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  #41  
Old 09.08.2009, 13:15
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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The fact that you don't feel integrated here, and therefore feel unhappy, is not the problem. The problem is that you blame the Swiss for your unhappiness, rather than taking responsibility for your own situation.

The problem is the fact that you seem to blame all of your unhappiness on the locals, when it seems that the problem is entirely your own.

I do not hear people who moved from UK to Italy or South of France to have the same complaints as I do here. French and Italians are very friendly and happy go lucky by reputation.

I speak German and French.

I find the weather here in the winter depressing.

I guess maybe my problem is that I do not take the responsibility for choosing the place that makes me happy to live in. There is nothing tining me to Zurich. I can just as easily go and live in a place with sun in the winter like some of the Swiss French ski resports if the winter weather bothers me here or Tessain if I prefer the mediterrean weather.

I do want to go out to a resturant and have a good service so why shuld I be putting up with sad unfriendly faces in resturants here (except for the top international resutartnts in center of Zurich)
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  #42  
Old 09.08.2009, 13:24
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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I do not hear people who moved from UK to Italy or South of France to have the same complaints as I do here.
That's because this is the Englishforum.ch. No doubt the Englishforum.fr and the Englishforum.it (were they to exist) would also be full of complaints about the locals. It's the expat condition, and the same all over the world.

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French and Italians are very friendly and happy go lucky by reputation.
So you're basing all of this on stereotypes, if I understand correctly?

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I speak German and French.
You've learnt German very quickly: For this you deserve credit.

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I find the weather here in the winter depressing.
Is it likely to be much better 100 miles to the west?

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I guess maybe my problem is that I do not take the responsibility for choosing the place that makes me happy to live in. There is nothing tining me to Zurich. I can just as easily go and live in a place with sun in the winter like some of the Swiss French ski resports if the winter weather bothers me here or Tessain if I prefer the mediterrean weather.
Hit the nail right on the head!

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I do want to go out to a resturant and have a good service so why shuld I be putting up with sad unfriendly faces in resturants here (except for the top international resutartnts in center of Zurich)
Again, I wouldn't argue that all restaurants have friendly service around here, but, on the other hand, I certainly wouldn't say that they all have unfriendly service, either. Half the time it depends on which waiter you get: Those members who frequent the bar near the station at Pfaffikon SZ will, no doubt, know exactly what I mean, for example...

If you are unhappy, then please feel free to move: Nobody is forcing you to stay in Zurich.

But you really should think about whether you will be any happier in the new place, and whether all the effort and expense are worth it.
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  #43  
Old 09.08.2009, 13:47
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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Is it likely to be much better 100 miles to the west?.
Regarding weather it is different is you go up in altitiude, e.g. mountains as there is lots of sun in the winter as no fog.

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But you really should think about whether you will be any happier in the new place, and whether all the effort and expense are worth it.
The fact is that I speak fluent French and have very close ties to the French culture as opposed to the German culture which I find very cold, so the French part may be easier to live in for cultural reasons.
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  #44  
Old 09.08.2009, 13:55
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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Regarding weather it is different is you go up in altitiude, e.g. mountains as there is lots of sun in the winter as no fog.
The German speaking part of Switzerland has mountains too.



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The fact is that I speak fluent French and have very close ties to the French culture as opposed to the German culture which I find very cold, so the French part may be easier to live in for cultural reasons.
That is not an unreasonable consideration.

However, don't you think that France itself would be a safer bet, rather than the bit of Switzerland where people speak French?
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  #45  
Old 09.08.2009, 14:38
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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For example when one goes to a restaurants (not talking about very international top restaurants in the centre of Zurich), the staff does not really make you feel welcome. I often see people look sad around me when I look around on a tram or train. Maybe we are too sensitive.... I did not feel like this in London for example

By the way I do speak German

This is interesting. I avoid the international restaurants because I find them cold and lacking atmosphere. Central Zurich is a no go zone for me when it comes to eating out, and I eat out at least 2x a week (bad I know .. should stop that..) I try to go as local as possible and 9/10 times get much better food and service.

As for people on the tram or train, what do you expect. I was in London 2 weeks ago and its the exact same ! People use tranist to get from A to B, and dont want to interact. It would just be weird to get on the tram and see people sitting alone smiling and laughing- I would be inclined to think they were nuts.

When you were living at home, surrounded by your friends, family, your own culture, how often did you reach out to foreigners who were new in town. Probably not that often.... !
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  #46  
Old 09.08.2009, 14:47
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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Did Mr DB mention "sparklingly witty " people from the Bernese Oberland, or was I hallucinating

Now, as much as I like them, I wouldn't go that far.........
Do not take DB's comments too literally ! Whenever he speaks about the Congo he is not working as a teacher in Kinshasa or Brazzaville really but in a Canton he loves soooo deeply While among the more boring people on earth are some people here in Zurich who regard themselves as champions of humour and wisdom
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  #47  
Old 09.08.2009, 14:51
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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When you were living at home, surrounded by your friends, family, your own culture, how often did you reach out to foreigners who were new in town. Probably not that often.... !
That is a very pertinent question, and one that we should all ask ourselves when we're feeling particularly unwelcome and unintegrated.
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  #48  
Old 09.08.2009, 14:56
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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When you were living at home, surrounded by your friends, family, your own culture, how often did you reach out to foreigners who were new in town. Probably not that often.... !
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That is a very pertinent question, and one that we should all ask ourselves when we're feeling particularly unwelcome and unintegrated.
This sort of thread does provide an insight into how many immigrant families must feel in the UK. It is very easy to judge when you are on the other side of the fence.
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  #49  
Old 09.08.2009, 14:57
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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This sort of thread does provide an insight into how many immigrant families must feel in the UK. It is very easy to judge when you are on the other side of the fence.
This is worth a thread of its own.
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  #50  
Old 09.08.2009, 15:23
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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because lifestyle is better and it is easier to "integrate".
beside the point that I like the French lifestyle, it is to be made clear that lifestyle always is a matter of taste. A far more important aspect however is the fact that the Swiss (northern) side of the Lac Léman (Lake of Geneva) indeed is one of the nicest areas to be found. Many people from Zurich if asked where they would like most to go to if they had to leave Zurich, the number one clearly is Geneva, followed by London and Paris

easier to integrate ? the Romands have a great practice to keep German- English- and Arabic-speakers happy, and happy in the belief to be accepted while they will abstain from "integrating" them too swiftly. And are far more demanding in regard to your ability to speak and understand their language.
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  #51  
Old 09.08.2009, 15:33
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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Compare it if you lie with the UK the Welsh,the Irish, Scottland and Egland. Who is less British?


True, but note that England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales are actually separate countries.
Yes in case of the Republic of Ireland, but clearly no in regard to England, Scotland and Wales which as the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" are simply ONE country only.



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From the posts here, it looks to me like we are an exception in terms of not feeling integrated here in the Zurich area and that most of the English speaking expats really like it here and have no issues with the Swiss German culture... We find it cold and not very inviting. For example when one goes to a restaurants (not talking about very international top restaurants in the centre of Zurich), the staff does not really make you feel welcome. I often see people look sad around me when I look around on a tram or train. Maybe we are too sensitive.... I did not feel like this in London for example

By the way I do speak German
Most English speaking expats really like it here simply because they accept things as they are. And why not having "issues" with the German Swiss culture, --- most German Swiss do have issues with that "culture" also.

You then talk about the restaurants. Without wanting to support the xenophobles or the Blocherites, I suggest you look at the nationality of the restaurant personnel. It is Balkanese "culture" you complain about. Look around on a tram or train ? I generally do not find looking around on a tram or train a hilarious thing They do not look around YOU but simply around themselves.

London ? I love London. Was there for 3 months in 1972 and then again and again on holidays. The only thing I did not like too much that it was a bit too close to Zurich mentality-wise. If you do feel differently in London than in Zurich it may be because it is a different city and a wee-wee bit larger
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  #52  
Old 09.08.2009, 15:35
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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Yes in case of the Republic of Ireland, but clearly no in regard to England, Scotland and Wales which as the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" are simply ONE country only.
Oooh... you don't want to go down this road, old chap...
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  #53  
Old 09.08.2009, 15:57
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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I do not hear people who moved from UK to Italy or South of France to have the same complaints as I do here. French and Italians are very friendly and happy go lucky by reputation.

I speak German and French.

I find the weather here in the winter depressing.

I guess maybe my problem is that I do not take the responsibility for choosing the place that makes me happy to live in. There is nothing tining me to Zurich. I can just as easily go and live in a place with sun in the winter like some of the Swiss French ski resports if the winter weather bothers me here or Tessain if I prefer the mediterrean weather.

I do want to go out to a resturant and have a good service so why shuld I be putting up with sad unfriendly faces in resturants here (except for the top international resutartnts in center of Zurich)
You speak German and French ? Is that an argument ? Speaking in German in Zurich like a Hamburger or Basler is not exactly something heavily in demand

the weather ? Most people here find the weather depressing. Just study the programs of the next travel agent !

Ski resorts ? Tessin/Ticino ? Most people on here prefer the Meditteranean weather ! If you find a good job in any ski-resort, up-up-up-and-away ! But be aware that some 85% of Swiss people live in areas below 800 meters above sea-level and that has its reasons ! More than 10% of the population of Ticino live and work in Zurich. Do you really belove they do so because they love to be in Zurich ? Or because they found their Canton suddenly horrible ? Sure, if you find a job as salesperson in a news-shop (kiosk) in Lugano, why not ..... but please bear in mind that the Ticino has quite many rainy days to offer. And also the ski-resorts have many many days with exceedingly bad weather. And you possibly are not used to get your way from your door to the road free of snow in the morning, to find the way to the nearest town blocked for some hours. You possibly do not see the hard work done by people of holiday hotels in the ski-resorts to keep matters up. As a private person in such a "resort" you do not have a troop of helpers at hand but are expected to persevere yourself

When you go to a restaurant it is entirely your choice. If you feel the personnel of a particular restaurant not to be friendly, try the next one. There are many restaurants around with friendly personnel and good service. All depends on your choice.


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Oooh... you don't want to go down this road, old chap...
I am fully aware of the points that some/many/most Scots might love to get independent, and that some/many/most Englishmen could do wel without them but for the time being it simply is one country only
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  #54  
Old 09.08.2009, 16:07
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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Yes in case of the Republic of Ireland, but clearly no in regard to England, Scotland and Wales which as the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" are simply ONE country only.
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Oooh... you don't want to go down this road, old chap...
The United Kingdom is a constitutional monarchy and unitary state consisting of four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

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The Countries of the UK
The top-level division of administrative geography in the UK is the 4 countries - England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. As well as the national government at Westminster, there are also devolved administrations in Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/geography/uk_countries.asp

[/discussion]
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  #55  
Old 09.08.2009, 16:52
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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The United Kingdom is a constitutional monarchy and unitary state consisting of four countries: England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.


http://www.statistics.gov.uk/geography/uk_countries.asp

[/discussion]
The U.K. is in the E.U. and in the U.N. and also otherwise simply as ONE country. And "devolved administrations" is what 26 Cantons in Switzerland have as well. And with possibly even more competences that the Cantons of Scotland and Wales ! to me Wales is just like St. Gallen and Scotland like Graubünden
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  #56  
Old 09.08.2009, 17:29
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

Hi dear Flowers
hmm, so you find the Swissgerman People boring? Believe me, and so am I.
It depens on the attitude every one has, and there are many possibilities to remedy the problem. Or is this real a problem? Maby you are also boring sometimes.

Sorry for that unestly. I am a Swisswomen and speaking swissgerman dialect and can somehow imagine what do you mean.I appreciate your faith in Switzerland and the people, otherwise you wouldn`t be here, isn`t it? Thank you for your trust. By the way, we need all of you more, than we / you think.


Hey, I am a Tourist in my own country and sometimesa patriot. Yesterday I went to Interlaken to watch the amacing play Willhelm Tell!! This conviction, on that my land is build on, helps me also to go forward. Great!
LG Bouquet

PS: Yoli
good speech!!
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  #57  
Old 10.08.2009, 01:23
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

One of my Swiss German friends moved to Lausanne to experience that great French "joie de vivre". He was quite disappointed. He thought that it was much more social and fun back home.
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Old 10.08.2009, 01:56
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

Salü ch-expat

This is really interesting to read and good to know. Thank you.


Wish you a good time and all the best in life.

LG von Bouquet
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Old 10.08.2009, 08:26
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

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This is really interesting to read and good to know. Thank you.
Well its hardly surprising to read that a swiss german has more in common with his own culture than swiss french culture is it?
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Old 10.08.2009, 09:47
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Re: What do you think of Swiss Germans?

I'm quite partial to the odd Swiss German.
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