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  #221  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:27
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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I think my concern here is that my original question of:

If the Nelson kicked gay people out for kissing, that's bad, isn't it?
(a pretty cut and dried "if they did, that's bad" for me)

Has now morphed into:

"Gay (and other minorities) people should know their place", which sits very uneasily with me indeed.
StirB, if it as simple as that, yes i would agree it is wrong. But there is a lot of context missing, don't you think?

That is why I suggest we go there, chat with others ,investigate, meet Aria, and deliberate afterwards. But I can't promise you more than stealing a feel when I'm not looking. I'll buy the drink.
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  #222  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:32
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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I don't think any group or person should "know their place", except insofar as I see society as a cooperative endeavour
Indeed. If a few entitled pricks (middle-class "straight" white males in particular) knew their rightful place, the world might be a little better.
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  #223  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:34
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

Little known facts about The Nelson and Lady Hamilton:
The pub was based on the one from Men Behaving badly - just with a poorer choice of crisps

Lady Hamilton was designed to specifically ape every Student Union bar in the UK from around 1995

The Nelson was the first pub in Switzerland to promote a "Happy Hour" - an hour for people who's life choices have lead them to drink in a pub at 4pm - every weekday

To this day the Nelson takes the used cigarette butts from the ashtrays - soaks them overnight in a 50/50 mix of water and urine - and then sprays small areas of the pub with it prior to opening
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  #224  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:36
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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I wasn't there, so I don't know if it was just a kiss. In my book, every single human being needs, and deserves, love and kissing is a perfectly normal expression of that.

I don't know why they were kicked out, and I have no particular reason to believe that either side is presenting an honest description of what happened.

I don't think any group or person should "know their place", except insofar as I see society as a cooperative endeavour, meaning that people and society would be best served by more tolerance for any activity which is not causing harm to any group or individual, or breaking a law (eg. one which precludes performing an intimate sexual act in a public place).

Good, we're in full agreement then!
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  #225  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:37
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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Men ogling women making out aren't drinking.
You've clearly never been to a strip joint in the US.

We used to go Thursday lunch, 25c beers and free entry!

Tom
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  #226  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:37
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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StirB, if it as simple as that, yes i would agree it is wrong. But there is a lot of context missing, don't you think?

That is why I suggest we go there, chat with others ,investigate, meet Aria, and deliberate afterwards. But I can't promise you more than stealing a feel when I'm not looking. I'll buy the drink.
I don't think there's any context missing from "If Nelson threw gays out for kissing, that's bad".
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  #227  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:38
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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You've clearly never been to a strip joint in the US.

We used to go Thursday lunch, 25c beers and free entry!

Tom
You are correct, I haven't, I find them seedy as fook.

There's a reason a bottle of beer costs upwards of 20chf in those places here though (in 2016, not 1970s rural America )...so I've been told.
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  #228  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:39
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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You've clearly never been to a strip joint in the US.
I once went to a strip mall in the US.

It was somewhat disappointing.
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  #229  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:40
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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I once went to a strip mall in the US.

It was somewhat disappointing.
Were you the only one who did?

Although you could have also said:

I once went to a strip mall in the US. It was somewhat disappointing.
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  #230  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:49
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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Good, we're in full agreement then!
Except that you think the thread has morphed into some normative statement about how homosexuals should behave, yes.
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  #231  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:49
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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You are correct, I haven't, I find them seedy as fook.

There's a reason a bottle of beer costs upwards of 20chf in those places here though (in 2016, not 1970s rural America )...so I've been told.
Actually, mid-'80s Fairfield County, one of the richest in the US, and not exactly rural.

They might be up to a buck these days.

And in Texas, going to a titty-bar was part of the job interview.

(at least the drinks and lap-dance were on the company )

Tom
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  #232  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:57
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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And in Texas, going to a titty-bar was part of the job interview.
And closing business deals with the Japanese.
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  #233  
Old 16.09.2016, 15:58
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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You've clearly never been to a strip joint in the US.

We used to go Thursday lunch, 25c beers and free entry!

Tom
I have a friend in Texas whose office is right next to a strip joint.

They do a lunchtime cover charge of something like 8$ including free buffet and free non alcoholic drinks.

The entire office goes there every Friday lunchtime to eat and go back into the office afterwards .

Those co-workers not interested in the strippers just look away. Its not that difficult.
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  #234  
Old 16.09.2016, 16:01
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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You are correct, I haven't, I find them seedy as fook.

There's a reason a bottle of beer costs upwards of 20chf in those places here though (in 2016, not 1970s rural America )...so I've been told.
In the US I have never found the beer prices too bad - the choice of beer is a bit crap. Food also tends to be pretty reasonable (for bar food) in the decent strip places. They make their money on drinks for the girls and the private dances/extras.

You also get a surprisingly high number of "mixed" groups in them.

A completely different experience to those in London - especially at the cheap end of the market
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  #235  
Old 16.09.2016, 16:02
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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You are correct, I haven't, I find them seedy as fook.
So either you've never been to one or you find them seedy, but you can't really have both.
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  #236  
Old 16.09.2016, 16:06
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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So either you've never been to one or you find them seedy, but you can't really have both.
Sure, as a younger, weaker-willed man on occasion I've been in as part of stag groups, etc, in various cities in various countries. Even in the nicer countries and nicer cities and 'nicer' joints, they are still seedy as hell


None were what you seem to be suggesting is the American model, which sounds like a Hooters at lunchtime, where you can go in for food and beer and ignore the girls. That certainly isn't the business model I've seen in any European one.

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  #237  
Old 16.09.2016, 16:09
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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In the US I have never found the beer prices too bad - the choice of beer is a bit crap. Food also tends to be pretty reasonable (for bar food) in the decent strip places.
American beer has gone from totally cr#p stuff like Millers, Bud and Coors to pretty awesome stuff such as IPAs and microbrews and things that have spring up all over the place, the best of which are already equal with the best European beers in my opinion. They are actually becoming so common that even normal places serve them now, and even strip clubs. So if you still think American brews are boring its time for another trip.

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They make their money on drinks for the girls and the private dances/extras.
I don't have a clue how some of those places make any money at all. The competition is fierce and prices are low. Money laundering maybe?

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You also get a surprisingly high number of "mixed" groups in them.

A completely different experience to those in London - especially at the cheap end of the market
yeah, or Switzerland for that matter.
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  #238  
Old 16.09.2016, 16:18
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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American beer has gone from totally cr#p stuff like Millers, Bud and Coors to pretty awesome stuff such as IPAs and microbrews and things that have spring up all over the place
The US joints I went to a few years back were all selling bottled stuff - which meant the usual selection (Bud, Corona, etc).

For beer I was happy enough drinking in Valhalla (Devil's Kitchen*) - reasonable selection on tap - not quite as good as Porters (Little 5 Points**) - but it more than suffices.





*Easy city
**Little harder city
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  #239  
Old 16.09.2016, 16:48
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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The US joints I went to a few years back were all selling bottled stuff
There's a reason for that...

Tom
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  #240  
Old 16.09.2016, 17:19
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Re: Homophobia in the Nelson Bar

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The US joints I went to a few years back were all selling bottled stuff - which meant the usual selection (Bud, Corona, etc).
I'm not too sure about the whole of the States, but in Ontario, the places with the widest selection stock it in bottles. There will be at least 4 beers on tap ranging from a lager to something fairly dark. If it is a sports bar they will have some "near beer", but the selection just from the microbreweries usually has something interesting. I went to a roadhouse place near Detroit, they offered the same 3 crap draft as they did in the mid '80s, but then they still cater to the same clientel, who only wanted cheap beer.
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