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Old 09.01.2017, 01:54
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New Youtuber needs help please

Not sure if this is the correct section. I couldn't figure out where else to post it.

Hi all. I haven't stopped by in ages. Message boards and social media aren't really my thing unless I need help with something.

BUT all that might change soon.

I'm planning a Youtube channel and find all the legalities regarding copyright, standard youtube licenses, monetization, etc. difficult to get my head around.

I'm hoping there are some experienced Youtubers around here who can help me make better sense out of it all. I've done a lot of research on my own, but I'd like to get some direct input from people who I can actually ask questions to, instead of the many videos Youtube puts out to "explain" it. I often get more confused after their explanations.

Can anyone take the time to help me? Thanks a lot.
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Old 09.01.2017, 04:10
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJg...xh-2jK0aBWoSXw

give this guy a shot, I'm not sure how much pertains to the United States only. But it might help.
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Old 09.01.2017, 16:43
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

Hi stage man. Thanks for replying.

Thanks for that link. He seems pretty knowledgeable, to the point and easy to listen to. I watched a few already that seem to pertain to my questions, but I'm not sure he covers some of the things I'm concerned about.

For example, what actually constitutes "fair use"? YouTube, from what I've researched on my own, doesn't seem to mention that, and this guy has only skimmed over the meaning and rules.

I have a feeling that the same rules apply to everyone in every country since all channel owners sign the same YouTube TOS and must agree to everything at the start, especially when they monetize.

YouTube copyright rules seem to be more concerned with Creative Commons licenses and getting permissions and giving credit, but I haven't seen mention of fair use.

I see videos that always give credit to the owner of a piece of music, but they also use other popular music, video clips, pictures, in the same video and there is no credit given or usage permission shown for those clips even in the description. So I don't understand this.

If I have the radio, CD, or tv playing in the background, and audio and/or video can be seen or heard, is that allowed? This is commonly done and I don't know if that is considered fair use.

I'll give you a couple of for instances. The well-known YouTuber Casey Neistat always gives credit in his videos to artists whose music he uses. I'm sure he has their permission. Casey is famous and he has a lot of friends and contacts in the film and music industries who regularly send him music to use.

But here's the for instance: in one video of his he gives credit in the video for a piece of music. But in the same video he uses the "Happy Days" theme song, Neil Sedaka singing "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do", a video clip from "The Wizard of Oz", and in his epilogue he has "The Godfather" movie (without audio) playing on a monitor behind him. But he does not give credit for those things or show he has permission to use them.

This is not the only video of his where he does things like that. He does it in most of them. And he is not the only one who does this. Another one who comes to mind is Philip Defranco (another popular YouTuber).

As they also often have ads and earn money from them, how are they (the famous/popular or unknown amateurs) able to get around that whether they monetize or not?

Besides using material from approved free music archives and giving the appropriate credit, how can I do what Casey, Philip, and others do without getting into trouble?

At the moment this is my biggest concern, although I do have others. I just want to first get this cleared up.

Thanks to anyone who can help me out.
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Old 09.01.2017, 16:59
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

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For example, what actually constitutes "fair use"? YouTube, from what I've researched on my own, doesn't seem to mention that, and this guy has only skimmed over the meaning and rules.
fair use is not that difficult.

If you are using somebody's music to go with your video, that's not fair use as the music is part of the product in its direct and as intened form.

If you are doing a documentary or a video log and you mention or explain or bitch about somebody else's music, your listeners may not follow your argument if they don't know the music as well as you do. You might therefore blend in some short snippets to remind people how that music goes or to underline your arguments. The shorter those snippets are, the less likely that the lawyers will be taking any interest in you.

In short, free speech is stronger than copyright. But for it to be free speech you have to actually say something.
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Old 09.01.2017, 17:13
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

Hi amogles. Thanks for replying.

I understand what you're saying and I am planning a vlog. Not journalism or reviews.

Your examples are helpful to me but only to a point. Casey and Philip are famous and I know that YouTube and copyright lawyers are completely aware of what they do.

But they also aren't exempt from the rules just because of their fame or earnings. They do use others' music, video, pictures etc., all the time without giving credits or showing permissions, as I mentioned above. Sometimes short, sometimes not so short.

How can I do something like that and also not get into trouble?

Thanks.
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Old 09.01.2017, 22:53
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

This page is quite explanatory https://www.youtube.com/yt/copyright...ight-resources

Fair use and stuff like that is never really defined, the courts decide what is fair use and what is not.
Now, you're using youtube, so it will never go to court. Either they take down your video or send all the money generated by that video to the copyright owner directly.
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Old 09.01.2017, 23:41
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

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This page is quite explanatory https://www.youtube.com/yt/copyright...ight-resources

Fair use and stuff like that is never really defined, the courts decide what is fair use and what is not.
Now, you're using youtube, so it will never go to court. Either they take down your video or send all the money generated by that video to the copyright owner directly.
I did a video once while driving in France. MJ was on the radio. I got flagged for it. I signed over any potential monetization to the copyright holders.

BTW- uploaded videos are electronically compared against YT's database for audio copyright infringement.

OP: Fair Use, Creative Commons, royalties, copyrights, etc. can all be very confusing. I am no expert, but a week or so of research should give you enough base knowledge to keep you out of trouble.
Like anything on the internet- if it sounds too good (i.e. just give credit in your video description), it's probably BS.
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Old 10.01.2017, 00:53
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

Hi Meerkat33 and VFR on top. Thank you both for replying.

@Meerkat33: Thank you. That's the type of thing I was looking for. I can't believe I missed it (the link for Fair Use way down at the bottom of the page). I'd been to that page before but somehow that link slipped by me.

I've read through a couple of the links already and they seem very easy to understand as they use very limited amounts of legalese and more plain English. Although copyright law is very complicated, the guidelines given are as clear as they can possibly be. I guess that's what I've taken away from what I just read and that whether or not a video is monetized, fair use can be asserted and granted if questioned if the video creator follows those guidelines as best they can.

@VFR on top:

I knew that YouTube has algorithms that search for and identify copyrighted works, but I didn't know that YouTube also offers even some limited protection to creators, or that copyright holders must first consider fair use (as outlined in the guidelines) before they send a takedown notice to YouTube.

Maybe four or five years ago I posted a video I'd recorded from TV of Neil Diamond at Glastonbury. I had seen many videos from concerts (from TV or self-filmed) on YouTube and didn't see the harm in it. I think at that time is when there was a lot of discussion in the news about YouTube and copyright laws in general. Needless to say that video was taken down and I got a message from YouTube about it. The message doesn't exist anymore but in effect it said something like, if they continued to receive takedown requests for videos on my account, my page would be closed down and I could face legal problems. So I didn't upload anymore.

BUT...I had posted another recording (from the same TV channel) at the same time and didn't receive a notice or have the video removed. It wasn't a concert clip but there is music in it. It's still up there. Go figure.

@All: Thanks to all who replied. You were all helpful. I suppose what I've learned so far from the links I've read now is that I shouldn't have a problem if I just follow the guidelines as best I can and don't go overboard.

I do plan to use as much Creative Commons free music archives as possible, with appropriate credits. But sometimes what you really want is the only thing that'll work for your message.

EDIT:

@VFR on top:

I think, but not completely sure, that a channel owner who monetizes can choose which videos are monetized and which are not. Is that true? That might also help me if I do ever decide to use something as fair use and decide to not receive money from that video. What are your thoughts, since it happened to you? Or anyone else here.

Last edited by catflap; 10.01.2017 at 01:04.
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Old 10.01.2017, 12:39
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

Okay, I'm back again.

Staying on the same subject briefly for now (sorry)...

But first to explain: until recently I mostly ignored YouTube except for when I needed a cat or epic fail video fix. A couple of months ago I started exploring YT and saw that it had really changed and improved since I had posted a few videos of my own (mentioned above) and then just left it because I got a takedown notice and was pissed off. I didn't have a smart phone or camera to contribute anything, nor was even interested in watching vlogs about shopping or make-up.

And so I discovered, rather late, Casey Neistat. This week I discovered Sara Dietschy who has recently exploded on YT and elsewhere on the web.

So, watching Saras vlogs I have noticed that she sometimes doesn't put music credit in the video, but she always (I think) gives the credit in the description with a link to the artists website, or YouTube channel, and almost always a Soundcloud link.

So my question to anyone here, especially anyone who has a YT channel, is that alright to do? Is that the proper or appropriate way to give credit?

I ask this because she and others often use much longer clips for intros, outros and inbetween. Sometimes an entire song will play throughout the video.

As we've already discussed the fair use situation, this is a little bit different than that, concerning how to give credit. I think I read recently that for free music with a Creative Commons license, credit must be given inside the work or video.

But Sara and others seem to be using music that isn't covered by Creative Commons, and instead just posting those links. I mean, it might constitute fair use when analysed, but what about the credit question? Is the video description considered part of the work?

Is this acceptable? Just a Soundcloud link or YT link to the artists or song?

Thanks again for any help.
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  #10  
Old 10.01.2017, 13:02
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

Giving credit does not constitute fair usage. Linking to somebody's website or shop is also not fair usage. Possibly the vloggers in question have some sort of agreement or permission (some professional youtubers are better set up than you might think). Possibly they are still flying under the radar and the law will catch up with them some day. Possible the copyright holders are just being tolerant. Maybe they're just getting lucky. But the fact they are doing it doesn't create a legal precedent. You can't do something just because somebody else does it and gets away with it.

There is lots of stuff on youtube. There are full movies and TV series. People have filmed entire concerts on their smart phones and uploaded them. It's a jungle out there and some people are sailing very close to the wind. What they are doing has nothing whatsover to do with the concept of fair usage.

So sorry to sound so negative. You might well get away with it and never have a problem. Whether or not you want to risk that is your decision. But juts be clear in your own mind that really it isn't legal.

On ths side besides my day job I'm involved in a small publishing company doing academic books. Now of coure there is a huge difference between academic books and vlogs, but we too have to deal with a lot of discussions on fair usage. Authors like to quote stuff (both text and illustrations) from other authors and other publishers and we are continually rapping their knuckles and telling them to shorten quotes to the essential and to quote stuff only when it is really necessary. So far our relationship with the people we have been quoting has been amicable (we know some of them personally) and we never recieved a specific complaint. It's good to keep things that way.
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Old 10.01.2017, 13:07
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

Hi again amogles.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not asking if giving credit is fair use.

I'm asking if only posting the links is an appropriate way to give credit, fair use or not - the way the credit is given.
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Old 10.01.2017, 14:08
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

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Hi again amogles.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not asking if giving credit is fair use.

I'm asking if only posting the links is an appropriate way to give credit, fair use or not - the way the credit is given.
I do not believe there is a universally appropriate way to give credit. This is something that varies from case to case and copyright holders may provide guidelines on their preferred form
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Old 11.01.2017, 01:40
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

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So, watching Saras vlogs I have noticed that she sometimes doesn't put music credit in the video, but she always (I think) gives the credit in the description with a link to the artists website, or YouTube channel, and almost always a Soundcloud link.
I went to look to one of these videos, the music she gave credit to was copyright free, which is like the CC0 license of the creative commons licenses or maybe the author forfeited the copright in some other way. So you see vloggers tend to stay on the safe side. Giving credit in the description is the norm in these cases, but they might specify what they prefer on their channel.
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Old 11.01.2017, 08:45
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

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Hi again amogles.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm not asking if giving credit is fair use.

I'm asking if only posting the links is an appropriate way to give credit, fair use or not - the way the credit is given.
This is one of the fallacies- that merely giving credit or posting the link in your description absolves you of copyright infringement. It doesn't.

It's initially up to you to determine if and how you are going to use other's content.

As another poster commented, some will tell you. Many websites offering "royalty free" or CC content will specify how to give credit and to whom. Some want a link to their website, others a specific mention of the artist, etc. Many others don't. Other videos show you how to look up who owns the copyright of songs and how to go ask permission for use.

It's also how you use it. Screen capturing a movie and reposting is clearly not fair use. Yet many movies exist on YT. If your channel is about films and film study, and you are uploading portions of movie clips and providing critique, then that would be more in line with fair use.

Now here is the rub. Like anything, it is up to the copyright holder to enforce the claim. YT has some algorithms to support this, but they themselves are not acting as the claimant. If they flag your video, it's either tripped some algorithm or the copyright holder has made a claim. You will be given a chance to respond. There is an online form to fill out and gives you several options to choose for why you think your content is not copyright material. It's a trap. Most of the choices are not valid arguments. YT does this to limit their liability. You are basically self declaring copyright infringement and then easier for YT to defend taking your video down. There are plenty of videos on YouTube telling you how to navigate the questionnaire to mark the "right"answers. Again, YT are not acting as the copyright claimant, so even if your video stays up because you navigated the form correctly, the real copyright owner can still enforce their claim - which will ultimately be in a court of law.

What this means is don't get too worried if you get flagged. You won't go to jail and you won't get fined. The flip side however, is that the presence of your video on YT (pre or post flag) is not a confirmation that you are correctly using copyright material. You may still have serious liability. So, be smart and learn as you go.
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Old 11.01.2017, 11:09
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

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Not sure if this is the correct section.
Not really. EF is an Anglophone for English speakers with an interest or actually living in Switzerland. What you should be Googling for is more specific to being a YourTuber.

Indeed, all the responses you've gotten here so far are essentially other people Googling for you - I'd imagine had you done so yourself, as none appear to be experts, it would have been far less effort than the rather extensive posts.
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Old 11.01.2017, 13:35
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

Hi all. Thanks for all the replies.

Because I'm/will be new to YT I'd already been wading through a lot of info on my own for a while before I even thought of asking for help and ideas from anyone here.

@Meerkat33: I sent you a PM.

@VFR on top:

Thanks for those ideas. I haven't looked for videos on getting permissions and giving credit. I didn't know they existed. It's all new to me. I'd been mostly googling for text from official and non-official sources as well as the google faqs. I like to read at my own pace to try and understand, but I will look for videos now.

*****

Like I said, I don't use message boards much unless I need help on something, usually technical. But I want to change all that now.

I once wrote a long letter to TELE (translated into German by TELE/Ringier and turned into an article - I received no pay). And I wrote an article (paid) for the English-language magazine Swiss News before they changed their format to a business-oriented periodical.

I used to write articles for free on a couple of websites. I did that for a couple of years but got fed up when comments sections became filled with spammers and haters.

So what I'm saying there is, I know how to do research on my own, but this YT thing is much different and more difficult than what I'd been used to.

I thought it would be good to be able to talk with people in my own location and time zone so that there wouldn't be much of a lag in the discussion. Hoping there could be experienced Youtubers here (and anyone else with first-hand experience and knowledge) whose brains I could pick, besides doing my own research.

As well, a meeting on phone, Whatsapp, Skype, or even in person could be possible if warranted and agreed to. I'm always interested in meeting people in Switzerland, especially expats and other English speakers.

Articles and videos are helpful, but I also appreciate and value input from people who I can correspond with.

I thank everyone who has replied. You've all been very helpful and I would like to keep this thread going because I'm hoping other people might stop by and share their experiences and knowledge. I might also (I'm sure I will) still have questions anyway as I slog through it all.
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Old 11.01.2017, 15:48
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

QUICK NOTE (sorry I also hate double posting)

@Meerkat33:

You can disregard the PM I sent you. I figured it out and I'm gonna try to do things that way. Thanks a lot!

@VFR on top:

Thanks again. I haven't forgotten you and I will def look at videos re: permission/credit, etc. and still investigate on the CC sites.

@All others seeing this:

I hadn't figured out how people were using some specific music tracks freely
but Meerkat33's post above steered me in the right direction.

Now, who's gonna help me with editing? j/k for now. I have a loose grip on some basics with some easy free programs and a couple more complicated ones, but don't be surprised if I pop up here to ask for assistance in the future.

I haven't started filming anything to post yet, but I will within the next month or so. Gotta practice some editing and do some personal stuff.

Thanks again to all.

By the way, on the music side, if anyone knows of some cool free music that can be used (maybe even your own) please drop me a line.
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Old 11.01.2017, 22:30
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

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Indeed, all the responses you've gotten here so far are essentially other people Googling for you - I'd imagine had you done so yourself, as none appear to be experts, it would have been far less effort than the rather extensive posts.
Well to be fair, although i'm not an expert I didn't have to google anything if not to find sources to back up my claims, and I've been following some of the hot debates on the youtube scene. But I agree that this kind of stuff is discussed ad nauseam by youtubers themselves and the information is definitely out there.

Quote:
So what I'm saying there is, I know how to do research on my own, but this YT thing is much different and more difficult than what I'd been used to.
When confronted with something new like copyright, which you seem to not know very well, wikipedia is your friend. Once you did your research and know the background you can ask google the right things and get the answers you want. Also I suggest you look at vlogs of some opinion leaders of the youtube scene to get the gist of how it all works.
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Old 11.01.2017, 22:41
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Re: New Youtuber needs help please

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Well to be fair, although i'm not an expert I didn't have to google anything if not to find sources to back up my claims
I wasn't criticizing you at all.
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