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  #181  
Old 16.09.2016, 12:27
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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Seriously, there are bigger problems in the world than two gay guys at Nelson being told to stop for going at it too hard.

PM date and time.
Include me in the PM. Someone has to keep an eye on you two, and I haven't been out in a while.
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  #182  
Old 16.09.2016, 12:29
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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Include me in the PM. Someone has to keep an eye on you two, and I haven't been out in a while.
I promise we won't grope each other.
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  #183  
Old 16.09.2016, 12:30
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

Somebody smart once said, "A journey of 1000 miles begins with 1 step".

It's incredibly true of most things and especially combating bigotry. Ignoring it isn't going to get us closer to the end goal of eradicating it.

We can all do our little bit to ensure people get treated as we would wish to be treated ourselves.
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  #184  
Old 16.09.2016, 12:31
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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I promise we won't grope each other.
No deal then.
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  #185  
Old 16.09.2016, 12:34
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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I promise we won't grope each other.
I would be pleased if you didn't.

I would also be pleased if neither of you set fire to my shirt with a lighter, which is what happened the last time I was there. The boucers threw the arsonist out, but they also wanted to throw me out, until the wait staff told them I had just been standing at the bar ordering a beer.
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  #186  
Old 16.09.2016, 12:36
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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Somebody smart once said, "A journey of 1000 miles begins with 1 step".

It's incredibly true of most things and especially combating bigotry. Ignoring it isn't going to get us closer to the end goal of eradicating it.

We can all do our little bit to ensure people get treated as we would wish to be treated ourselves.
I understand that. But you're not going to get there through some social movement that tries to coerce people into some pattern of behaviour. Religion has tried that for millennia. Fascists and commies have tried, and it still there. Because you're trying to replace it with tyranny. Anyway, something for later.
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  #187  
Old 16.09.2016, 12:45
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

I like slaphead's cognitive dissonance:

We must believe him when he says the staff is anti-gay or anything but we need to disbelief the group of 6.
Not noting that
A) they could be perfectly non bias people and still make a discriminatory action
B)they have a vested interested in the pub not suffering, hence why say that nothing wrong went on. Same position as the one he criticizes the group if not worst.
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  #188  
Old 16.09.2016, 12:47
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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I understand that. But you're not going to get there through some social movement that tries to coerce people into some pattern of behaviour. Religion has tried that for millennia. Fascists and commies have tried, and it still there. Because you're trying to replace it with tyranny. Anyway, something for later.
Dunno, it worked for slavery, for example. Over time it became less and less socially acceptable to have people working for nothing with no rights and no pay.

Works the other way, too, obviously, but society's behaviour is fluid and open to changing attitudes.

Switzerland seems to have a higher acceptance of, in this case, homophobia than other parts of the world, therefore, some influence has changed the behaviour pattern here but not elsewhere.
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  #189  
Old 16.09.2016, 12:48
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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No deal then.
Damn. You might have said that before I got the day release approved!
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  #190  
Old 16.09.2016, 12:55
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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Dunno, it worked for slavery, for example. Over time it became less and less socially acceptable to have people working for nothing with no rights and no pay.
Bad news for you, slavery is still practiced in the world today, even in Zurich, believe it or not. And its not all voluntary either.
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  #191  
Old 16.09.2016, 12:58
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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Dunno, it worked for slavery, for example. Over time it became less and less socially acceptable to have people working for nothing with no rights and no pay.

Works the other way, too, obviously, but society's behaviour is fluid and open to changing attitudes.

Switzerland seems to have a higher acceptance of, in this case, homophobia than other parts of the world, therefore, some influence has changed the behaviour pattern here but not elsewhere.
I'm not sure if slavery is a good example here.

It took a war and about 700,000 deaths to get rid of that, and a lot of people still haven't got over it today, and neither has the social inequality been fixed.

So if that's a shining example of correcting a problem the right way, I don't really want to know of things that in your eyes were badly solved.
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  #192  
Old 16.09.2016, 13:01
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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Bad news for you, slavery is still practiced in the world today, even in Zurich, believe it or not. And its not all voluntary either.
I didn't say it doesn't happen, and maybe an echo of it does still happen here today, I was making the point that society can change its views, attitudes and behaviour towards something. You implied that even religion or politics ('commies and fascists') couldn't do it and the alternative was "tyranny".

The general view of a lot of things has changed over the generations. Not everywhere and not for the same issues but society can change its attitudes. You don't need tyranny, you just need education.

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I'm not sure if slavery is a good example here.

It took a war and about 700,000 deaths to get rid of that, and a lot of people still haven't got over it today, and neither has the social inequality been fixed.

So if that's a shining example of correcting a problem the right way, I don't really want to know of things that in your eyes were badly solved.
I've no idea how many homosexual men and women have died for their orientation over the centuries and it has been a very slow process to get to the tolerance levels we see today. So, in a way, it can be compared.

I don't think it's the correct way or solving a problem but my original comment was to counter Phos' statement that society doesn't change.
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  #193  
Old 16.09.2016, 13:29
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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All witnesses (they were in a group of 6) have suggested there was nothing untoward going on.
Read the comments to the Blick articles, many homosexuals don't get thrown out fore kissing only, they know from experience.

A "Schmatzer" (a quick dry kiss) takes a couple seconds at most. How likely is it that a bouncer would even notice?

And as for witnesses, I've only seen one mentioned (Samantha Soemthing or some similar name). That's one out of four unless you provide references for the others.
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  #194  
Old 16.09.2016, 13:59
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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I'm not sure if slavery is a good example here.

It took a war and about 700,000 deaths to get rid of that, ...
Only in the US. Abolition proceeded rather differently in Europe.
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  #195  
Old 16.09.2016, 14:02
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

I consider the Nelson to be a bit of craphole - a crappy version of a crappy boozer in the UK. It works for a quick after work pint if you can get in before happy hour finishes.

But for some reason - I really want to go and have a beer there now.
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  #196  
Old 16.09.2016, 14:08
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

10-11 years ago I was in there regularly but stopped going because the bar staff at the time seem to have problems counting, especially when it came to change.

It didn't seem to be so bad, has it really gone down that badly? I may have to visit and refresh my memory.
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  #197  
Old 16.09.2016, 14:14
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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Only in the US. Abolition proceeded rather differently in Europe.
Maybe it was easier for them because slavery wasn't as prevalent in Europe at the time.

Furthermore, Europe was complicit in American slavery as it imported large quantities of cotton from the USA.
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  #198  
Old 16.09.2016, 14:18
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

From a business perspective:

In a non-gay bar, most people spending the money are straight men.

Women kissing women can only help business.

Men kissing men will drive it down.

Basic economics.

Tom
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  #199  
Old 16.09.2016, 14:20
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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I consider the Nelson to be a bit of craphole - a crappy version of a crappy boozer in the UK.
Does it have a flat roof?
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  #200  
Old 16.09.2016, 14:20
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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the bar staff at the time seem to have problems counting, especially when it came to change.
They now work in the FIFA bar
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