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Old 02.05.2016, 23:53
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MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

For decades, Swiss children were taken from their homes and forced to work as cheap labour. Some were sexually abused or underwent forced sterilization.

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Old 03.05.2016, 07:58
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

Two such Verdingkinder I personally know. Both of them have had little chance in life and still today, after so many years, and miserable lives, have regular psychological help.
The offered 25KCH is an absolute insult for a ruined life, a ruined family and a ruined existence. Christopher Blocher gets the same amount just for attending a board meeting for one afternoon.
One thing that does continually disturb me is that all those earlier years when I and most of us, were living a good life here, there was no indication of what was going on. Nobody knew, or had any idea, That's the terrible thing.


Thank god for whistleblowers.
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Old 03.05.2016, 08:24
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

Maybe the affected people should band together and take the Swiss government to an International court for human rights breaches, because I'm pretty sure being forcibly removed from your family, and then subjected to sexual abuse, forced labour and forced sterilization is among the most heinous of things that can be inflicted upon a person and is reminiscent of some of the worst regimes the world has seen.
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Old 03.05.2016, 09:17
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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Maybe the affected people should band together and take the Swiss government to an International court for human rights breaches, because I'm pretty sure being forcibly removed from your family, and then subjected to sexual abuse, forced labour and forced sterilization is among the most heinous of things that can be inflicted upon a person and is reminiscent of some of the worst regimes the world has seen.
What, like Sweden you mean?

IIRC there are still many people in CH who are in denial that this happened. That's the first issue that needs to be addressed.

The second is that people easily dismiss it as a historical thing that they are not responsible for, so there is little popular or political support to address this.

Finally, what is the right amount? There is no real price, but an important part that must not be forgotten is the importance of an acknowledgment that this happened and it was wrong. In a country like CH which likes to keep "what happened in the house, in the house," this is an important step.

It is a legitimisation of the claims of wrongdoing for the victims and will help in addressing points 1 and 2.
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Old 03.05.2016, 10:14
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

I`m wondering - what about what other countries have done in their pasts, and have they ever attempted to right their wrongs?

England with their "poor" houses for one where the children were "rented" out as slaves and sexually abused. Where families were broken up, women in one "house", men in another, children in another. Huh?

Broken families from the Apartheid era in South Africa?

North American Indians....... and their poisoned blankets and broken promises?
Paid in alcohol to destroy their children.

Very easy for foreigners here to try judging what happened in Switzerlands poor times. These people were VERY poor, they could not afford to feed their children. The children (usually the eldest) were "rented" out so that they could survive. So some were badly treated, others not.

There was no "social aid" as there is today. There was no old age pensions. People were eating dogs and cats, everyone who could, had a pig in their backyard to slaughter for winter food, Flower gardens did not exist - gardens were for vegetables.

There was no obligatory pension age - people worked at hard manual labour until too old to work.

All the women worked in the fields. Hence the 11am church bells to this day - the signal for the women to leave the fields to go prepare food. The 11,45 bells were signal for the men and other children to go eat.
7pm bells on Saturday signaled the end of the working week.

I also have known some of those Verdingkinder folk - some had real shitty lives, and some had ok lives. Trying to judge why it all happened is always SO easy for the affluent of today.
To say that some deny it happened. Perhaps you are not understanding why it was done. It did happen. It did not happen as it was thought it would happen - because there are always adults out there who will abuse others children.

Be careful how one judges.
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Old 03.05.2016, 10:23
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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There was no "social aid" as there is today. There was no old age pensions. People were eating dogs and cats, everyone who could, had a pig in their backyard to slaughter for winter food, Flower gardens did not exist - gardens were for vegetables.
What, all the way up to the 1980's?
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Old 03.05.2016, 10:33
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

It was a funny week
Parliament slashed the one time payout for Verdingkinder from 500 Millions down to 300 Milllions.
http://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/sondersess...inder-ld.15861

In other news the national council is in favour of a huge tax gift to the farmers. Farmland (value a few CHF/m^2) which is zoned and sold as a construction and building land (value a up a thousand of CHF/m^2 ) should not be taxed. Tax loss of up to 400 Millions per year!
http://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/landwirtsc...nland-ld.16610
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Old 03.05.2016, 10:38
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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What, all the way up to the 1980's?
1981, to be precise.

Calling 1981 the 1980s is typical TheLocal exaggeration.

Tom
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Old 03.05.2016, 14:55
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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Two such Verdingkinder I personally know. Both of them have had little chance in life and still today, after so many years, and miserable lives, have regular psychological help.
The offered 25KCH is an absolute insult for a ruined life, a ruined family and a ruined existence. Christopher Blocher gets the same amount just for attending a board meeting for one afternoon.
One thing that does continually disturb me is that all those earlier years when I and most of us, were living a good life here, there was no indication of what was going on. Nobody knew, or had any idea, That's the terrible thing.


Thank god for whistleblowers.

1) The money does not come from the pockets of the politicians which set the rules back then or indeed the many "foster parents" who financially benefit from what is essentially slave labour. It comes from the tax payers who are all too young to be remotely responsible for what happened. How much do you think would be fair? I think no money will ever be able to make up for this sort of crap - the 25k are not even an attempt to do so: They are a symbol to show that the Swiss federation understands it did something wrong and that's all...


2) Really... nobody knew, eh? Swiss villages were even closer communities back than than as they are today. Just as half the village knows today whose car was parked where at what time... they for sure recognized the poorly fed and dressed kids working their asses off on certain farms. Sorry, I don't buy it. People might not have known all the details, but they definitely knew something was going on and decided to look the other way and not care.
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Old 04.05.2016, 09:55
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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1) The money does not come from the pockets of the politicians which set the rules back then or indeed the many "foster parents" who financially benefit from what is essentially slave labour. It comes from the tax payers who are all too young to be remotely responsible for what happened. How much do you think would be fair? I think no money will ever be able to make up for this sort of crap - the 25k are not even an attempt to do so: They are a symbol to show that the Swiss federation understands it did something wrong and that's all...

2) Really... nobody knew, eh? Swiss villages were even closer communities back than than as they are today. Just as half the village knows today whose car was parked where at what time... they for sure recognized the poorly fed and dressed kids working their asses off on certain farms. Sorry, I don't buy it. People might not have known all the details, but they definitely knew something was going on and decided to look the other way and not care.
I was wondering if I should simply post links to other threads, or ignore the post altogether, or reply something similar
to what you wrote, most notably your 2)
Thanks for doing that for me

Verdingkinder, Kostkinder, Güterkinder, Schwabengänger, Schwabenkinder und Kaminfegerkinder. How can a language have multiple words for essentially the same thing when it was largely unknown to the population? A direct contradiction to Busby's assertion.

This stuff went on for far more than a century, there was official legislation. In some cases the children were literally sold on markets (those bidder who required the least Kostgeld [payment by the parents] got them), in otheres the children had to be assigned by the authorities as there were not enough voluntary 'takers'. Estimates say, for instance, that perhaps up to 10% of the families were affected (either by being victim or by being children assigned to).

No indication, unknown to the public??? Think again!

And I'd be surprised it that happened in CH only. Very very much surprised. Child labour anyone?
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Old 04.05.2016, 10:04
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

I think in this shape and form - being controlled and legislated by the state - it is indeed a Swiss thing. The other Switzerland specific thing is that it took so long to correct it: Most European countries had some terrible stuff going on up and till the 1960s. But I guess Switzerland was not just the slowest when it came to female voting rights.
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Old 04.05.2016, 12:49
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

Look up forced adoption. Still (again?) practiced in the UK today with what seem to be about a thousand cases a year.
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Old 04.05.2016, 13:00
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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Look up forced adoption. Still (again?) practiced in the UK today with what seem to be about a thousand cases a year.
Or Barnevernet in Norway...
And surprise surprise, it's almost always the immigrants' kids that are taken away from parents and given to adoptive families who receive generous welfare benefits...you wouldn't think fascism is well and alive, but it is.
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Old 04.05.2016, 13:07
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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Look up forced adoption. Still (again?) practiced in the UK today with what seem to be about a thousand cases a year.
"with what seem to be about a thousand cases a year." Other reports claim a thousand per month Source

Happened in many places, Australia forced adoption of babies from unmarried mothers until the 1980's.

And some older stories from the UK here.
and here.
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:13
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

Um, well, there is a difference between forced adoption and the Swiss slave kids:

1. I know this is a cultural difference, but in short: In some societies are the kids perceived as pretty much the property of the parents. In the US can the parents decide weather or not they vaccinate their kids, send them to school or teach at home or what not else. The general opinion is "parents know best" and that the state should stay out of family matters. In many European countries is this very different: Kids have by now established rights and the state sees itself to be the one to assure that they protect anyone's rights including children. If the state for example witnesses physical abuse is it its duty to take action - completely regardless weather the parents think that beating their kids is ok. I guess that I am very European, but I think that within tightly controlled laws and guidelines are forced adoptions not just a good thing, but absolutely necessary. My mom was a teacher for teenage girls from poor backgrounds and she has witnessed more than one case where the mom was absolutely not in a situation to care for her child. "her problem if she becomes a teen mom" is one attitude to it "let's save the child" another...


2. A forced adoption does not mean that the foster parents can abuse the kids in any way. That's the issue with the Swiss story: It was a system! Farmers needed cheap labour and the local authorities made sure they got what they needed by taking the kids away from anyone who did not resemble the perfect family. I do not think that's what is happening today in the UK or even Norway. The Norwegians are famous for taking the idea of children rights to the extreme... but they definitely do the opposite of turning kids into slave labour.
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:35
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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The Norwegians are famous for taking the idea of children rights to the extreme... but they definitely do the opposite of turning kids into slave labour.
Yep, Breivik is one of those cases that enjoyed the wonderful Norwegian child protection system.
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:43
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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Yep, Breivik is one of those cases that enjoyed the wonderful Norwegian child protection system.
Sure. And of course was whatever he did entirely the fault of the Norwegian society and in no way his personal responsibility... right?
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:48
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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I think that within tightly controlled laws and guidelines are forced adoptions not just a good thing, but absolutely necessary.
And I absolutely disagree.

Tom
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Old 04.05.2016, 14:56
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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And I absolutely disagree.

Tom
You are American, so this is expected. I'd also expect you to feel very emotionally about it...
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Old 04.05.2016, 15:02
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Re: MPs say yes to cash for Switzerland’s 'slave kids'

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You are American, so this is expected.
No, I WAS American, that BS ceased 19 years ago.

Tom
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