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  #181  
Old 03.10.2011, 20:05
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

I was really nice for 8 months, now not anymore ;-)
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  #182  
Old 15.10.2011, 12:37
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

I find this tread very interesting. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion and to be able to share it on this forum.
That being said, I can't help but notice many Nazi-esque Swiss people throwing around slogans such as "If you don't like Switzerland, why don"t you leave". So long as immigrants maintain their legal status, and pay taxes and abide by Swiss laws, they can live in Switzerland and hate it at the same time.
If the Swiss can't take criticism, then perhaps they are too Chauvinistic. In more advanced societies, individuals see themselves as "citizens of the world", which enables them to easily take criticism of their own country, or to criticize their own country without being personally attacked! Obviously, this is not true for many Swissies. Especially the UDC (the xenophobic Swiss People's Party) members!

I would like to present some hard facts here:
"Swiss people voted a new parliament in 2007, giving the right-wing Swiss People's Party a consolidated grip on power. UN Human Rights are fearful of the xenophobia that characterized Switzerland, and condemned laws that target the country's immigrants as unjust and racist. The Swiss People's Party which has the largest number of seats in the Swiss parliament and is a member of the country's coalition government, drew worldwide condemnation with an ad campaign depicting three white sheep kicking a black sheep off a Swiss flag. "
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_...pe#Switzerland

Thanks to judengeld and laundering money for the world"s dictatorial regimes and rich bankers, Switzerland went from being the poorest country in Western Europe to being one of the richest. When the world's banking system finally collapses, Swiss will go back to owning 1-2 cows, and scraping the floor for bread crumbs.
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  #183  
Old 15.10.2011, 13:19
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

Of course you can live here, work and pay your taxes, and complain about absolutely everything and hate it all with a passion. Your right- but what is the POINT?? We all have things to complain about, and I am prepared to complain about some aspects of my own country, and also laugh at some features- same as I did wherever I lived abroad. Normal.

But there seems to be some people here who just hate everything they see around them, have made up their mind that all Swiss and everything Swiss is boring, backward, bordering on the fascist - and nothing it seems will make you change your mind. So again, what is the POINT of staying? It is horse for course, no country will suit everybody - so if you basically love it here, but have 'normal' criticisms and concerns about SOME aspects of life here, fair enough. Otherwise, FOR YOUR OWN SAKE - life's too short honestly. If you come to the conclusion Switzerland is NOT for you, bite the bullet and go and enjoy life elsewhere- and I wish you the very very best.

Please remember though, that if you've lived and worked in one area of Switzerland- that it might not be representative of the country as a whole. Just like living in Phoenix Arizona maybe VERY different in so many ways to living in Boston or Detroit... A few months in one area is no basis for fair judgement.
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  #184  
Old 15.10.2011, 13:46
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

WOW. Thanks for proving my point. You conveniently skipped over the hard facts I presented in my previous post (the quoted text). According to you, the UN Human Rights commission are also confined to a small, xenophobic area of Switzerland, which is somehow quite different from other areas of this vast geographic area! If only they could see the rest of Switzerland!
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  #185  
Old 15.10.2011, 16:27
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

If you choose to distort what I am saying, again you are perfectly free to do so. Surely you can see that someone living in the deep south of the US would have a very different experience- especially if they happen to be from certain ethnic groups - to say New York or San Fran. I can assure you that racism is alive and kicking with a great number of Americans, and this particularly in some areas. I know many people in the US who cannot cope at all with the fact their President is black - and even believe he is a 'hidden' Muslim and a terrorist plant. Have you lived in the Deep South, or near the Mexican border?

It is a fact that xenophobia is much less evident in Romandie. Switzerland is not vast, but it is very diverse I can assure you. But you seem very keen to hold on to your prejudices, sadly. There is good and bad everywhere- and there is no point in denying that some have xenophobic or racist views (the UDC represents about 30% of the population) and that illegal immigrants are often treated like criminals. Are you telling me that this is better in the US- in which case you need to do a bit more studying. And let's not talk about Guantanamo!

I abhor racism, wherever it hails from - but lets not pretend it is a Swiss speciality.
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  #186  
Old 15.10.2011, 17:00
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

Ok,here's the thing: Switzerland Is and always will be a little different country with slightly ,,different,, people...
But it's neutral-so no wars. And it's clean-no rubbish on streets (like in London or any other European city). It has it's own rules-and yes-you do have to follow them! But they are there to take care of this country and people, so it doesn't turn savvy, bad economy, ,,taking all the illegals in and paying them all the benefits,while they do nothing and you work your ass off,, country like for example UK!!! I lived 6 years in the UK and I hated it-the country,the people,the whole system and what a low salaries! You work there like a slave.And then pay most of it for what-a shity,little apartments.How can londoneers even call them houses or apartments or gARDENS??!! Look aroun here! At least in here it's beautiful(they still have some green and forests left,what I can't say to UK),clean,no savviness and people taking pi.. on benefits,no low salaries,no bull...t! I lived in many countries and this one is the best, so far. It has everything.And yes-while the swiss has the highest suicide rate(probably because they over work and can't see the beauty of their country or lives),doesn't mean that they are all depressing nagging pedantic nobs! If someone doesn't like it in here-just go back to the low society,savvy,stupid,rotten people and streets-like London or any other under paid,dirty countries.Because if you cant't value this beautiful country with it's amazing culture and nature-then this is where you belong to! But again-this is JUST my opinion.
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  #187  
Old 15.10.2011, 17:05
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

...and why are you almost all moaning in this and other forums about this country and people,laws and rules and god know what???!!! Why are you in here then? HAH? Go back to your own country or for example live some time in African-Somalia or nigeria or Kongo for example-and lets see then...How you survive and like it.
WTF? People are so weird...Don't know how to value what they have...Until they loose it.
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  #188  
Old 15.10.2011, 18:36
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

@Lysse. I am sure Germany during the 1930-ies was economically a much more advanced country than, say, Somalia. Economic prosperity does not negate the racist culture. I make a good living in Switzerland (yes, I have 2 graduate degrees!), but I do realize that UDC is the most prominent party here, similar to the National Socialists of the last century Germany. There is a good reason the UN Human Rights commission is alarmed about the wide-spread xenophobia in Switzerland. While not all Swiss are racist, racism is an inherent part of Swiss culture.
@All others. I am not American.
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  #189  
Old 15.10.2011, 18:51
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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I am not American.
Then your user name would be more accurate as "dumb_troll".

It makes me smile when people consider Switzerland racist (we had a marathon thread on this subject here some years ago) and xenophobic. When I was a teenager in the USA blacks & whites were segregated and the KKK were burning people...
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  #190  
Old 15.10.2011, 18:55
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

@Odile.
I agree that the US is a racist country as well. But this thread is about Switzerland, not other countries. You are welcome to start one on the US. I will be happy to post there, too!
Although I am not American, I know many Americans who have the fortitude to admit to the backwardness and racism of the US culture. You could learn a lot from those Americans.
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  #191  
Old 15.10.2011, 19:06
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Then your user name would be more accurate as "dumb_troll".

It makes me smile when people consider Switzerland racist (we had a marathon thread on this subject here some years ago) and xenophobic. When I was a teenager in the USA blacks & whites were segregated and the KKK were burning people...
Wow! You were alive at the time of racial segregation in the US? Then your user name would be more accurate as "Ab_Flab". Ok, I take it back, I respect senior citizens.
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  #192  
Old 15.10.2011, 19:13
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Wow! You were alive at the time of racial segregation in the US? Then your user name would be more accurate as "Ab_Flab". Ok, I take it back, I respect senior citizens.
Obviously you don't. May I just call you dumb?
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  #193  
Old 15.10.2011, 19:16
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

These personal attacks suggest that I am really onto something here!
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  #194  
Old 15.10.2011, 19:22
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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These personal attacks suggest that I am really onto something here!
This would have some basis, but you are the one making the attacks...
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  #195  
Old 15.10.2011, 19:30
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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These personal attacks suggest that I am really onto something here!
Yeah. It means you're making an a$$ of yourself.
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  #196  
Old 15.10.2011, 19:36
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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I would like to present some hard facts here:
"Swiss people voted a new parliament in 2007, giving the right-wing Swiss People's Party a consolidated grip on power.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_...pe#Switzerland

That article is one fine example why we should not trust the "hard facts" of Wikipedia too much. Example, in the middle of the paragraph about Switzerland, it says:

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-, Swiss People's Party passed a new naturalisation procedure in 2007, called Democratic Naturalisation in this new procedure foreigners must often be approved by the entire voting community, in a secret ballot, or a show of hands. A report, from Switzerland's Federal Commission on Racial Discrimination, into the new process of naturalisation says the current system is discriminatory and in many respects racist, and recommends far-reaching changes. It criticises the practice of allowing members of a community to vote on an individual's citizenship application.
That is actually utter BS.

First of all, the SVP can not pass laws. That sentence was most probably written by a person from a bi-partisan, majority-takes-it-all country who has no knowledge at all about the Swiss political system.

More importantly, it is also totally wrong:

The naturalisation by vote was the old system, practised mostly in smaller villages. Later on, the federal supreme court (indirectly) ruled this process unconstitutional, by saying that it violates the right to appeal such as decision (simplification here). So the process was changed. The SVP then tried to reinstate the old system through an initiative called "Democratic Naturalistion", which was very clearly rejected by the voters.


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Thanks to judengeld and laundering money for the world"s dictatorial regimes and rich bankers, Switzerland went from being the poorest country in Western Europe to being one of the richest. When the world's banking system finally collapses, Swiss will go back to owning 1-2 cows, and scraping the floor for bread crumbs.
This is factually incorrect. Switzerland was one of the richest countries in Europe in the 19th century allready.

That does not mean that we profited from the things you mentioned, but the way you present it just does not make sense, that is, if we admit that time-machines have not been invented yet.

Maybe, a way to get into more constructive dialogues with Swiss people would be to brush up your facts..
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  #197  
Old 15.10.2011, 19:43
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Wow! You were alive at the time of racial segregation in the US? Then your user name would be more accurate as "Ab_Flab". Ok, I take it back, I respect senior citizens.

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91. The Special Rapporteur also noted that the socio-economic marginalization of racial or ethnic minorities has become more acute due to what he perceived as a slow process of de facto re-segregation in many areas of the American society. In particular, in his visits to metropolitan
areas, he noted the striking pattern of ethnic and racial cleavages that persist and which are being reinforced by processes such as gentrification in neighbourhoods historically inhabited by minorities. A related aspect is the process of re-segregation in public schools. Several studies have shown that the present level of segregation is similar to that of the late 1960s. These processes not only contribute to keep racial groups physically separated, but also affect the marginalization of public services in areas that are predominantly attended by minorities.
That quote is from the 2009 (sic) report of the special Rapporteur to the United Nations Council of Human Rights.

That does not, in any way, make the SVP campaign better. It just shows that the Special Rapporteur is doing his job: Reporting racism or discrimination where he finds it.
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  #198  
Old 15.10.2011, 19:48
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

If you trust BBC, then here you go:
"An official report into the process of naturalisation in Switzerland says the current system is discriminatory and in many respects racist..."
You are welcome to read the article here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6992670.stm

It may have been changed later (if we must take your word for it), but the practice was there, at least in 2007!

“The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.”
― Gloria Steinem
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Old 15.10.2011, 19:54
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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If you trust BBC, then here you go:
"An official report into the process of naturalisation in Switzerland says the current system is discriminatory and in many respects racist..."
You are welcome to read the article here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6992670.stm

It may have been changed later (if we must take your word for it), but the practice was there, at least in 2007!

“The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.”
― Gloria Steinem
You really seem to be an expert in truthiness. I said it was there, then it was changed, so the Wikipedia article is wrong, period.

Quote:
Truthiness is a "truth" that a person claims to know intuitively "from the gut" or that it "feels right" without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts.[1]
From one of the better articles on Wikipedia
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Old 15.10.2011, 19:58
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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I find this tread very interesting. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion and to be able to share it on this forum.
-
Sure, even US-Americans who describe themselves as "dumb"


That being said, I can't help but notice many Nazi-esque Swiss people throwing around slogans such as "If you don't like Switzerland, why don"t you leave". So long as immigrants maintain their legal status, and pay taxes and abide by Swiss laws, they can live in Switzerland and hate it at the same time.
[/QUOTE]
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I detest people everywhere who refuse any criticizm by pointing to you having the possibilty to leave. But as an American you should be aware of the fact that Americans are leading in this field by a heavy margin


If the Swiss can't take criticism, then perhaps they are too Chauvinistic. In more advanced societies, individuals see themselves as "citizens of the world", which enables them to easily take criticism of their own country, or to criticize their own country without being personally attacked!
[/QUOTE]
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"THE" Swiss ? Really ? Sure, quite many people in Switzerland are far far too chauvinistic. But to talk as if the average of people in "advanced societies" regard themselves as "citizens of the world" is clearly wishful thinking. And at the other hand, Switzerland has lots of individuals who DO regard themselves as "citizens of the world". Possibly more than elsewhere

Obviously, this is not true for many Swissies. Especially the UDC (the xenophobic Swiss People's Party) members!
[/QUOTE]
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Again, this is not true for many people in the world. It however IS true for a good number of SVPlers who are "citizens of the world" and not xenophobic at all. But it unfortunately IS true for others

I would like to present some hard facts here:
"Swiss people voted a new parliament in 2007, giving the right-wing Swiss People's Party a consolidated grip on power.
[/QUOTE]
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What do you mean by "a consolidated grip on power" ?
A) Switzerland has a proportional system which means that a party getting 30% of the votes has 30% of the seats.
B) By the consensus agreement, such a party has the right for two seats in the Coalition of the Union and it HAS 2 seats ! Mrs Widmer-Schlumpf HAS an SVP seat. When she got elected she was member of the SVP


The Swiss People's Party which has the largest number of seats in the Swiss parliament and is a member of the country's coalition government, drew worldwide condemnation with an ad campaign depicting three white sheep kicking a black sheep off a Swiss flag. "
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_...pe#Switzerland
[/QUOTE]
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Sure so, and correctly. What else for a party which regularily copies methods used by the NSDAP in the 1920ies and 30ies ?


Thanks to judengeld and laundering money for the world"s dictatorial regimes and rich bankers, Switzerland went from being the poorest country in Western Europe to being one of the richest. When the world's banking system finally collapses, Swiss will go back to owning 1-2 cows, and scraping the floor for bread crumbs.
[/QUOTE]
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<> Switzerland went up to being a fairly rich country in the 1800s, long before the Judengeld became relevant and even longer before the money laundering
<> Switzerland can survive the collapse of those "banksters" possibly better than many others .... and Switzerland will still depend on the main pillars of its economy , the export industry and the inbound-tourism
<> exports not just are exports of actual merchandise but often also exports of engineering plans, recipes for pharma-products etc
<> you speak about banking, but very important is the insurance-branch

------------------------

btw., are you a banker ?
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