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Old 29.06.2016, 11:57
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Notice period for classes?

Hi EF,


My 6 yo daughter is having ballet classes but she wants to quit since she's not having fun there, mostly because the teacher is pushing the children too much and even telling them what to eat or not to eat. She even started to lie to the teacher for she don't get mad with her and I think the rest of the kids also do that (who's the kid that don't like to eat chips, pizza or nuggets, right?).


We informed the teacher that we won't continue when she gave us the paper for the next level classes. She wasn't happy at all with that and told us that we should inform her 3 months before because is the notice period and we only did it 2,5 months before.
Unfortunally we didn't translate the papers she gave us when we put our daughter in her ballet classes so we got caught by surprise with this notice period but I'm wondering if this is even legal, since I've been already in swimming classes and gym and just got quit only by not renewing the membership. No notice period needed. Shouldn't a ballet class follow the same rules? And I'm not quitting from the current classes. I just don't want my daughter to continue for the next level classes that starts in September.


I could even pay and don't let my daughter go to the next classes but I'm wondering what happens if I just take my daughter from the ballet classes and don't pay for the next ones.


What to do? What are your opinions on this? Maybe somebody passed the same or similar that could give me a good advice here.


Thank you.
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Old 29.06.2016, 12:03
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Re: Notice period for classes?

Your contract is the key. If the contract says 3 months, it is 3 months. The fact you didn't understand the contract is neither here, nor there, I am sorry to say.

On EF there have been 1000s of similar posts saying 'I signed a contract I didn't understand- is it valid if it was not in my language' - and the reply is always the same- yes it is. Perhaps this contract maybe the cheapest one for the 'lesson to be learnt'- Bonne chance.

If you don't pay, they might just drop it. Or they might register an official debt in your name, called Betreibung- and this causes tons of problems long-term. I would calmly discuss the possibility of cutting a deal on this- and see if they will accept part payment to cancel the contract.

BTW, same in the UK. My daughter forgot to cancel the swimming classes for the children- as they changed classes for the same reasons you mention (ie not enjoying them) and she has to be for one term for both.
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Old 29.06.2016, 12:07
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Re: Notice period for classes?

It was the same at the ballet school my daughter used to go to, and I know that people did get caught out by this and have to pay.

This will vary from activity to activity, but, for example, some of the local music schools usually only have two times during the year in which you can either apply for lessons or give notice of withdrawing.
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Old 29.06.2016, 12:16
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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mostly because the teacher is pushing the children too much ---(who's the kid that don't like to eat chips, pizza or nuggets, right?).

Unfortunally we didn't translate the papers she gave us when we put our daughter in her ballet classes ...but I'm wondering if this is even legal,

I'm wondering what happens if I just take my daughter from the ballet classes and don't pay for the next ones.
Not advice but I'd have a go at getting away with it. However, I'd forget all the above-quoted bits for a start.
Since you say " She wasn't happy at all with that and told us that we should inform her 3 months before because is the notice period" and not "she turned down the idea of accepting notice flat", I'd try saying the child doesn't wish to continue into the next group and as you let her know 2 1/2 months before, could she consider this. If she says this cuts no ice, as you signed the contract, then you pay up and learn from it.
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Old 29.06.2016, 12:22
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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Unfortunally we didn't translate the papers she gave us when we put our daughter in her ballet classes
My apologies for sounding harsh:

You did not care about the terms of the contract before - and now that you care you ask how to evade exactly those terms.

From a legal point of view, all the contract terms, combined with civil contract law are binding (in case one or more terms of the contract are invalid, this will not invalidate the contract - and, please, don't think that a term is invalid simply because it displeases you).

You have three options:
a) comply - and learn
b) find an amicable agreement - and you better be nice, because the other party to the contract will extend a LOT of goodwill into your direction
c) kick the other party in the face - and wait for the consequences (anything but a spotless debt register can give you serious problems in Switzerland - from employment to rent to other contracts).
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Old 29.06.2016, 12:27
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Re: Notice period for classes?

I would stop classes immediately as soon as I found out that the teacher feeds the kids negative body images. In your case, your child has more sense than the teacher, but then she (the child) had to resort to lying which at this age goes against the grain.

I would offer to pay the penalty. The teacher stands to lose because of word of mouth.
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Old 29.06.2016, 12:30
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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I would stop classes immediately as soon as I found out that the teacher feeds the kids negative body images.
Oddly enough, I've sometimes been very grateful when other adults expressed the same thoughts as I did on the subject of a healthy diet! Depends a lot of the way it is phrased of course.
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Old 29.06.2016, 12:36
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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I would stop classes immediately as soon as I found out that the teacher feeds the kids negative body images.
There's nothing about negative body image, just about diet - and as they are part of an athletic, competitive field, one could assume that was conscientious coaching.

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Oddly enough, I've sometimes been very grateful when other adults expressed the same thoughts as I did on the subject of a healthy diet! Depends a lot of the way it is phrased of course.
Exactly. There's nothing wrong with a coach providing guidance to her pupils, nor with pushing them to excel - that's what coaches are for.

Seems to me that OP didn't really pay attention (or failed to understand due to language) what sort of class she was signing her kid up to, and is shocked that the program is for serious training in an artistic vocation, not just for fun.
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Old 29.06.2016, 12:48
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Re: Notice period for classes?

Thank you for all answers.


Isn't really about the part of money of the 'contract' but what differs a dance or music class from a sport class? Why don't we have a notice period in sport classes and do we have in art classes?


And also if we contract a service and if isn't what we expected to be, we still need to pay and accept this without do nothing?


In this case I'm talking about kids. Something that can impact their adult life. Before coming to Switzerland my daughter was having ballet classes 2 times by week (she was 4 yo then) and very happy to go there. Now with only a class by week she's trying everything to skip the classes, saying that she's tired or sick just to do not go. I'm afraid she won't be interested in ballet again in her life or at least not in a near future.


Another mother just took her daughter too, after she also complaining that the teacher was yelling with her. The teacher really became mad and shouting why everybody now wants to leave her classes.


I think any parent will pay just to protect their children by taking them immediately from the classes.
Wish that there were more protective laws for consumers and specially for the children but I guess things won't change so easily.
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Old 29.06.2016, 12:58
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Re: Notice period for classes?

There's no rule or regulation that says a contract has to specify a notice period or not, it's entirely up to the individual business to decide whether they want to or not. Your teacher does, it's in the contract and as you signed it you should know.

That said, while ballet can be serious at 6 years old it's a bit too early to be so insistent on dietary needs. Yes, encouragement to eat properly by all means, but that's all.

Come to some arrangement with the teacher (offer to pay for the missing weeks as you've given 2.5 months notice out of 3) and then find her another class if she wants to continue learning ballet.

Btw did you send her to ballet classes or was this something she wanted to do at 4 years old?
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Old 29.06.2016, 12:58
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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I think any parent will pay just to protect their children by taking them immediately from the classes.
Wish that there were more protective laws for consumers and specially for the children but I guess things won't change so easily.


You can do that, you just would need to pay for the classes until the end of the notice period.


The law protects both sides.....!
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Old 29.06.2016, 13:01
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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Thank you for all answers.


Isn't really about the part of money of the 'contract' but what differs a dance or music class from a sport class? Why don't we have a notice period in sport classes and do we have in art classes?


And also if we contract a service and if isn't what we expected to be, we still need to pay and accept this without do nothing?


In this case I'm talking about kids. Something that can impact their adult life. Before coming to Switzerland my daughter was having ballet classes 2 times by week (she was 4 yo then) and very happy to go there. Now with only a class by week she's trying everything to skip the classes, saying that she's tired or sick just to do not go. I'm afraid she won't be interested in ballet again in her life or at least not in a near future.


Another mother just took her daughter too, after she also complaining that the teacher was yelling with her. The teacher really became mad and shouting why everybody now wants to leave her classes.


I think any parent will pay just to protect their children by taking them immediately from the classes.
Wish that there were more protective laws for consumers and specially for the children but I guess things won't change so easily.

Kids change between 4 and 6.


Ballet teachers are not unknown for being stern, nor for trying to instill good habits in their children.


Can you put your current evaluation aside and sit in on a class and listen to what the teacher actually says and does, and how the Cherubim and Seraphim actually react? Try this, then make an evaluation.


What is required here is a bit of careful observation and evaluation. Consumer law isn't really going to help, particularly if it endorses a snap value judgement which might deprive you of the photograph of your wonderful ballerina at 6, beaming with pride because she is wearing a Tutu and gets to go on stage at the fall recital.


(Guess which is my all time favourite photo of my daughter.)
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Old 29.06.2016, 13:04
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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Btw did you send her to ballet classes or was this something she wanted to do at 4 years old?
It's something that she wanted to do. We are not forcing our children to nothing so every time they want to try anything new we just support them to experiment it.
So with 4yo she went for ballet classes and loved it but then we moved to Switzerland and spent 2 years without ballet.
She even tried here in Switzerland some hip-hop dance classes but she said she prefer ballet and that's why I went to search for ballet classes. Now, I'm afraid she won't ask me again for ballet
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Old 29.06.2016, 13:12
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Re: Notice period for classes?

If it were me, I'd take her out, ask if you can reduce the notice time and, if not, pay up. I had a similar situation with my daughter when she broke her arm and couldn't go to a regular activity.

But as for notice periods, it's totally up to the provider what they decide to set. As a private music teacher my terms and conditions ask people to let me know 4 weeks before the end of term, but some of the activities my daughter does require a lot more notice than that.

It's a tough lesson, especially if you're not yet able to read German properly.
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Old 29.06.2016, 14:29
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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but what differs a dance or music class from a sport class? Why don't we have a notice period in sport classes and do we have in art classes?
The contract is what differs. Different people find different terms sensible.
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Old 29.06.2016, 15:59
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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My 6 yo daughter is having ballet classes but she wants to quit since she's not having fun there, mostly because the teacher is pushing the children too much and even telling them what to eat or not to eat. She even started to lie to the teacher for she don't get mad with her and I think the rest of the kids also do that (who's the kid that don't like to eat chips, pizza or nuggets, right?).
What exactly surprises you about that? It's quite common knowledge that ballet is a very strict sport and from early on. I used to dance myself and that was normal even back in the days. Heck at that time, we had this one girl who was unusually tall at age 9 or 10 and the parents gave her hormones to stop growing, so she could continue dancing. She never became pro of course and still grew too tall to be a dancer. Not that I agree that is a good thing to do - but it's part of the sport. Just like other things are normal in other sports.

Granted, if you (or your daughter) don't enjoy dancing or that particular dancing class, it's perfectly valid to give up on it. Maybe she would enjoy other dance classes much more that are less strict, but still fun (Jazz? Modern?)

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Unfortunally we didn't translate the papers she gave us when we put our daughter in her ballet classes
Your lack of language skills or lack of willingness to translate documents you're signing is hardly the ballet school's problem.

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if this is even legal
Of course it is. It's a private contract between two parties. They can add any notice period they like.

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And also if we contract a service and if isn't what we expected to be, we still need to pay and accept this without do nothing?
Yes. Again, your problem if you didn't understand what you were signing. Also your problem if you're not happy cause clearly they delivered what they had to deliver and your dissatisfaction with the quality of the classes is your personal viewpoint. Also your problem if you changed your mind for some reason. You're still obliged by whatever you signed for a certain period of time.

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What to do? What are your opinions on this? Maybe somebody passed the same or similar that could give me a good advice here.
Terminate, pay for 3 months, let your daughter go to classes or don't, whatever you prefer. Then you're done.

Of course you could also try to a) reason with the teacher by having an open conversation about your concerns and/or b) see if they have another teacher your daughter could go to and/or c) check whether they have other dance classes on offer (most ballet schools do) for your daughter to try out and the money you're paying could be used for that and/or d) try to find some other amicable arrangement of sort
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Old 29.06.2016, 16:19
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Re: Notice period for classes?

Appreciating that it's a contract and so on and so forth, is there anybody else mystified as to the unreasonable attitude towards consumers? The OP is talking about 2.5 months notice in lieu of 3 months. It's pretty close and I can't imagine it making any difference whatsoever to the running of the business.

Why is there such a culture here of alienating customers? I wouldn't dream of insisting upon this unless there was a clear cost to my business that resulted from those 2 weeks. In other countries I feel like you'd get a reply more like 'Hey, I'm really sorry your daughter isn't having a good time, no problem taking her out and if you think she might like to try it again some time, we'd love to have her back.'

What am I missing here?
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Old 29.06.2016, 16:32
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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Appreciating that it's a contract and so on and so forth, is there anybody else mystified as to the unreasonable attitude towards consumers? The OP is talking about 2.5 months notice in lieu of 3 months. It's pretty close and I can't imagine it making any difference whatsoever to the running of the business.

Why is there such a culture here of alienating customers? I wouldn't dream of insisting upon this unless there was a clear cost to my business that resulted from those 2 weeks. In other countries I feel like you'd get a reply more like 'Hey, I'm really sorry your daughter isn't having a good time, no problem taking her out and if you think she might like to try it again some time, we'd love to have her back.'

What am I missing here?

What you are missing is that we aren't in another country, we are here.
You are also missing that the OP signed a contract.


Most importantly, the concern about what getting out of the (legally valid) contract will cost should be the OP's LAST concern if the situation is as dire as she seems to think it is.
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Old 29.06.2016, 16:36
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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Appreciating that it's a contract and so on and so forth, is there anybody else mystified as to the unreasonable attitude towards consumers? The OP is talking about 2.5 months notice in lieu of 3 months. It's pretty close and I can't imagine it making any difference whatsoever to the running of the business.

Why is there such a culture here of alienating customers? I wouldn't dream of insisting upon this unless there was a clear cost to my business that resulted from those 2 weeks. In other countries I feel like you'd get a reply more like 'Hey, I'm really sorry your daughter isn't having a good time, no problem taking her out and if you think she might like to try it again some time, we'd love to have her back.'

What am I missing here?

Usually very much depends on the attitude and approach one chooses. If someone waltzes in like hell on wheels, insinuating others are not doing what they're supposed to be doing, and demanding xyz, it just doesn't fare well here. The "I'm the customer and therefore always right even if I couldn't be more wrong but if you don't do as I tell you I will at best ask for your manager and at worst sue you"-approach doesn't work here. The more aggressive people get, the less they will achieve. People respond to reason or meet you halfway if you approach it nicely. In most cases anyway.

That is NOT to say OP was aggressive in any way. I don't know of course. I wasn't there. I'm speaking in general terms.

You are also missing that OP signed a contract and contracts are not just a random piece of paper, but binding documents. Simple. Why would the school waiver OP's obligations? They already know the daughter won't be coming back to classes, so why bother?
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Old 29.06.2016, 16:38
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Re: Notice period for classes?

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What you are missing is that we aren't in another country, we are here.
You are also missing that the OP signed a contract.


Most importantly, the concern about what getting out of the (legally valid) contract will cost should be the OP's LAST concern if the situation is as dire as she seems to think it is.
Umm, My first words were about the contract. But anyway.....

You might just as well say as the OP is HERE and not somewhere else, how her/his daughter is treated should be accepted as it is how it is done HERE. Clearly it isn't dire, it is how it is done HERE. And we are HERE.
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