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Old 27.03.2012, 23:29
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Google "it's rude". The 1st phrase that comes up is, "it's rude to stare". Simple as that.

When you stare back at people.who are staring at you in the UK (which isn't often), people seem to get the message and look embarassed. In Switzerland people more often carry on oblivious as if they're in a coma.
And it never came to your mind that politeness in the world does not necessarily follow british standards ? Brits are embarrassed when stared at... fine, I'll remember that next time I am in the UK.
There is no reason why people in Switzerland or anywhere should care about UK habits. If some other humans share this habit with the UK, fine too, you've got friends. But not Swiss. Get over it.
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  #302  
Old 28.03.2012, 00:09
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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And it never came to your mind that politeness in the world does not necessarily follow british standards ? Brits are embarrassed when stared at... fine, I'll remember that next time I am in the UK.
There is no reason why people in Switzerland or anywhere should care about UK habits. If some other humans share this habit with the UK, fine too, you've got friends. But not Swiss. Get over it.
I guess you're right. We are in Switzerland not the UK.
I just asked my German girlfriend if staring is considered rude in Germany. She said it's a bit impolite but not outright 'rude'.

I won't however be taking lessons in manners from you Faltrad - with your conceited signature looking so comical juxtaposed to the English in many of your posts - thank you very much.
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  #303  
Old 28.03.2012, 08:40
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

Why is it that I, having lived here in CH for donkey's years have never noticed that people stare (if they do) or have never noticed that I'm being stared at; I've never noticed that I've been tailgated (any more or less than in other countries); or that the standard of driving is inferior other countries; why have I never noticed that the service here is bad compared to other countries (where in fact I think the service, in general, is worse); why have I never noticed that the Swiss have no humour (although I have spent years here laughing both at home and at work), why have I never noticed that the Swiss are rude although my experience with other nationalities tells me the opposite; why is it that people complain of the prices here although when I go to London I can't get a decent hotel room at a reasonable price, nor a decent meal without working out in my head if I can afford it?

And so on and so forth?
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  #304  
Old 28.03.2012, 09:13
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

I decided a long time ago not to be overly concerned about staring. If it ever escalates to lunging and cuffing though I might change my mind. Below are two examples of the behavioral significance of staring from the animal kingdom.

The Ring-Tailed Lemur
From http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/factshee...ed_lemur/behav
"When ring-tailed lemur groups encounter each other, a frequent occurrence given their highly overlapping home ranges, the females of each group face each other and confrontations can involve intense staring and glaring, or can escalate to lunging, cuffing, and biting. When these confrontations intensify, they can result in serious injuries or even death (Jolly et al. 1993). At the end of intergroup encounters in the area of home range overlap, both groups retreat to the center of their respective home ranges (Jolly et al. 1993)."

The Mountain Goat
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_goat
"...at which time males and females participate in a mating ritual. Mature billies will stare at nannies for long periods, dig rutting pits, and fight each other in showy (though occasionally dangerous) scuffles. Young billies sometimes try to participate, but they are ignored by nannies; nannies will also sometimes pursue inattentive billies"

There was apparently an entire long playing record devoted to the subject of staring back in 1982, although I have yet to hear it
http://www.discogs.com/Glenn-Branca-...release/442281

Whereas I innately feel that staring at strangers is a sign of aggression, that is probably more a product of the environment in which I was raised than anything else.

There is even a theory that staring may just be an indicator of political belief if this is to be believed. According to that website:
"And by look we literally mean look, because eye contact is actually a great indicator of political beliefs...Conservatives are almost never going to follow your gaze, but will continue looking straight at you, like robots. Those conducting the study speculated that conservatives held their gaze because, no lie, they don't like being told what to do."

In other words there can be many different reasons for staring. I have noticed it here (in Germanic Switzerland) more than anywhere else I've travelled but really don't take it personally - it just happens and is normal here and is not (usually) meant in a threatening way but more I guess in a sort of un-filtered curious way. If staring hadn't been drummed into us (who are not from staring cultures) as being rude then I guess we would pay more unimpeded visual attention to our fellow humans.
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  #305  
Old 28.03.2012, 15:46
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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I really don't get what the big deal about staring is.

What defines staring, and why is it bad?

Tom

ok i define staring like this:

i came into a bar, 4 people on one table, 2 guys showing me their back. i sat myself in a corner, diagonal from said table and the 2 guys showing me their back. they turned around and stared, looked towards me for more than 30 seconds and repeated that. i mean: talked to the other guys infront of them which examined myself also by staring -> GLOTZEN!!! dämliches, direktes, auffälliges in mein gesicht glotzen für länger als 3 sekunden. and turned around to me again, staring. i looked up... they did not turn around, kept staring. which normally would lead to the question: do you have a problem? and if they dont look away a glass would smash the staring face in, begby style... is that now clear what staring means to me?

or walked with my GF along the lake close to china wiese...a couple infront of us... first he turned around, poked his girl he was with, both turned around...repeated that until we took them over. they turned around every 10m and it was abnormal. i mean normally i really go my way and i cant care less about anything happening left, right, front or back to me. but it was abnormal...

i mean if i come into a bar, people look up to see who comes in: do i know him/her? or if said person looks good, stands out a bit for whatever reason...its ok if you do that DISCRETE!!!! everything is discrete here, sensible... but at some occasions it is simply rude! its not the norm! and i have never noticed that in any other country so often in such a impertinent manner. i am german, i grew up in berlin, i am used to strange behaviour, rude, harsh, speaking and behaviour, etc, etc. my GF is from hamburg...and i believe its even freakier than berlin and she was very disturbed why this was...

wolli...
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Sorry, but Tschüss as Goodbye started to get into Switzerland in the late 1960ies. Tschau (Ciao) was the Goodbye for Du-ers for ages, but was and is regarded as strange if used as Hallo. "Adieu" is the Goodbye still for Sie-ers. Alternative rather is "Widersää" or "Widerluäge". Whomever says "müüsli" instead of "Müäsli" outs himself as a foreigner
i got told off its a big no-no in the bakery in Goldau where we bought bread and i said "tschüss". so whole switzerland seems slightly wrong, at least that this is a standard phrase and longtime accepted as not duzie and ok. and i never heard it from a swiss 2005-2007/08, read in papers and blogs (see: blogwiese.ch) thats its rude. typical german.

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A) rather abstain from asking people about where they bought some particular textiles, as this is NOT liked
if this is not liked.... i also think its strange. and i simply said "nice trainers" because they were talking about trainers anyway. möööööp.

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but over time acquired a certain ability simply to ignore such things
exactly what i am doing apart from things i really cant ignore. just like staring. i cant leave the friggin restaurant while waiting for my fondue in zurich, btw. yes, more likely a gschnätzeltes. but ignoring cant help the fact that i think, that it is different to any other country i know. and also hear that from many other people too.

if somebody would say: this n that german behavioiur is strange id say yes, maybe. but i wont fight that off when its true as somebody has experienced that. if one would say "berlin people are rude" then yes, its typical, they are rude. approaching an already leaving bus...its your birthday maybe when the bus driver stops and opens the door for you. ok, in zurich its the same. sticking to rules, security policy and time table hardly allow to re-open the doors while the bus is still at the platform. different to....argentina, e.g.


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reaaaallly ? I mean, I am used to this and generally do not care. Simply ignore it or look to a point 50cm to the left of the "starer". But I met such "starers" quite heavily in Paris and in Lyon and in Stuttgart (not yet Switzerland) and in some other places.
i do, but sometimes i cant as them eyes, faces "follow me"!! its weird!
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  #306  
Old 28.03.2012, 21:12
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Google "it's rude". The 1st phrase that comes up is, "it's rude to stare". Simple as that.

When you stare back at people.who are staring at you in the UK (which isn't often), people seem to get the message and look embarassed. In Switzerland people more often carry on oblivious as if they're in a coma.
Most people here are not even aware that it is a problem for some foreigners. People here however look embarrassed if you enter the elevator and do not greet the others. Swiss people also are embarrassed when somebody wants to arrange a family meeting within less than 20 days (my sister in law arranged our 6-April-meeting back in late January)
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  #307  
Old 28.03.2012, 21:48
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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wolli...
i got told off its a big no-no in the bakery in Goldau where we bought bread and i said "tschüss". so whole switzerland seems slightly wrong, at least that this is a standard phrase and longtime accepted as not duzie and ok. and i never heard it from a swiss 2005-2007/08, read in papers and blogs (see: blogwiese.ch) thats its rude. typical german
-
Oh so sorry, Goldau is in the Innerschwiiiz, and no, deep in the Innerschwiiz, Tschüss is not yet in use. But I heard the Tschüss here in Zürich (by Zürcher people) in about 1969, and I can hear it here daily, often combined as "Tschüss zsäme". True, for "Du'ers" the more standard goodbye is TSCHAU (ciao) and the ones for "Sie'ers" are "Adieu" "Widerluäge" "Widersää" "Adie" "Händ än schööne" . The hello for Du'ers is SALI (sali mittenand), for Sie'ers it is Grüezi while in the office in the morning can be "Moorge" (Morge mittenand)

Finally look at this explanation about wine in the Canton of Schwyz
«Sag an, wo ist dein Vaterland?
Ist’s am Rhein- oder Rhonestrand?»
«Verzeiht ihr Welschen und ihr Deutschen,
Ich bin von hier, ein Schwyzer ab der Leutschen.»

... and then you realize that for those Innerschwiizer you still live in Germany among Germans
.



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i do, but sometimes i cant as them eyes, faces "follow me"!! its weird!
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  #308  
Old 28.03.2012, 22:21
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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...deep in the Innerschwiiz, Tschüss is not yet in use...
Huh?

I live and work in the Innerschwiiz, and I hear — and use — Tschüss as often as Tschau on a regular basis (though only with friends, acquaintances, and co-workers — not strangers).

Is Nidwalden simply not "deep" enough?
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Old 28.03.2012, 22:56
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

I learned how to say Tschüss and Ciao in Goldau. I also learned how to say Lömmel and Lappi.
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Old 29.03.2012, 00:42
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Huh?

I live and work in the Innerschwiiz, and I hear — and use — Tschüss as often as Tschau on a regular basis (though only with friends, acquaintances, and co-workers — not strangers).

Is Nidwalden simply not "deep" enough?
In a way the answer is a clear NO. As NW at least in its more important towns is nicely industrialized and so is open to the outside

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I learned how to say Tschüss and Ciao in Goldau. I also learned how to say Lömmel and Lappi.
Well, at least in the "Mittelland" it is "Lümmel". In regard to Goldau you eithere were in contact with more enlightened people than those he met. Or there are some people who at times feel a wave of anti-German emotions And I suppose that nobody told you that Tschüss is something from Germany.
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Old 29.03.2012, 10:49
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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I learned how to say Tschüss and Ciao in Goldau. I also learned how to say Lömmel and Lappi.

ok, and what did you get told how, where, when and to whom you can say it? doesnt matter. i just wanted to point out i became rather defensive, cagey, cautious. still i dont get why it is so hard to turn swiss people into friends. simple as that. i wont say it is impossible, but harder than elsewhere i tried it, harder to get by to what i am used to and that i can feel for anybody else having the same problem, struggling and finally "ending up" on EF events not to go nuts hanging around lonely. not that EF events are bad, but a result of said "problem".
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Old 29.03.2012, 11:12
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

Lümmel is indeed closer to the word than Lömmel. Thanks for pointing that out. Gummel and Anke is also closer to my heart than Butter and Härdöpfel.

As for Tschüss, I didn't even know the word existed until I came to Goldau.

Seriously, you people need to get out into these small towns more. There are some lovely people living there.
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  #313  
Old 30.03.2012, 16:15
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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People here however look embarrassed if you enter the elevator and do not greet the others.
What, really? Never seen anyone greet in an elevator here nor looking embarrassed when others didn't.
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  #314  
Old 31.03.2012, 13:44
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

I think the best thing to do if mooving to Switzerland is to live in on of the "bigger" cities, as there is a more of an international crowd. I think the swiss people are nice once you get to know them (thats the hard part though ).
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  #315  
Old 31.03.2012, 14:15
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Why is it that I, having lived here in CH for donkey's years have never noticed that people stare (if they do) or have never noticed that I'm being stared at; I've never noticed that I've been tailgated (any more or less than in other countries); or that the standard of driving is inferior other countries; why have I never noticed that the service here is bad compared to other countries (where in fact I think the service, in general, is worse); why have I never noticed that the Swiss have no humour (although I have spent years here laughing both at home and at work), why have I never noticed that the Swiss are rude although my experience with other nationalities tells me the opposite; why is it that people complain of the prices here although when I go to London I can't get a decent hotel room at a reasonable price, nor a decent meal without working out in my head if I can afford it?

And so on and so forth?
I do find a couple of driving habits a bit annoying (e.g. bad lane discipline and not indicating on roundabouts) but apart from that I agree with your sentiment.

I've been in Zurich a couple years and have travelled around a fair bit on public transport, but have never noticed this staring thing that a lot of people seem to complain about.

The only country I've noticed excessive staring is India, and I got used to it and presumed it was just curiosity. I also presumed that there was no social stigma about staring, so it wasn't to be considered rude.

In Japan it's bad manners to blow your nose, especially at the dinner table, yet it's OK to sniff interminably instead.

What's the big deal? Different countries have different cultural norms though as I said, I've not even noticed this apparent tendency to stare.

Don't sweat the small stuff!
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Old 31.03.2012, 14:23
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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. i am german, i grew up in berlin, i am used to strange behaviour, rude, harsh, speaking and behaviour, etc, etc. my GF is from hamburg...and i believe its even freakier than berlin and she was very disturbed why this was...
I am from Hamburg and I am not disturbed nor even see the problem in the first place. We're all different. Get over it.
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Old 31.03.2012, 14:38
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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still i dont get why it is so hard to turn swiss people into friends. simple as that. i wont say it is impossible, but harder than elsewhere i tried it, harder to get by to what i am used to and that i can feel for anybody else having the same problem, struggling and finally "ending up" on EF events not to go nuts hanging around lonely. not that EF events are bad, but a result of said "problem".
This made me think of my neighbors, a middle-aged couple with two grown sons. The husband is a very nice chap, always friendly, ready to help, good sense of humor and everything. Now his wife is a different cup of tea. There are times when she talks to us normally, she came round to pay a visit to Alfredo the other day, really nice. And other times she looks as if she deeply despises us, where she hardly utters a "grüezi" after we greeted first. Recently I said to MG's SIL she seems to be a frustated old hag. I wonder why that is, though.
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Old 31.03.2012, 14:39
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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Lümmel is indeed closer to the word than Lömmel. Thanks for pointing that out. Gummel and Anke is also closer to my heart than Butter and Härdöpfel.

As for Tschüss, I didn't even know the word existed until I came to Goldau.

Seriously, you people need to get out into these small towns more. There are some lovely people living there.
Gummel ? I was not even aware of this word up to right now ! And while Anke is the word in the Innerschwiiz and in Bern, in Zürich and Schaffuuse it is Butter

Alright, when Tschüss turned up in Zürich in about 1960, it was regarded as a German import, and was heavily rejected by the war-generation, but in 1970 got accepted. I in regard to small towns in the Innerschwiiz love places like Lachen, Rapperswil, Sursee

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What, really? Never seen anyone greet in an elevator here nor looking embarrassed when others didn't.
Really ! Everybody does. To say Grüäzi when entering the lift is a definite requirement. You possibly look like "sonän Usländer wot sowiso nütme chasch aarichte"
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Old 31.03.2012, 14:45
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Really ! Everybody does. To say Grüäzi when entering the lift is a definite requirement. You possibly look like "sonän Usländer wot sowiso nütme chasch aarichte"
My experience,too. "Grüezi" all the time. Sometimes elderly people even on the bus and the S-Bahn say grüezi. And they always thank the bus driver when getting off the bus and he says "wiederluege mittenand" LOL
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Old 31.03.2012, 15:00
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Re: Are the rumours about swiss people true

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My experience,too. "Grüezi" all the time. Sometimes elderly people even on the bus and the S-Bahn say grüezi. And they always thank the bus driver when getting off the bus and he says "wiederluege mittenand" LOL
It was less so in ZH-Stadt, but amazingly so in Adliswil where the bus-drivers welcome the passengers with a nice "Grüäzi mittenand" and where leaving passengers say "widersee" or "widerluege" and where the driver reacts with either "widerluege" or "än schöne Abed" or "guät Nacht"
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