stupidity is most pathetic. Since despite all your posturing, there is no content in anything that you've written. Resorting to insults is the sure sign of a meagre intellect. I shall post links to validate what I wrote, and allow you and Odile to pretend that pretty coloured headscarves are all that is at stake here.
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  #483  
Old 12.04.2016, 15:32
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Your parting shot at intolerance of stupidity is most pathetic. Since despite all your posturing, there is no content in anything that you've written. Resorting to insults is the sure sign of a meagre intellect. I shall post links to validate what I wrote, and allow you and Odile to pretend that pretty coloured headscarves are all that is at stake here.

Who on earth has even began to say this??? Truly.

And what on earth has any of this got to do with washing-machines (installed without owner's permission) - to wash that niquab worn for 9 years non-stop? Really.

I do hope you do look at the amazing work done by Latifa around France, and her despair at how daily rejection is pushing young arabs/North Africans into the arms of radicalisation in France. And look again- at her scarf- and her eyes- and see what matters in her heart and soul, as a mother. I am so happy that John Kerry saw beyond the scarf, and so many French politicians and others too. She deserves massive support for the work she does.
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Old 12.04.2016, 15:33
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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If, in 6 years, the apocalypse has progressed from someone appealing a decision to pull over a woman while driving wearing a niqab, to a couple of kids not shaking hands then i think, maybe, just maybe, Europe can overcome this greatest challenge of our history.
Well, how many young people have left for Syria in the last 6 years?
We had last November's débacle, the recent bombings in Belgium, and are now uncovering a network so vast and so dangerous that it will take all Europe's resources to prevent more attacks on cities that have already been identified as targets.
But go back to pretending it's just about 'Halal vegetables'. You're hilarious.
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Old 12.04.2016, 15:47
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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(...)


And this is just March-April 2016, and just in the UK (apart from the molenbeek case where she was run over with a car).

Thanks, will read the links.

Anything from CH, too? (I'm interested as I don't think UK and CH can quite be compared)
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Old 12.04.2016, 15:47
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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1. You can choose - make them a packed lunch. No one is force-feeding your kids.
2. Jewish kids who go to jewish schools do eat Jewish food, with no choice. non-jewish kids who go to jewish schools also eat kosher food. The difference is that its not as fashionable to hate jews, so no one cares.
1. Why should the majority adapt ot the minority ? Kids who want Halal/Kosher/Vegan/Gentech-free should bring their packed lunch while the majority eats their cheeseburgers.

2. "not as fashionable to hate jews". Unfortunately, it's very fashionable and has been millennia. Practically compulsory in Muslim countries, very widely spread in Muslim communities in the west, acceptable in major political parties in the west (UK's Corbyn has many antisemite friends, Liberal-Democrart baroness Tonge blamed Israel for stealing organs in Haiti...)
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  #487  
Old 12.04.2016, 15:49
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Clearly you haven't really been following this thread then (it shows). Nor the washing machine thread ...
In fact, other than pick a fight on this thread, I'm wondering if you have any valid contribution to make.
You clearly know nothing about French village schools, nor the debate that's been raging here about eating Halal (that's where reading a decent press can help).
You have made impolite allegations regarding my parenting - once again THERE WAS NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE to the school meal if I wanted my children to have a hot meal. No-one mentioned force-feeding, only you (paranoia, hallucinations?). Young children need to eat at lunchtime (or don't you think so?). Mine do, anyway.
Changing schools was NOT a viable option. But of course, the natural course when your civil liberties are gradually being eroded is to simply run away. Bravo for that brilliant suggestion!
Your parting shot at intolerance of stupidity is most pathetic. Since despite all your posturing, there is no content in anything that you've written. Resorting to insults is the sure sign of a meagre intellect. I shall post links to validate what I wrote, and allow you and Odile to pretend that pretty coloured headscarves are all that is at stake here.
i confess, washing machines have not been at the forefront of my mind. But i do remember an old teacher of mine saying 'if one person is unpleasant to you, they have bad manners. If more than one person is unpleasant to you, you're just unpleasant'. Its more than one person calling you unpleasant, i believe.

I've made plenty of contribution my dear, I've even made your contributions for you. that you choose to ignore it and stick your head in the sand is testament only to your (in)ability to actually challenge my responses.

I haven't made an impolite allegation, I've made an outright rude observation. You seem to want us to believe the school gave you no other choice whatsoever. I find it too incredulous to believe, that the same school that would go out of their way to accommodate a small number of Muslim students, would not extent any flexibility at all to a non-muslim parent. I find it too incredulous to believe, that they would actively forbid you to feed your own children as you saw fit. I find it too ridiculous to think all this would occur with nary a mention in the press, when a simple handshake issue makes the international news.

I am a firm believer in Occams razor - and in this case the razor cuts only one way: You wont take responsibility for feeding your children as you wish them to be fed, but you see no issue in complaining about those that do try and feed your children. The schools primary function is not to pick up after lackadaisical parents, it is to educate. They do not need to provide food that meets the wishes of the parents; they need to provide a reasonable standard of food to keep the kids going over the day. The school does that. No one forces your child to go to that school - you may transfer them to a school who's dietary policy you agree with. But you wont. You will continue complaining, but not actually stick to your own principles and take your children out of what you claim is a damaging environment, or even provide them the food you agree with. You will actually leave your children in an environment you consider damaging. That is the sort of parenting hypocrisy that is far more damaging to society than a couple of teenagers making an arse of themselves.

Civil liberties? Im sorry, did i miss something? Are your kids forced to sit on a 'non-muslims only' bus? Are they forced to pray to mecca? Are they require to proclaim their faith each morning? This is not an issue of civil liberties at all. You cheapen and mock all those who sacrificed so that we could have civil liberties, when you compare your petulant tantrum to the lives that were given in the name of civil liberties.

The positive reputation i have received on this thread, that far outweighs the negative reputation you proffered, suggests that my contribution is perhaps a smidgen more substantial then you tell yourself.

You shall post links, and i shall post responses showing those links to be utter twaddle. Carry on.
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  #488  
Old 12.04.2016, 15:52
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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1. Why should the majority adapt ot the minority ? Kids who want Halal/Kosher/Vegan/Gentech-free should bring their packed lunch while the majority eats their cheeseburgers.

2. "not as fashionable to hate jews". Unfortunately, it's very fashionable and has been millennia. Practically compulsory in Muslim countries, very widely spread in Muslim communities in the west, acceptable in major political parties in the west (UK's Corbyn has many antisemite friends, Liberal-Democrart baroness Tonge blamed Israel for stealing organs in Haiti...)
The majority didn't do the adapting, the school did. Take your tantrum to the school, dont blame the kids.

Attacks on Jews gets reported in mainstream media because everyone is horrified about it. Attacks on Muslims barely gets a mention in the funny pages at the back.
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Old 12.04.2016, 15:54
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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i confess, washing machines have not been at the forefront of my mind. But i do remember an old teacher of mine saying 'if one person is unpleasant to you, they have bad manners. If more than one person is unpleasant to you, you're just unpleasant'. Its more than one person calling you unpleasant, i believe.

I've made plenty of contribution my dear, I've even made your contributions for you. that you choose to ignore it and stick your head in the sand is testament only to your (in)ability to actually challenge my responses.

I haven't made an impolite allegation, I've made an outright rude observation. You seem to want us to believe the school gave you no other choice whatsoever. I find it too incredulous to believe, that the same school that would go out of their way to accommodate a small number of Muslim students, would not extent any flexibility at all to a non-muslim parent. I find it too incredulous to believe, that they would actively forbid you to feed your own children as you saw fit. I find it too ridiculous to think all this would occur with nary a mention in the press, when a simple handshake issue makes the international news.

I am a firm believer in Occams razor - and in this case the razor cuts only one way: You wont take responsibility for feeding your children as you wish them to be fed, but you see no issue in complaining about those that do try and feed your children. The schools primary function is not to pick up after lackadaisical parents, it is to educate. They do not need to provide food that meets the wishes of the parents; they need to provide a reasonable standard of food to keep the kids going over the day. The school does that. No one forces your child to go to that school - you may transfer them to a school who's dietary policy you agree with. But you wont. You will continue complaining, but not actually stick to your own principles and take your children out of what you claim is a damaging environment, or even provide them the food you agree with. You will actually leave your children in an environment you consider damaging. That is the sort of parenting hypocrisy that is far more damaging to society than a couple of teenagers making an arse of themselves.

Civil liberties? Im sorry, did i miss something? Are your kids forced to sit on a 'non-muslims only' bus? Are they forced to pray to mecca? Are they require to proclaim their faith each morning? This is not an issue of civil liberties at all. You cheapen and mock all those who sacrificed so that we could have civil liberties, when you compare your petulant tantrum to the lives that were given in the name of civil liberties.

The positive reputation i have received on this thread, that far outweighs the negative reputation you proffered, suggests that my contribution is perhaps a smidgen more substantial then you tell yourself.

You shall post links, and i shall post responses showing those links to be utter twaddle. Carry on.
Right. So, you think that the kids should have to change schools if they don't want to shake a female teacher's hand?
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Old 12.04.2016, 15:56
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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i confess, washing machines have not been at the forefront of my mind. But i do remember an old teacher of mine saying 'if one person is unpleasant to you, they have bad manners. If more than one person is unpleasant to you, you're just unpleasant'. Its more than one person calling you unpleasant, i believe.

I've made plenty of contribution my dear, I've even made your contributions for you. that you choose to ignore it and stick your head in the sand is testament only to your (in)ability to actually challenge my responses.

I haven't made an impolite allegation, I've made an outright rude observation. You seem to want us to believe the school gave you no other choice whatsoever. I find it too incredulous to believe, that the same school that would go out of their way to accommodate a small number of Muslim students, would not extent any flexibility at all to a non-muslim parent. I find it too incredulous to believe, that they would actively forbid you to feed your own children as you saw fit. I find it too ridiculous to think all this would occur with nary a mention in the press, when a simple handshake issue makes the international news.

I am a firm believer in Occams razor - and in this case the razor cuts only one way: You wont take responsibility for feeding your children as you wish them to be fed, but you see no issue in complaining about those that do try and feed your children. The schools primary function is not to pick up after lackadaisical parents, it is to educate. They do not need to provide food that meets the wishes of the parents; they need to provide a reasonable standard of food to keep the kids going over the day. The school does that. No one forces your child to go to that school - you may transfer them to a school who's dietary policy you agree with. But you wont. You will continue complaining, but not actually stick to your own principles and take your children out of what you claim is a damaging environment, or even provide them the food you agree with. You will actually leave your children in an environment you consider damaging. That is the sort of parenting hypocrisy that is far more damaging to society than a couple of teenagers making an arse of themselves.

Civil liberties? Im sorry, did i miss something? Are your kids forced to sit on a 'non-muslims only' bus? Are they forced to pray to mecca? Are they require to proclaim their faith each morning? This is not an issue of civil liberties at all. You cheapen and mock all those who sacrificed so that we could have civil liberties, when you compare your petulant tantrum to the lives that were given in the name of civil liberties.

The positive reputation i have received on this thread, that far outweighs the negative reputation you proffered, suggests that my contribution is perhaps a smidgen more substantial then you tell yourself.

You shall post links, and i shall post responses showing those links to be utter twaddle. Carry on.
'twaddle' features prominently in your vocabulary. It must be what your friends have been calling all the bullcrap that has been coming out of your mouth the whole of your life so far. Does your arse not get jealous of your mouth??
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Old 12.04.2016, 15:58
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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If she's been wearing it for nine years it must have been rather smelly. Maybe that's why the police stopped her?

I knew someone would pick up on that! I was translating quickly over from the French, and I hesitated. That is such an English thing to do, lol.
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Old 12.04.2016, 15:58
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Thanks, will read the links.

Anything from CH, too? (I'm interested as I don't think UK and CH can quite be compared)
Not as far as i am aware. Tell MAMA is relatively recent in the UK. I dont think there are anywhere near as many physical or verbal attacks here, but then again, im not sure the victims religion is taken into account, its just treated as an assault. perhaps somebody else can say further. .
  #493  
Old 12.04.2016, 16:01
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Right. So, you think that the kids should have to change schools if they don't want to shake a female teacher's hand?
If, after everything was explained, they still didnt want to, and if they were that serious about it, alternative arrangements should be explored. The school should not be expected to bend over backwards for every odd request it gets. In this particular case, i think an explanation to the kids would have been sufficient - it doesn't read as though they were hardline anarchists.

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'twaddle' features prominently in your vocabulary. It must be what your friends have been calling all the bullcrap that has been coming out of your mouth the whole of your life so far. Does your arse not get jealous of your mouth??
It's a word that adequately describes much of what i read from people like Britething and Philosoraptor


...oops!
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Old 12.04.2016, 16:03
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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...oops!
Pathetic attempt at a burn. You mad, bro?
  #495  
Old 12.04.2016, 16:03
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Pathetic attempt at a burn. You mad, bro?
No, im a grown up.


Thats why i dont call people 'bro'.
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Old 12.04.2016, 16:05
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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The majority didn't do the adapting, the school did. Take your tantrum to the school, dont blame the kids.

Attacks on Jews gets reported in mainstream media because everyone is horrified about it. Attacks on Muslims barely gets a mention in the funny pages at the back.
You Argue, I have tantrums. nice and polite. The school "adapted" because it was the PC thing to do.

Attacks on Jews rarely get reported - Muslims attack jews daily in france, it's also much more likely for a Jew to be attacked than for a Muslim.
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Old 12.04.2016, 16:06
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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No, im a grown up.


Thats why i dont call people 'bro'.
People who have to call themselves 'grown up' probably aren't
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Old 12.04.2016, 16:08
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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People who have to call themselves 'grown up' probably aren't
People who say 'you mad, bro' definitely aren't.
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Old 12.04.2016, 16:09
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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If, after everything was explained, they still didnt want to, and if they were that serious about it, alternative arrangements should be explored. The school should not be expected to bend over backwards for every odd request it gets. In this particular case, i think an explanation to the kids would have been sufficient - it doesn't read as though they were hardline anarchists.
So are they shaking hands with the female teacher now? I didn't read that bit.
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Old 12.04.2016, 16:09
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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You Argue, I have tantrums. nice and polite. The school "adapted" because it was the PC thing to do.

Attacks on Jews rarely get reported - Muslims attack jews daily in france, it's also much more likely for a Jew to be attacked than for a Muslim.
Do you have anything to back that up? As in, an actual day-by-day account?
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