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Old 05.04.2016, 14:04
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Yes, they can, and many do.

While smoking.

Tom
Water and Coke, sure!

  #122  
Old 05.04.2016, 14:13
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

Moreover, my custom or not, I would come forward to extent that I would have embraced norms acceptable in other cultures, to make my host happy and respected and to align oneself with their set of customs/traditions.

Analogy, how would you act entering the pub full of people knowing each other and you make the first move to introduce yourself?
  #123  
Old 05.04.2016, 14:14
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Yes, they can, and many do.

While smoking.

Tom
they DID a very long time ago as they didn't know. My mum stopped smoking and drinking when she had my brother in 1936, my other brother in 48 and me in 51 - on clear medical advice. Any woman who does now, with all the evidence of possible effects on the foetus/child needs their brain examined - and should be prosecuted- really not funny really. End of..

Last edited by Odile; 05.04.2016 at 14:40.
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  #124  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:02
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Prego women can't drink either.
Is that a law or did you make that up?

That's like saying fat people shouldn't eat donuts.
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  #125  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:05
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

Top story on the BBC news website now. I particularly liked this quote:

"However the smaller Islamic Central Council of Switzerland said that a handshake between men and women was prohibited. "After the sex attacks in Cologne (on New Year's Eve), they asked Muslims to keep their distance from women; now they demand they get closer to them," spokesman Qaasim Illi told Swiss media."

What's a poor Muslim to do?!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35967349
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  #126  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:11
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Is that a law or did you make that up?

That's like saying fat people shouldn't eat donuts.
Why you picking on fat people like me all the time?
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  #127  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:14
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Is that a law or did you make that up?

That's like saying fat people shouldn't eat donuts.
If you want to take that risk with your baby, go ahead. Many doctors would advise against it though. It has nothing to do with fat people and doughnuts - possibly putting yourself at risk (with the latter) is far from putting someone else at risk (with the former). Of course there might be some docs who are ok with drinking during pregnancy, but I'd say they're far from the majority.

FMH document

Anyway, the thread topic is muslim pupils shaking hands with female teachers, so I suggest we move from drinking (alcohol or not) back to that.
  #128  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:17
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Why you picking on fat people like me all the time?
Because Glowjupiter thinks it's okay to throw her opinion around with regards to what pregnant women should, or should not drink but I bet she wouldn't dream of telling a fat person to lay off the donuts.

There's no evidence that one or two drinks a week will do any harm to an unborn child.

There's evidence that being very fat whilst pregnant can lead to very serious complications such as preeclampsia.

Anyway - back to hand shaking.
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  #129  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:20
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

If they can't shake hands with the opposite sex, what do they do if they go to a Swiss funeral?

Tom

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  #130  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:25
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

Life is getting more and more interesting!

I just imagine meeting up at the local Holzgant (or any social gathering in villages) where everyone walks around the circle of people gathered there, shaking hands in greetings.......... Swiss person shake hands, Swiss again shake hand, Ohoh Muslim no shake hand, move on to next ... another Muslim ignore ...... ok another Swiss shake hands.

Now how are these people suppose to accept and act normal with everyone else if we all got to watch out who we stretch our hand out to?

And those watching the ignored ones or those who refuse to shake hands - how they going to even have a conversation with someone so effing WEIRD?

To me, if I extend my hand to shake and the other person moves back and refuses, I`d be inclined to say a simple "Well f**k you too".

I had to learn all these Swiss etiquette things when I moved here .... always shake hands, don`t sit at a separate table in local pub - you gotta join the others (if you want to be accepted), when you leave you shake hands all round. You say "Grüetzi" to people you pass in village. Etc etc.

When my Swiss stepsons arrive at house they come and shake hands before going to speak to their Dad. When one girlfriend (German girl) did not do the handshake thing, his Dad told him to tell her "That is how it is in Switzerland".
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  #131  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:25
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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As my daughter's Kindergarten teacher explains it, the handshake is an essential lesson on and expression of mutual respect. The teacher is acknowledging the student as a person worthy of their time and their duty to the child, the child is acknowledging their accountability and honouring their teacher. This lesson appears to dovetail into swiss ways of interrelating with mutual respect in business and personal relationships through adulthood.
If only Muslims could think of some way of conveying the same respect and acknowledgement without touching. Oh, look. They already have.

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  #132  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:27
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

Oh I like that! Except the Muslim would have to first do that so other knows not to hold out hand
  #133  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:29
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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If only Muslims could think of some way of conveying the same respect and acknowledgement without touching. Oh, look. They already have.

Is that just for men or can women do it too?
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  #134  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:31
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

Donald Trump doesn't like it:

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  #135  
Old 05.04.2016, 15:41
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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If only Muslims could think of some way of conveying the same respect and acknowledgement without touching. Oh, look. They already have.

Fascinating! What is this gesture called and is it allowed from men to women? If so, you should contact the Therwil School district with that because the best they could come up with is that the students' would not have to shake any (male or female) of their teachers hands - which of course solves nothing at all.
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Old 05.04.2016, 15:50
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

I read about the story here http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35967349, and I believe someone else has linked to it as well. I'm not really sure whose side I'm on, although I probably lean towards the view that suspending handshakes is unreasonable.

The article mentioned that the Swiss Federation of Islamic Organisations has said there is no requirement in the Koran that a man and a woman cannot shake hands, which in my view suggests that the individual Muslim pupils are being personally unreasonable.

Having said that, it is still a very widespread custom in the Muslim world that members of the opposite sex from different families should not touch each other. I think the local teachers' union and some on this thread are missing the point when they say the refusal to shake hands discriminates against women. Many Muslims believe that unrelated members of the opposite sex should not come into physical contact out of respect for personal boundaries. Whether or not you agree with that point of view, it has nothing to do with the female teacher deserving less respect than a male teacher. To argue as such is to judge a different culture's customs through the lens of our own interpretation of what a handshake means.

Having said that, while it remains important to keep in mind Islamic culture when we talk about the social significance of the boys' refusal to shake hands, that doesn't really address the practical issue within the school. While the tradition of shaking a teacher's hand may or may not be replicated in other schools, in Switzerland it is customary that all men and women are willing to shake each other's hands. I believe that those living in a particular culture should respect the customs of that culture as a default.
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  #137  
Old 05.04.2016, 16:21
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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If only Muslims could think of some way of conveying the same respect and acknowledgement without touching. Oh, look. They already have.

Saying the US pledge of allegiance?

Tom
  #138  
Old 05.04.2016, 16:24
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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...
"However the smaller Islamic Central Council of Switzerland said that a handshake between men and women was prohibited. "After the sex attacks in Cologne (on New Year's Eve), they asked Muslims to keep their distance from women; now they demand they get closer to them," spokesman Qaasim Illi told Swiss media."

What's a poor Muslim to do?
Learn the meaning of the word "appropriate".

As an Englishman, I hate the practice of shaking hands at every opportunity. My long lost brother I haven't seen for forty years, possibly. Everyone else? Frankly, I feel uncomfortable being on the same continent as anyone else.
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  #139  
Old 05.04.2016, 16:25
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

How does this work? Can I go up to a Muslim lady and touch her on her chest? Or do I have to touch my own chest and hope that she allows me to touch her 36C?

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Old 05.04.2016, 16:35
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Re: What is your opinion on muslim pupils exempt from shaking hands with female teach

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Somewhere between the 60s and 2012, it became the norm in our canton...assuming you went to school in Neuchatel. My kids started school in Peseux (2 separate schools because of age) and are now in Neuchatel. It is the norm in both. I'm curious if it the norm up where you are, you should check when you have time.
It's been the norm here since at least 2010 (when we moved here). My son has had to do it in all four of the schools he's attended. (the village primary school, the two secondary schools in St Blaise and Marin and now the lycée in Neuchâtel).
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