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  #201  
Old 10.06.2016, 23:03
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Re: Breast-feeding

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I couldn't exclusively breastfeed my LO, I wish I could. I had a complicated pregnancy, and the LO arrived 6 weeks early than the due date. He had to stay in NICU, and had to learn to drink during his stay there.
As a preemie, he really struggled to latch, and always ended up falling asleep. Every breastfeeding was a very stressful moment for both of us. And I was at the time still trying to recuperate from a 2.5-month bed rest in hospital and was very sleep-deprived in the first months of the LO's arrival. So I always had to top up my milk with formula, especially because he needed to gain weight. And guess what, every time I tried to bottle feed him in public, I more than often got frowned upon. Mostly by other women or mums.
So, in the end, it doesn't really matter, whether we breastfeed or bottle-feed our babies. We still got the same horror looks. It's a shame, really!
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  #202  
Old 10.06.2016, 23:10
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Re: Breast-feeding

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How about, you both wake up - your wife does the breast feeding in bed and then you get up and change the inevitable dirty nappy?

You really can do your share.
That's how we did it, me being a chronic ligh sleeper who takes ages to fall asleep and him being quite the opposite. I nursed, he changed the diapers; on quite a few occasions he couldn't remember doing so the following morning.

He also gave all the baths the first year (I think the Troll was 2,5 when I washed his hair the first time), had him for himself a few hours ever week (and still does) and took 6 months of unpaid leave when we had to wait for a place in daycare and I had to start a new job.

All in all, this more than compensated the impossibility of feeding Junior regularly. And guess what? The Troll is just as close to his dad as he is to his mother, and his dad is just as capable of managing him as as I am (except the socks don't always match the outfit).
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  #203  
Old 10.06.2016, 23:28
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Re: Breast-feeding

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That was the most condescending statement Ive read on EF in a long time....



The vast majority of men, appropriately, know when to shut up.
Why didn't you quote the whole sentence then, foxymoron? Could it be that it didn't match to the condescension that you wish to feel?
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  #204  
Old 10.06.2016, 23:51
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Re: Breast-feeding

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and is FREE, I really can't see why I shouldn't give it a try.
You should definitely breastfeed. Because you want to. But it's not free.

https://groundedparents.com/2015/09/...-saying-it-is/
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  #205  
Old 11.06.2016, 00:30
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Re: Breast-feeding

Totally free - absolutely. No cushion required, pads made out a cut-out muslin square and washed was about the total cost.

Tin of SMA, £10.

And this is so meh , and the cost incredible:

https://youtu.be/ihSpv6WGWfc

Who on earth has said that mothers who do not wish to breastfeed should?
This thread is about mothers should be able to feed when out without sitting in toilets, or hiding away and feeling ashamed and embarrassed- as I had to in the 70s. I am so glad for them.

Governernment interference? Here in Switzerland?

Until 2011, babies in hospital in UK were given formula without the mother's or parents' permission- and all mothers were visited by Formula employees and given free samples. I had an emergency C section in 73, and when I woke up (epidural for C-section but GA for stitching for some reason) - the nurse said not to worry about the baby- they had given her a bottle and would give her one later again. No-one asked if that was OK. When I said I wanted to BF, they said I shouldn't bother- and it would be very painful due to the scar and the muscle tightening when BF (it was, but I didn't mind). They gave me no help at all. I discharged myself on day 3 so i could go home and BF in peace- thank goodness a neighbour was a pro BF health visitor who was on maternity leave- as OH worked very long hours and I had no family.

Since 2011, in NHS hospitals, SMA and other companies are no longer allowed access to mothers, and are not allowed to give free samples, and the NHS is no longer providing free formula. Progress I'd personally say. But no-one is forcing anyone to BF at all.
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  #206  
Old 11.06.2016, 08:24
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Re: Breast-feeding

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Who on earth has said that mothers who do not wish to breastfeed should?
This thread is about mothers should be able to feed when out without sitting in toilets, or hiding away and feeling ashamed and embarrassed- as I had to in the 70s. I am so glad for them.
.
But if you noticed some reactions, things haven't changed that much, though. Apart from many mums being bolder, more confident than back then and their partners being more aware of the situation and more supportive or involved than before.
I think that's the key to the whole issue: if you look for other's approval for whatever you have to do for your child you might as well start planning your retirement.
So: breastfeed in public, or bottle feed in public...whatever you have to do for your child's happy belly. That stranger that's giving you a dirty look means NOTHING.

Last edited by greenmount; 11.06.2016 at 09:27.
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  #207  
Old 11.06.2016, 10:08
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Re: Breast-feeding

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Totally free - absolutely. No cushion required, pads made out a cut-out muslin square and washed was about the total cost.

Tin of SMA, £10.

And this is so meh , and the cost incredible:

https://youtu.be/ihSpv6WGWfc

Who on earth has said that mothers who do not wish to breastfeed should?
This thread is about mothers should be able to feed when out without sitting in toilets, or hiding away and feeling ashamed and embarrassed- as I had to in the 70s. I am so glad for them.

Governernment interference? Here in Switzerland?

Until 2011, babies in hospital in UK were given formula without the mother's or parents' permission- and all mothers were visited by Formula employees and given free samples. I had an emergency C section in 73, and when I woke up (epidural for C-section but GA for stitching for some reason) - the nurse said not to worry about the baby- they had given her a bottle and would give her one later again. No-one asked if that was OK. When I said I wanted to BF, they said I shouldn't bother- and it would be very painful due to the scar and the muscle tightening when BF (it was, but I didn't mind). They gave me no help at all. I discharged myself on day 3 so i could go home and BF in peace- thank goodness a neighbour was a pro BF health visitor who was on maternity leave- as OH worked very long hours and I had no family.

Since 2011, in NHS hospitals, SMA and other companies are no longer allowed access to mothers, and are not allowed to give free samples, and the NHS is no longer providing free formula. Progress I'd personally say. But no-one is forcing anyone to BF at all.
Awful story. When I had miniwoo in 2008 I was the only BFing mother on my ward, my milk wasn't comming in and miniwoo was starting to get yellow. They gave Me a pump but They still had to supplement with formula (with syringe, not bottle, and made her suck the milk not plunge it in) but they did ask my permission first. As soon as my milk came in (13 hours of feeding!) the formula disappeared.
The other mums just rang a bell and bottles of pre-prepared formula arrived. The nurses did not judge, and were patient with me, to be fair I was getting blood transfussions so they had to hang around anyway.
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  #208  
Old 11.06.2016, 10:38
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Re: Breast-feeding

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You should definitely breastfeed. Because you want to. But it's not free.

https://groundedparents.com/2015/09/...-saying-it-is/
No it's not 100% free. Some things are not essential ( like a cushion, or a good breastfeeding bra) but they do make it a lot easier, other things ( like breast pads) are a must IMO and cost money.
Taking all that into account the costs are still significantly less than the costs associated with bottle feeding.

Whether to breastfeed or not should be a decision made by the mother and not influenced by formula companies or other family members or nurses in the hospital. Not every mother can feed the baby herself and not every mother wants to.
No mother should be judged on how they choose to feed their baby whether that be breast or bottle and breastfeeding mums should be allowed to do so freely without having to hide away in a loo somewhere.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 11.06.2016 at 23:09.
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  #209  
Old 11.06.2016, 11:24
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Re: Breast-feeding

Absolutely- choice is paramount, and no judging either. But it can be very difficult for hospital staff and health visitors/midwife- to encourage a mother who wants to breast feed or is worried or hesitant about it- and knowing where the cut off point is. I've known many women who didn't perservere and regretted it very much later, and wished they had been given more support and encouragement.

When staff just hand you bottles of formula when baby is finding it difficult to latch on, on when you have the 3 day blues and burst into tears- it doesn't help.

BM, great post- but as I said, breast pads cost very little- and in my case, made with one of the muslin squares given to me by a neighbour- cut rounds of the right size, put 4 together and stitched all round- cost O. You have to have good bras anyhow but they don't need to be nursing bras really. I did have one bottle for water later on- and I'm embarrassed to say, diluted Ribena as was the norm then (terrible for teeth when given by bottle- then goodness both mine have excellent teeth) - but both went straight to a cup and weaned without noticing around 9 months- just morning and evening feed that slowly stopped quite naturally.

The point of this thread though is that mums should be able to BF when out without hiding in toilets or behind a blanket. Totally agree too that discretion is a good idea too btw.

Even in the UK, there is a section of the population where BF is rare, and where hygiene and proper sterilising facilities are not available or not ideal- and where feeds are often cut to save money, with dire consequences. One of my students had several babies taken from her as they were so underfed and kept getting sick. This is not just about 1/3 world countries.

Last edited by Odile; 11.06.2016 at 11:41.
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  #210  
Old 11.06.2016, 12:03
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Re: Breast-feeding

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No it's not 100% free. Some things are not essential ( like a cushion, or a good breastfeeding bra) but they do make it a lot easier, other things ( like breast pads) are a must IMO and cost money.
Taking all that into account the costs are still significantly less than the costs associated with bottle feeding.

Whether to breastfeed or not should be a decision made by the mother and not influenced by formula companies or other family members or nurses in the hospital. Not every mother can feed the baby herself.
No mother should be judged on how they choose to feed their baby whether thstand breastfeeding mums should be allowed to do so freely without having to hide away in a loo somewhere.
Apparently, the main cost is the economic cost, valuing the mother's time. That's why certain women are so indignant when breastfeeding described as free. It implies that 6 months of their lives is worth nothing. In the West at least, by comparison, formula is an incidental cost.

Of course among the African poor, all this is turned on its head.
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  #211  
Old 11.06.2016, 12:18
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Re: Breast-feeding

How very sad- I'd say 6 months of being a full time mother is wonderful- and can be afforded by most in the 'West'. Daughter had 6 months with first and 1 year with second when in middle management and was made partner of her Firm 1 year after return. If someone's career is ruined by a few months off- perhaps there was not much chance of a 'career' anyway.

Last post on the subject- as the discussion has totally been highjacked from OP.
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Old 11.06.2016, 12:41
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Re: Breast-feeding

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How very sad- I'd say 6 months of being a full time mother is wonderful- and can be afforded by most in the 'West'. Daughter had 6 months with first and 1 year with second when in middle management and was made partner of her Firm 1 year after return. If someone's career is ruined by a few months off- perhaps there was not much chance of a 'career' anyway.

Last post on the subject- as the discussion has totally been highjacked from OP.
Sorry, but I can't think of any serious job where you can take many months off and not miss out.
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  #213  
Old 11.06.2016, 16:26
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Re: Breast-feeding

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...The fact is, mums who choose to breastfeed with the breast out all visible, do enjoy this act of provocation, there's some pleasure to it , except that most people would feel unconfortable for some genuine reasons (natural as breastfeeding uh) and as I said, cultural, and will only sexually arouse some weirdos,pervs...
I'm sure you and I have different definition about what a fact is. Or you just live in a totally different world...




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What is really frustrating , is the fact that all of this started with some serious junk science , when they started coming out with these studies how "breastfed babies are having higher IQ!!" (can you imagine this!??) , then "how they are healthier" !!
, then "less allergies" ! then "antibodieees oh the baby is protected!!" ...
Well you just throw stupid mommies war argument into the plate. Of course, there are some moms who believe such things like breastfed babies are having higher IQ and so on, although it's not scientifically proven. However, the other part of the stories is also scientifically justified.

For example, about having immunity against ear infection if the babies are exclusively breastfed for the first 6 months. I can tell you from my experience, my little one had suffered from an ear infection as he's not exclusively breastfed. Plus, because he's bottle-fed, it's difficult when he got sick or showing signs of what could possibly lead to ear infection (e.g. cold, runny nose, cough). As when he's catching a cold (partly due to all the virus in the daycare), the formula increases the mucous (which eventually can lead to cough/congestion). All these contribute to ear infection. And bottle feeding position may also increase the likelihood of ear infection. But he'd be very dehydrated if he didn't get the formula during this time, especially many babies at that age usually don't like to drink anything but milk. So, in the end it's like a vicious circle, which can easily be avoided if he's breastfed. I'm not saying babies who are breastfed are entirely protected from ear infection. But the chances to suffer from such illness are (far) bigger for bottle-fed babies.

And don't get me started on babies with eczema. Surely, some eczema on babies (as well as adults) can easily be treated with special cream. But for many, they have to change the diet (e.g. dairy-free, gluten-free) in order to get rid the illness. It's then difficult for babies who rely on formula to get to dairy-free diet. Surely, there are nowadays alternatives, like soy-based formula, or almond milk. But some babies could react against soy and nuts. Again, this can be sorted out easily if the babies are breast-fed.
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  #214  
Old 11.06.2016, 16:44
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Re: Breast-feeding

Grr - won't quote:


Re NHS and formula - the hospital I gave birth in certainly did provide formula for brand new mums who didn't want to/couldn't breastfeed. They absolutely DID push their breast is best agenda. As did the first Nazi Midwife who got in through our front door the day after we took LR home. If I ever see that miserable excuse for a human being again I'll be poking her in the eye. We complained. In writing. Twice.


Re careers taking a hit - yes they do. I hate to say it, because they absolutely should not, but they do.
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  #215  
Old 11.06.2016, 17:04
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Re: Breast-feeding

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How very sad- I'd say 6 months of being a full time mother is wonderful- and can be afforded by most in the 'West'. Daughter had 6 months with first and 1 year with second when in middle management and was made partner of her Firm 1 year after return. If someone's career is ruined by a few months off- perhaps there was not much chance of a 'career' anyway.

Last post on the subject- as the discussion has totally been highjacked from OP.
You do realize that the 'West' is full of single mothers - most of them struggling in a badly payed job?
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  #216  
Old 11.06.2016, 21:48
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Re: Breast-feeding

Um, about the free milk thing? Two words. Protein cravings.

My body demanded more - and more expensive - food while nursing two than it did while pregnant with two - which is really saying something. And I was still losing weight. Rapidly. As in, lost all the baby weight and more within one month. And that wasn't even nursing them 100%, that was supplementing with formula. If I had eventually managed to exclusively breastfeed both, I'd have eaten us out of house and home. Fact. So don't give me this, "oh, it's free."

I heard this line being fervently talked up at the first (and only) LLL meeting I went to. That and several other standard BF talking points ("promotes bonding as nothing else can" for instance... I didn't feel closer to my babies whenever I'd breastfed them, I felt closer whenever I'd slept for more than 45 minutes straight!) were so completely divorced from my own experiences at the time that I found the whole thing unsettled me - was I crazy? was I Doing It Wrong? - far more than it supported me, and I never went back.
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