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  #41  
Old 24.11.2016, 11:26
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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(Things aren't helped by the second piece we're singing, another Te Deum, by Richter, a German baroque composer, in Latin, which also has Cherubims and Seraphims.)
[pedant hat]
Point of order -- 'cherubim' and 'seraphim' are already plural forms (of cherub and seraph, respectively); the words 'cherubims' and 'seraphims' don't exist.
[/pedant hat]

Now please carry on....
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  #42  
Old 24.11.2016, 11:28
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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cherubim - At least they didn't want to pronounce it "tche - rub - em".

Think "-i" in "alumni". Do you think Romans talked like that? Hairier is the pronunciation of "Cicero".


American speakers learn an anglicized form of Latin, and defend it to death. Once I got into a heated argument with a lawyer friend over correct Latin pronunciation - me bringing evidence from other romantic languages, him saying this is how it's pronounced in the US. Can't fault his logic, can I.
Well, yeah, you can fault it -- I certainly would have. Not a lot of Latin was ever spoken in North America, if I recall my ancient history correctly.
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Old 24.11.2016, 11:30
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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Savoury is also würzig"
Really? I have never used or heard würzig used in that context. I thought würzig meant something a bit spicy.
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  #44  
Old 24.11.2016, 11:51
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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Really? I have never used or heard würzig used in that context. I thought würzig meant something a bit spicy.
I would have said spicy, or tasty. But something that is würzig can't be sweet, so in a way, it's a surrogate for savoury.
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  #45  
Old 24.11.2016, 12:56
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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I would have said spicy, or tasty. But something that is würzig can't be sweet, so in a way, it's a surrogate for savoury.
I've heard wines described as würzig. I always interpreted it to be that kind of deep herby, aromatic or full bodied.

Kind of the same kick you get with cinnamon.
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  #46  
Old 24.11.2016, 13:55
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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[pedant hat]
Point of order -- 'cherubim' and 'seraphim' are already plural forms (of cherub and seraph, respectively); the words 'cherubims' and 'seraphims' don't exist.
[/pedant hat]

Now please carry on....
Context, dear boy! Catandmouse was referring to multiple instances of the words "cherubim" and "seraphim", not actual cherubim and seraphim. In this case it is perfectly acceptable to say that there are "cherubims" and "seraphims" in a text.
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  #47  
Old 24.11.2016, 14:39
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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In my Swiss choir, we are 4 English (fortunately no Americans as that would have confused things even more) and are currently singing the Handel Te Deum. Came along a long discussion on the pronounciation of "Cherubim".
We all four made it quite clear that the initial "Ch" was not pronounced "K", as some of the remaining 60 members of the choir wanted to do.
Things got trickier around the "u" with variations amongst the 4 of us between "oo" and "euh". Sorry, I'm no good at phonetics, but I hope you get the gist of it.
So even 4 native British-English speakers, presumably each of us with different backgrounds in singing and Latin, couldn't reach agreement. What do you expect the poor Swiss to do?
Considering Cherubim is Hebrew, it is a Chuchichästli Ch.
As Italian (see video bellow) is close to Latin then the Che has the sound as in Chiasso or Porchetta, a soft k.

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  #48  
Old 24.11.2016, 15:55
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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Context, dear boy! Catandmouse was referring to multiple instances of the words "cherubim" and "seraphim", not actual cherubim and seraphim. In this case it is perfectly acceptable to say that there are "cherubims" and "seraphims" in a text.
Plausible... and neatly retrofittable to catandmouse's post.
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Old 24.11.2016, 16:01
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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Considering Cherubim is Hebrew, it is a Chuchichästli Ch.
As Italian (see video bellow) is close to Latin then the Che has the sound as in Chiasso or Porchetta, a soft k.

Someone will probably point out the gap in my knowledge, but I don't think there are any words with the "ch" combination in Latin. So regardless of whether they exist in Italian, and of how "ch" is pronounced in successor languages, there's no way to pronounce it in Latin.
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Old 24.11.2016, 16:24
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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Someone will probably point out the gap in my knowledge, but I don't think there are any words with the "ch" combination in Latin. So regardless of whether they exist in Italian, and of how "ch" is pronounced in successor languages, there's no way to pronounce it in Latin.
Non scholæ sed vitæ discimus.

By the way, Seneca the Younger actually wrote it the other way 'round.

Besides that, there are lots of other Greek words containing "ch" in Latin (scholé actually is Greek too and means leisure time (!!!)). But since literate Romans were meant to be fluent in Greek, of course they would never have pronounced it the modern English way.
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  #51  
Old 24.11.2016, 16:28
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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Someone will probably point out the gap in my knowledge, but I don't think there are any words with the "ch" combination in Latin. So regardless of whether they exist in Italian, and of how "ch" is pronounced in successor languages, there's no way to pronounce it in Latin.
Well, there's something called dictionary. Have a look at it and tell us whether there's a ch digraph or not
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  #52  
Old 24.11.2016, 19:53
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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Hmm, thanks so much ...

I'm currently in Mexico, and it's so difficult for the Mexicans to pronounce Wayne that I almost decided to call myself Pablo (my middle name is Paul), just to save everyone from the hassle of trying to get their tongues around Wayne (there is no Spanish equivalent for Wayne).

Is there a close of approximation of Wayne in German?
Me Raymond went over two years in Mexico being called "Ramon" I didn´t mind as I was also considered a Chillango autentico.
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  #53  
Old 24.11.2016, 23:34
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Thank you man , i never noticed that before ! i made now test to my Swiss partner and damn for the first time i realized she is saying W instead of V in the english words !
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Old 25.11.2016, 08:46
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

the OP should be in language corner admin
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Old 25.11.2016, 11:06
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

It is true that Italian is probably the language closest to Latin, but it is doubtful that modern Italian is pronounced the way it was pronounced 400 years ago and is probably even more remote from Latin. And if you doubt, just think what's happened to "Olde English" in that time and particularly what our North American friends have done to the language.
I apologize sincerely to the OP whose thread has been totally hijacked
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Old 25.11.2016, 11:51
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

Just as a side note, for those who are interested in languages, amongst many, sprachbund and koineization are interesting concepts to investigate.
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Old 25.11.2016, 13:35
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

My family name is Lewell - in English pronounced Loo-Ell, but whenever speaking in German I always pronounce LEVEL, as it helps them get the spelling right. My American bosses find it hilarious.....
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  #58  
Old 25.11.2016, 13:51
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

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My family name is Lewell - in English pronounced Loo-Ell, but whenever speaking in German I always pronounce LEVEL, as it helps them get the spelling right. My American bosses find it hilarious.....
Hubby does similar.
There is a soft g in the middle of our surname, and he always pronounces it with a hard g for the same reason.
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Old 25.11.2016, 15:30
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

I lived for 3 years in Germany and discovered that Germans have a psychological block. It is impossible for Germans to write an "S" followed by an "H" without putting a "C" in between. I used to systematically spell my name "S, H ohne C ....". and it would still end up getting misspelt half the time (and then mispronounced when by chance it got spelt correctly).
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Old 25.11.2016, 15:44
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Re: Swiss pronunciation of English

The one thing I'd like to know, is how do you pronunce surnames with double consonants at the beginning.

Such as Llewellyn or Fforde for example.

Or Audrey fforbes-Hamilton from to the Manor Born , is the first or second consonant silent or does it get pronounced, and if so, how?

These are details that do not come across well via lipreading......
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