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  #141  
Old 22.09.2010, 14:34
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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Before you consider buying a home in Vancouver do your research. Here is a good start to show you what your options are

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Make sure that both yours and your wife's credentials are accepted by the province you choose to settle in. I know many a Canadian who shakes their head at the thought of doctors driving taxi's but the reality is that there is no political will to change the system and over qualified immigrants are left to do just that, wash floors and drive taxi's. It's a real shame and the major reason we came to Switzerland as my husband is one of those over qualified immigrants. Here he can work with no problems.
Things have changed in the past few years. The scenario you described does exist but not as much as it used to. Credentials are more recognized now and Vancouver is way too expensive so new immigrants really feel the pinch there.
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  #142  
Old 22.09.2010, 18:03
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

Yes some things are changing slowly...but very very slowly.

Some provincial governments are trying to speed up the recognition of professional qualifications for foreigners but it's not just the governments that are at play here. There are also the professional bodies that control the certification/licensing process such as the various provincial College of Physicians and Surgeons. It's no wonder Canada has a doctors shortage. Unless they come from a commonwealth country there isn't a hope in hell that they will ever work in Canada. Of course if they want to redo all their medical exams again they might, just might give that fully qualified doctor one of the very few annual residency spots available for foreign doctors.

I know far too many immigrants that are not working in their chosen professions and had to do some cheaply tailored certification programs to at least get something. Everyone in Canada is now a called a "specialist" but there is not much meat behind it educationally speaking.

It is very important for anyone who thinks about moving there to verify what credentials will be recognized and don't just take the governments word for it. Canada has many great things to offer new immigrants but finding an employer who doesn't look for "Canadian Experience" is tough.
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  #143  
Old 23.09.2010, 10:54
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

semi relavent joke:

At the end of the tax year, Revenue Canada office sent an inspector to audit the books of a local hospital. While the auditor was checking the books he turned to the CFO of the hospital and said, "I notice you buy a lot of bandages. What do you do with the end of the roll when there's too little left to be of any use?"
"Good question," noted the CFO. "We save them up and send them back to the bandage company, and every now and then they send us a free box of bandages."
"Oh," replied the auditor, somewhat disappointed that his unusual question had a practical answer. But on he went, in his obnoxious way.
"What about all these plaster purchases? What do you do with what's left over after setting a cast on a patient?"
"Ah, yes," replied the CFO, realizing that the inspector was trying to trap him with an unanswerable question. "We save it and send it back to the manufacturer, and every now and then they send us a free package of plaster."
"I see," replied the auditor, thinking hard about how he could fluster the know-it-all CFO. "Well," he went on, "What do you do with all the leftover foreskins from the circumcisions you perform?"
"Here, too, we do not waste," answered the CFO. "What we do is save all the little foreskins and send them to Revenue Canada , and about once a year they send us a complete dick."
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  #144  
Old 23.09.2010, 11:19
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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--- language is English
Don't know what the French Canadians are like, but I've been to a good many other French speaking places on this planet and the moment you tell them you live in CH they assume you must mean the French part of CH and they aren't really aware of the rest at all. They also universally seem to believe that the French part of CH is some sort of paradise. Many French-Belgians I spoke to envied the Swiss because they perceive Switzerland as a multi-lingual mulit-cultural country that works in contrast to Belgium which they perceive as an absolute failure in terms of multi-lingualism and multi-culturalism. I don't know how French-Canadians are in that respect.
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  #145  
Old 23.09.2010, 11:23
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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My choice would definitely be - Canada.
First off:no language barrier.
Then:different (better) life style. People seem more open to other nationalities, things are more laid back and you get to actually enjoy life while working and earning more and having more options as well.
I love it there too...used to live there for 2 years and I still visit about once or twice a year. I'm looking into moving there permanently though.
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  #146  
Old 23.09.2010, 11:29
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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Don't know what the French Canadians are like, but I've been to a good many other French speaking places on this planet and the moment you tell them you live in CH they assume you must mean the French part of CH and they aren't really aware of the rest at all. They also universally seem to believe that the French part of CH is some sort of paradise. Many French-Belgians I spoke to envied the Swiss because they perceive Switzerland as a multi-lingual mulit-cultural country that works in contrast to Belgium which they perceive as an absolute failure in terms of multi-lingualism and multi-culturalism. I don't know how French-Canadians are in that respect.
It goes both ways with french canadians---obviously not as far slip as the belgian--but there is a seperation referendum everyso often. The French seperatist party is very powerful (relatively) and they have made many steps towards 'their own nation'.
As you travel deeper into quebec, you will find many people who refuse to speak english at all. But attitudes are split (no pun intended).

I am happy for the country staying together as Quebec is still the best source for professional hockey goalies. (and drinking alcohol under 19)
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  #147  
Old 23.09.2010, 19:54
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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I love it there too...used to live there for 2 years and I still visit about once or twice a year. I'm looking into moving there permanently though.
God help CANADA!
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  #148  
Old 27.09.2010, 14:59
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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Yes some things are changing slowly...but very very slowly.

Some provincial governments are trying to speed up the recognition of professional qualifications for foreigners but it's not just the governments that are at play here. There are also the professional bodies that control the certification/licensing process such as the various provincial College of Physicians and Surgeons. It's no wonder Canada has a doctors shortage. Unless they come from a commonwealth country there isn't a hope in hell that they will ever work in Canada. Of course if they want to redo all their medical exams again they might, just might give that fully qualified doctor one of the very few annual residency spots available for foreign doctors.

I know far too many immigrants that are not working in their chosen professions and had to do some cheaply tailored certification programs to at least get something. Everyone in Canada is now a called a "specialist" but there is not much meat behind it educationally speaking.

It is very important for anyone who thinks about moving there to verify what credentials will be recognized and don't just take the governments word for it. Canada has many great things to offer new immigrants but finding an employer who doesn't look for "Canadian Experience" is tough.
You picked the most difficult occupation but that's ok. You need to fight hard to get Canadian experience. Few countries welcome doctors with qualifications from other countries.
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  #149  
Old 27.09.2010, 15:07
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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God help CANADA!
...I will disregard your comment Mr. Cannut.
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  #150  
Old 27.09.2010, 15:28
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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Hello!

After 6 years of waiting, we've finally got our Canadian immigrant visas, went to Victoria B.C. and Vancouver and got our PR permits.

Here, in Switzerland, I have an unlimited contract - work for an international (big) company. We (family) all have 1-year "B" permits, automatically renewed every year by my employeer.

There is a dilemma for us now - to go or not to go to Canada? Both countries are looks good to us, both have some pluses and minuses. Switzerland and Canada are always compared in terms of "quality of life" by different magazines, newspapers, UN ratings, etc... I would like to hear some "live "opinion" regarding this dilemma - please feel free to share your opinion.

So, why to go to Canada from Switzerland?

Thanks in advance - I will appreciate any input!

Regards,
CapitanBlack
Actually this not a good comparison at all. Apples vs oranges. This is really an expat location so comparing it to a place like Canada (built for newcomers) is not really right.

Perhaps comparing to Dubai, Singapore, HongKong would be more like a real comparison of expat locations.

So why go to Canada from Switzerland ?

To move out of an expat territory back into normal zone.
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  #151  
Old 27.09.2010, 20:16
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

Yes it is true, I did pick a difficult profession as an example but I do personally know a few doctors who could not work there. One became an ND (Persian) while another (Polish) became a mortgage broker. Another I know is is from Germany, a western G8 country with a very high quality of education and practicing standards for their doctors. He could not get into the foreign residency there so he returned to Germany. I don't know about you but I've been in a German hospital as a patient and I'd take a German doctor over a Canadian any day.

On the other side I also know many other highly skilled immigrants who came to Canada on the promise of the Canadian government for a better life, all they had to do was get enough points to qualify for immigration. Many are engineers, architects, accountants & lawyers. They all scored higher on the education requirement than most born Canadians would (including myself). Personally I've hired an Architect from Argentina to work as my house cleaner while she studied and looked for the "Canadian experience". I know many of their stories very well and yes you are so right, they do need to fight hard to get the "Canadian experience".

Back to the OP question... Canada or Switzerland? Both countries have their pros and cons. If you go to Canada it's best to go well prepared for your employment opportunities.

Being new to Switzerland I'm highly in favor of staying here for the long haul but I do really miss the larger living spaces and the privacy that comes with that.

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You picked the most difficult occupation but that's ok. You need to fight hard to get Canadian experience. Few countries welcome doctors with qualifications from other countries.
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  #152  
Old 27.09.2010, 22:00
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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Back to the OP question... Canada or Switzerland? Both countries have their pros and cons. If you go to Canada it's best to go well prepared for your employment opportunities.

Being new to Switzerland I'm highly in favor of staying here for the long haul but I do really miss the larger living spaces and the privacy that comes with that.
HAng around here in CH for a few years and you will know more what you want and the life around here. Perhaps CH is for you.
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  #153  
Old 28.09.2010, 09:48
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

Thank you, I know quite well what I want from life and Switzerland. Overall I'm quite happy here so far. As everyone does I'm still going through some cultural adjustments but that was to be expected.

Another consideration for the OP is to compare the the cost of living. Generally speaking one would think the cost of living is less expensive in Canada but on a whole I find it quite similar to Switzerland especially since Vancouver is more expensive than the rest of Canada. Others here have posted about the higher taxes too so when you take that into consideration, depending on the tax bracket of your world wide income, being a permanent Canadian resident can be quite expensive.

On the other hand there are many economic immigrants who simply leave returning to their homelands to become "non-resident" to avoid paying the higher taxes once they get their Canadian passports. The repatriation of many Lebanese/Canadians by the Canadian government a couple of years back comes to mind. Not a bad return on a 5 year investment IMHO.
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  #154  
Old 28.09.2010, 14:35
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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Thank you, I know quite well what I want from life and Switzerland. Overall I'm quite happy here so far. As everyone does I'm still going through some cultural adjustments but that was to be expected.

Another consideration for the OP is to compare the the cost of living. Generally speaking one would think the cost of living is less expensive in Canada but on a whole I find it quite similar to Switzerland especially since Vancouver is more expensive than the rest of Canada. Others here have posted about the higher taxes too so when you take that into consideration, depending on the tax bracket of your world wide income, being a permanent Canadian resident can be quite expensive.

On the other hand there are many economic immigrants who simply leave returning to their homelands to become "non-resident" to avoid paying the higher taxes once they get their Canadian passports. The repatriation of many Lebanese/Canadians by the Canadian government a couple of years back comes to mind. Not a bad return on a 5 year investment IMHO.
Well done, I didnt mean to say you didnt know what you wanted, but that you are not in a meaningful position to compare until you have been here for a while.

Have to disagree with the cost of living factor though. Going out etc is way more affordable in the cities of Canada. The point about going back to the homeland is not very valid either as many have actually come into Canada to get the quality of life. And its not as if taxes are 0 in the homeland either. And its not as if taxes is everything in life either.
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  #155  
Old 28.09.2010, 14:46
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

East is cheaper, yes, but Vancouver is comparable, and for many things actually more expensive than Zürich - Especially when you take the dying industries, generally low wages and high taxes into account.

Also, many have pointed out a low crime rate... Vancouver was listed as the most violent city in north america last year - but that was before the mexican mess really came up.



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Thank you, I know quite well what I want from life and Switzerland. Overall I'm quite happy here so far. As everyone does I'm still going through some
Well done, I didnt mean to say you didnt know what you wanted, but that you are not in a meaningful position to compare until you have been here for a while.

Have to disagree with the cost of living factor though. Going out etc is way more affordable in the cities of Canada. The point about going back to the homeland is not very valid either as many have actually come into Canada to get the quality of life. And its not as if taxes are 0 in the homeland either. And its not as if taxes is everything in life either.

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  #156  
Old 28.09.2010, 15:11
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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East is cheaper, yes, but Vancouver is comparable, and for many things actually more expensive than Zürich - Especially when you take the dying industries, generally low wages and high taxes into account.
Also, many have pointed out a low crime rate... Vancouver was listed as the most violent city in north america last year - but that was before the mexican mess really came up.

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The cost of living comparison, if extended to cities, then yes Vancouver is way too high. But in most other cities, the cost in CH is about 2.0 times Canada when you take into account the hidden costs here.

And again, the comparison is not just a numbers game, even though that may be an important part of it.

But very good point made about Vancouver (cost, image etc) though so well done there.
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  #157  
Old 28.09.2010, 17:22
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

Hi Cap.

I am a Canadian from Toronto, Canada (queue the booing now
I lived there most of my life, but the last 3 years I have lived in Switzerland so I hope I can help.

Canada does have beautiful nature. (Mountains to the west and Harbors to the east). You can truly get away from people when you go camping or hiking. You will experience all 4 seasons, though the summers are very hot and the winters very cold (except the west coast). The people are very open-minded because our country is so young and made up of immigrants we are quick to adopt new cultures. Our pace of life is slower, yes even in Toronto although for tourists this does not seem the case. Canadians are friendly people at first, but may not become good friends where Swiss are often colder at first, but once befriended they often are very close friends. Canada is not cheap however, as real estate is sought after in both Toronto and Vancouver and it is difficult to buy unless you have enough saved. The transportation in major cities is quite good, but if you live away from those you will surely need a car.

Switzerland is beautiful with regards to nature as well, but harder to enjoy this nature alone given its size. Everything seems well structured and the most jobs pay better in Switzerland then in Canada. The cost of health insurance is quite expensive (vs free in Canada) but the quality is very good. Again real estate is not cheap, but when you have the money possible. Renting is much tougher in Zurich then in the rest of the CH. Swiss can be more closed minded towards new people and change, but once they are comfortable with you, are very welcoming. It is very difficult to get a Swiss passport and this is a constant reminder that the Swiss are harder in their adoption of auslanders. The transportation (rail) all over Switzerland is top notch, but if you live in mountain villages again a car is a must, as some buses will make their last routes at 7pm. A British man who has been living here for 17 years told me the other day, 'anything that is not a rule in Switzerland, is obligatory!' I find some truth to that.

Anyways, if you have more questions feel free to shoot them over.
I imagine I will live in the CH for a couple more years, but Canada will always be my home (I will always be considered an outsider here passport or not)!!
Which one is better??? Thats tough to say.
All depends on what you value I suppose.
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  #158  
Old 28.09.2010, 17:41
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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On the other hand there are many economic immigrants who simply leave returning to their homelands to become "non-resident" to avoid paying the higher taxes once they get their Canadian passports. The repatriation of many Lebanese/Canadians by the Canadian government a couple of years back comes to mind. Not a bad return on a 5 year investment IMHO.
Nice hyprocritical piece of BS as you are telling people that CH is preferable for EXPATS due to the lower taxes. So some people are allowed to be mobile but others aren't????

So if those Lebanese Canadians had moved to CH after gaining citizenship, it would it have been okay???
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  #159  
Old 28.09.2010, 17:47
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

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East is cheaper, yes, but Vancouver is comparable, and for many things actually more expensive than Zürich - Especially when you take the dying industries, generally low wages and high taxes into account.

Also, many have pointed out a low crime rate... Vancouver was listed as the most violent city in north america last year - but that was before the mexican mess really came up.
Salaries are lower in Vancouver than in Zurich, yes. Not true for the whole of Switzerland. Taxes are higher in Vancouver than in Zurich, yes, but not true for places like Geneva, Basel.

As for more expensive, yes Canada is the most expensive place in Canada for housing. But in Zurich, you can double the price of what a similar place would cost in Vancouver. For rent, Vancouver is 20% cheaper. My condo in Vancouver in trendy street with view of mountains, city rents for the same as my very average, old place here.

Eating out: Zurich is at minimum THREE times as expensive as Vancouver.

Groceries: Vancouver is much cheaper for meat and fish, and marginally cheaper for veggies.

Clothing, electronics: Vancouver MUCH cheaper.

So I would have to disagree.

As for jobs, yes it is difficult to find one in Vancouver; it does not have a diversified industry. Good industries are tourism, digital media and video games, mining.

As for 'Canadian experience', this should not be confused with the very bad issue of Canadian qualification that people in the medical profession suffer from sadly. When considering candidates, companies are looking for people who fit in. It's not always the lack of Canadian experience that is the problem. I worked in the high-tech field so it was never an issue as in this industry, we look for qualifications and skill set. But in other industries, it can be an issue. As mentioned above, there are too many PhDs and Medical Doctors doing jobs not worthy of their credentials. It is a very frustrating issue.

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Old 28.09.2010, 17:51
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Re: Canada vs. Switzerland

With respect to xenophobia, there are traces found in Canada--but only for the sake of beer and a good laugh

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