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  #81  
Old 13.02.2008, 21:40
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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Before. Minus 25% taxes. I have a Ph.D. but they do not care here as far as I do not have a Canadian professional certificate (which Canadians get almost automatically upon getting their Bachelors) and Canadian experience (Russian and Swiss work experience does not count here at all). It will take me 2 years more to get this certificate. After this, I can expect my salary to be 60 K. I do not speak about 2 weeks of vacations... Well, after Russia it is even a lot, but 5 weeks in Switzerland made me really happy...
---

Thanks. So the 'Canadian experience' thing is still alive I guess. I know a couple of people with work experience in Switz and it did not count. That was in 2004 but i guess one really needs a professional certiicate from Canada and professional experience. Do you really think they are not counting the PHD as equivalent or is it something else ?

I wonder if a US degree would count as being equivalent to a Canadian one...
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  #82  
Old 13.02.2008, 21:52
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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... Maybe, it was just a mistake to go to Calgary, but I am thinking to change the city.
As a Canadian, I'd definitely recommend a change of scenery. As you've already learned, Calgary is very overpriced and doesn't have that much to offer within the city. I agree with John1975 that Vancouver and Montreal are much better places to live. Vancouver will probably be similar price-wise to Calgary, and Montreal a bit cheaper, but both cities have way more character, and the terrain around Vancouver will remind you of Switzerland very much. It's not like Calgary where you have to drive for 100km to hit the mountains.

Also have to agree with you on the whole "people are really nice" thing. I visited Canada over Christmas for the first time in a while, and although I'd grown up there, I also had the feeling that people there can be so nice it's hard to believe sometimes.

I wish you all the best wherever you end up,

Heather

PS-I'm guessing by your post that you're an engineer and need a P. Eng certification (although I could be wrong on this point). Unfortunately, there's no way around this, and to answer danny's question, there is no reciprocity between most Canadian and American professional certifications. The university degrees are equivalent, but there is a big difference between having a degree and having a Professional Certification. Most often you have to sit your exams again, or do a certain number of hours of relevant work experience to be certified. Depends on the field and the certificate.

Last edited by HeatherM; 11.03.2008 at 23:58.
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  #83  
Old 13.02.2008, 21:55
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

I suppose if you live in a place long enough, certain things can really get to you... Sometimes all someone might need to be happy is a fresh start some place else. I have not lived in other parts of Canada, so it is unfair for me to paint the entire nation with one brush, but I think I can comment on Toronto as I have spent most of my life here and am really itching to leave.

Then we have the cheapskate heartless employers. You will not be paid what you are worth and you will be given very little vacation time. It took me 10 years at the same company to earn 4 weeks. My wife JUST started a new job in Zürich and was given 5 weeks vacation to start!!!!! Talk about a slap in the face! hahaha.

Another severely overrated thing we have here is the health care system. Everyone raves about it but I do not think it is the most efficient. I suffer from Crohn's disease and getting a specialist can take anywhere from 6 months to 1 year. I once waited OVER 1 year to see a hearing specialist. Sure it is "free" (which is another lie because it comes out of your obscene tax) , but what good is "free" health care once your problem has degenerated for almost another year untreated?!?!?

Bottom line, if you are choosing Canada, go to Montreal, go to Vancouver, just go anywhere BUT Toronto!!!!!!

Sorry for the rant but if I can save ONE person from moving to Toronto it will have been worth it.[/QUOTE]

-----------------------

It might be worth it in terms of saving one person if you can clarify the following:

1. Is it really that long to see a specialist ? I heard that with the new budget, it had become really good. Also now in Ontario they have introduced a health care tax so that should help the system.

2. Taxes are 'ludicrously high'...could be but lower than most of Europe for sure.

3. Cheapskate employers....have heard this a few times but wonder why employers pay the way they do...?

4. The only thing I know for sure is the vacation time of 2 weeks to start as you said..but the US is the same or not ?

Thanks
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  #84  
Old 13.02.2008, 22:04
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

Sorry, Danny, I think, I mixed up some things. They do need here a Canadian professional certificate and Canadian work experience, but just in my case in Russia and in Switzerland I worked for Academia, while in Canada I am getting a job now in industry. Again, in Academia they asked me for a professional certificate in addition to my PhD, but PhD counts for them.
I have a lot of friends in Switzerland who did their Swiss PhDs and went to Swiss industry which gave them high salary and good positions as compared to Master's or Bachlor's. Here in industry they ask for technical college or Bachelor + certificate. PhDs do not count in industry.
A European friend of mine who did his PhD in Switzerland went to Vancouver last year and could get a job only at the entry-level as a simple Bachelor with a salary of 50 K before taxes. Another friend, who is Canadian but did her PhD as well in Switzerland, upon coming back to Canada and even having her professional Canadain certificate, got a job as well as a Bachelor. PhDs here mainly go to Academia, while as far as I realized in Switzerland, this degree is a "passe-partout" for good positions in industry.

And you asked above why for Captain Black it took 6 years for immigration, for sure, he only knows, but from my Russian experience, for Russians in takes much longer than for Europeans, just something with quotas and embassies.
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  #85  
Old 13.02.2008, 22:05
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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As a Canadian, I'd definitely recommend a change of scenery. As you've already learned, Calgary is very overpriced and doesn't have that much to offer within the city. I agree with John1975 that Vancouver and Montreal are much better places to live. Vancouver will probably be similar price-wise to Calgary, and Montreal a bit cheaper, but both cities have way more character, and the terrain around Vancouver will remind you of Switzerland very much. It's not like Calgary where you have to drive for 100km to hit the mountains.

Heather

PS-I'm guessing by your post that you're an engineer and need a P. Eng certification (although I could be wrong on this point). Unfortunately, there's no way around this, and to answer danny's question, there is no reciprocity between most Canadian and American professional certifications. The university degrees are equivalent, but there is a big difference between having a degree and having a Professional Certification certificate. Most often you have to sit your exams again, or do a certain number of hours of relevant work experience to be certified. Depends on the field and the certificate.
-----------------------

1. Vancouver is very expensive and Montreal is tough if you do not know French...I still think Toronto is not that bad..it has most of Canada's jobs !

2. Heather, I see your point regarding the certifications between US and Canada...good to know the degree at least might be equivalent...As for the P Eng., I think one only needs it to practice but not necessarily to work in industry. So the degree equivalency is vital to work in industry.
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  #86  
Old 13.02.2008, 22:12
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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Sorry, Danny, I think, I mixed up some things. They do need here a Canadian professional certificate and Canadian work experience, but just in my case in Russia and in Switzerland I worked for Academia, while in Canada I am getting a job now in industry. Again, in Academia they asked me for a professional certificate in addition to my PhD, but PhD counts for them.
I have a lot of friends in Switzerland who did their Swiss PhDs and went to Swiss industry which gave them high salary and good positions as compared to Master's or Bachlor's. Here in industry they ask for technical college or Bachelor + certificate. PhDs do not count in industry.
A European friend of mine who did his PhD in Switzerland went to Vancouver last year and could get a job only at the entry-level as a simple Bachelor with a salary of 50 K before taxes. Another friend, who is Canadian but did her PhD as well in Switzerland, upon coming back to Canada and even having her professional Canadain certificate, got a job as well as a Bachelor. PhDs here mainly go to Academia, while as far as I realized in Switzerland, this degree is a "passe-partout" for good positions in industry.

And you asked above why for Captain Black it took 6 years for immigration, for sure, he only knows, but from my Russian experience, for Russians in takes much longer than for Europeans, just something with quotas and embassies.
---------------------------

I see your point East West about the value of PHD in Switz (good position in industry, often the base needed to enter) and Canada (bachelor + certificate valued, certificate takes time to get).

Just one thing....I thought you only needed the certificate to practice (as in engineering consulting) but a bachelor's would be enough to work in industry (as opposed to practice)...but your message clearly points out the value of a degree + CERTIFICATION even for industry.
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  #87  
Old 13.02.2008, 22:13
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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I wish you all the best wherever you end up,
Heather
PS-I'm guessing by your post that you're an engineer and need a P. Eng certification (although I could be wrong on this point).
Chere Heather, thanks a lot for your support! I really appreciate it!
Yeah, you are right, I need an engineering certificate. I do not give up at all. If I could make here after all the horros of my Russian life, I am sure I will get finally what I want and what I need.
And now I am really thinking about Vancouver or Victoria...
Pity, I did not meet you before in Lausanne... My name is Natalia, by the way, nice to meet you!!!
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Old 13.02.2008, 22:22
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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---------------------------

Just one thing....I thought you only needed the certificate to practice (as in engineering consulting) but a bachelor's would be enough to work in industry (as opposed to practice)...but your message clearly points out the value of a degree + CERTIFICATION even for industry.
Indeed, there are engineering positions in industry where they do not ask for the certificate, this is the one which I am getting now with such a low salary at a no-name company. ALL good companies require the certificate.
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Old 13.02.2008, 22:22
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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WOW,
there are a lot of good comments about the idea of moving.
One thing I did not notice was, the fact that Vancouver has actually a minority of REAL CANADIANS, mostly Asians now, with poor English skills.
Another huge point is health care is not as good as it is here, but it depends on the city of course.
Canada is very easy for foreigners to feel at home, but of course poverty and theft can be higher than in Switzerland.
In the west, be prepared for rain, old people, and not so "Canadian" lifestyle.
-----------

what is the definition of a 'real Canadian' ?
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  #90  
Old 13.02.2008, 22:24
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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Indeed, there are engineering positions in industry where they do not ask for the certificate, this is the one which I am getting now with such a low salary at a no-name company. ALL good companies require the certificate.
------------------------------

Thanks for clarifying...
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  #91  
Old 13.02.2008, 23:15
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

I'm a Canadian who moved to Switzerland about half a year ago, and lived in Toronto for three years before that. Toronto is a great city if you're single, lots of restuarants, bars, and nice people. The transportation is only horrible if you live out in the suburbs, if you live in the central part of the city it is comparable to CH. Salaries are comparable, of course that will vary by field experience etc. Rent was actually cheaper in TO, and a heck of a lot easier to come by, also stores are much more accessible, open on Sunday and in evenings. Although TO is very multi-cultural, there is really no comparison to Europe were you are an hour's flight from a dozen different countries, if you enjoy that then Europe is where you would have to stay. The only thing I would say that is really bad about TO compared to CH is the number of homeless people there. You need to develop fairly thick skin in Toronto, I've only been asked for money a handful of times here, whereas I was most days in Toronto, it was the one thing I could never really accept or get used to there.

I read most of this thread a while ago, and am only remembering bits and pieces of what else was discussed. Regarding schooling, I don't really see what's wrong with North American schools, if you're a dedicated student there is much to learn, if you're not then it's probably easier to slide by in Canadian schools. And English is really the only language that counts in North America, a totally different concept from here, which ties into the multi-culturalism.

One thing I haven't gotten used to in CH is the lack of different colours, everyone I work with is white, and almost everyone else I see is white, although I haven't really noticed Swiss racism, if I were black or Asian I would feel much more welcome in Toronto than here.
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  #92  
Old 13.02.2008, 23:35
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

Yes Danny it really can take that long to see a specialist in the GTA. It is terrible and this is based on the better part of over 15 experiences throughout my lifetime with various types of specialists, not one or two freak ones. The worst case experience I have had was a 15 month wait!!! I haven't even mentioned the disaster that is the GTA's overcrowded hospitals. My last trip to the emergency room (as I mentioned I suffer from Crohn's disease) I had showed up at the hospital at approximatley midnight and did not get treated until 7 am. I ended up staying on a bed in the hallway and did not get admitted into a room for 2 1/2 days. (yes almost 3 days in a hallway!!)

There are also massive waits for tests such as MRIs. (Some Torontonians travel to Buffalo, USA to get them done at a private clinic because the wait is so long) There is a severe shortage of doctors, hospital beds, facilities & nurses in Ontario since the Harris government many years ago demolished healthcare by slashing its budget. It has never since recovered and I predict never will.
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Old 13.02.2008, 23:42
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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Yes Danny it really can take that long to see a specialist in the GTA. It is terrible and this is based on the better part of over 15 experiences throughout my lifetime with various types of specialists, not one or two freak ones. The worst case experience I have had was a 15 month wait!!! I haven't even mentioned the disaster that is the GTA's overcrowded hospitals. My last trip to the emergency room (as I mentioned I suffer from Crohn's disease) I had showed up at the hospital at approximatley midnight and did not get treated until 7 am. I ended up staying on a bed in the hallway and did not get admitted into a room for 2 1/2 days. (yes almost 3 days in a hallway!!)

There are also massive waits for tests such as MRIs. (Some Torontonians travel to Buffalo, USA to get them done at a private clinic because the wait is so long) There is a severe shortage of doctors, hospital beds, facilities & nurses in Ontario since the Harris government many years ago demolished healthcare by slashing its budget. It has never since recovered and I predict never will.
----------

Thanks for the answer. A bit hard to believe but I will as you have had more than just one experience. I thought the new government had put a huge healthcare budget in place in 2006 but obviously i need to do more research before i can verify that. Tough place to be for specialist healthcare needs.

Technically one could fly in to the US and pay out of pocket but with the kind of crap they have at the US border these days, I am not sure if one would be allowed in.
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Old 28.05.2008, 04:12
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

In Canada there is a large unemployment rate, Vancouver is certainly beautiful but there are hundreds of homeless. Food banks and shelters have to turn people away. The air quality here is quite poor and if you think you will get away from it by moving to the quiet east coast think again. All the pollution from the west blows into the charming maritime provinces. Highest rate of cancer in the country. Crime rates are very high all over the country due to the high rate of drug use, I am sure this occurs all over the world but it seems to be exceptionally bad here. If you are into the baby boomer me me me me you will fit in here. Everyone is obsessed with the biggest and best, the entire population is bombarded with tv commercials, every 5 minutes. I am born and raised in Canada and have always loved it and thought we were normal until I found out about the European way. Here we are considered the fattest continent. Canada and US have seriously obese children and adults due to the fact everyone drives 3 minutes to the store to grab beer and pizza. A huge % of Canadians eat only processed food and fast food as it is convenient. There are areas where people seem to be more on the ball but the smog and pollution is unreal, hard to find places to let your kids swim now. I know Switzerland is expensive and has its faults but there is more to it than having to pay more for a higher standard of living. You get what you pay for is the old saying. Yes, there are jobs here but IT people who have spends thousands to get their diplomas are working at the local retail computer store for $10 per hour. Taxes in the country are on average about 12%, that is sales taxes, income tax...well that is a different story. If you hit $100,000 you can kiss half of your salary goodbye. I am just getting concerned with the direction this country is headed, when you go to the local department store it is alarming how many overweight people are milling about looking dazed and have their mouths hanging open. There is alot of fluoridation in foods, water and toothpaste here and I think that has alot to do with the declining IQ's in this country
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Old 28.05.2008, 07:29
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

^Tinfoil hat?
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Old 28.05.2008, 08:11
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

so what do you mean by that?
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Old 28.05.2008, 08:19
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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There is alot of fluoridation in foods, water and toothpaste here and I think that has alot to do with the declining IQ's in this country
I'm surprised you asked.
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Old 28.05.2008, 08:57
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

Do you have the msds sheets containing the information on fluoride? Do you know the history of fluoride? Do you know where it comes from and what industry benefits from the disposal of this chemical? There is a reason why many cities have had fluoride in the water and after 30 years have discontinued it. Do your home work before you start spouting conspiracy theory junk. I didn't want to get in to a debate on this, just stating a fact.
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Old 28.05.2008, 16:51
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

Sounds like more of an opinion than a fact, but maybe that's just me.
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Old 28.05.2008, 17:58
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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In Canada there is a large unemployment rate, Vancouver is certainly beautiful but there are hundreds of homeless. Food banks and shelters have to turn people away. The air quality here is quite poor and if you think you will get away from it by moving to the quiet east coast think again. All the pollution from the west blows into the charming maritime provinces. Highest rate of cancer in the country. Crime rates are very high all over the country due to the high rate of drug use, I am sure this occurs all over the world but it seems to be exceptionally bad here. If you are into the baby boomer me me me me you will fit in here. Everyone is obsessed with the biggest and best, the entire population is bombarded with tv commercials, every 5 minutes. I am born and raised in Canada and have always loved it and thought we were normal until I found out about the European way. Here we are considered the fattest continent. Canada and US have seriously obese children and adults due to the fact everyone drives 3 minutes to the store to grab beer and pizza. A huge % of Canadians eat only processed food and fast food as it is convenient. There are areas where people seem to be more on the ball but the smog and pollution is unreal, hard to find places to let your kids swim now. I know Switzerland is expensive and has its faults but there is more to it than having to pay more for a higher standard of living. You get what you pay for is the old saying. Yes, there are jobs here but IT people who have spends thousands to get their diplomas are working at the local retail computer store for $10 per hour. Taxes in the country are on average about 12%, that is sales taxes, income tax...well that is a different story. If you hit $100,000 you can kiss half of your salary goodbye. I am just getting concerned with the direction this country is headed, when you go to the local department store it is alarming how many overweight people are milling about looking dazed and have their mouths hanging open. There is alot of fluoridation in foods, water and toothpaste here and I think that has alot to do with the declining IQ's in this country
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Do you have the msds sheets containing the information on fluoride? Do you know the history of fluoride? Do you know where it comes from and what industry benefits from the disposal of this chemical? There is a reason why many cities have had fluoride in the water and after 30 years have discontinued it. Do your home work before you start spouting conspiracy theory junk.
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. I didn't want to get in to a debate on this, just stating a fact.
Uh, yeah, right.

One thing you may find about Europe in general and EF in particular is that we encourage debate. Especially when someone gets up on their soapbox to preach at us whilst wearing a tin hat.
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