Hi all,

I've been lurking here for quite some time but finally registered to post.

I'm a 28-year old American woman, transgender, with a tentative job offer for a P3 position at a UN agency in Geneva. I’m generally well-accepted as a woman here in the San Francisco Bay Area. I'm wondering:

· How comfortable/knowledgeable are the Swiss with transgender people? Am I likely to integrate well (or as well as an American woman typically might)?
· My partner is finishing her degree but would want to join me in May next year. We've lived together for 2 1/2 years. What's the likelihood of being able to sponsor a non-working residence permit for her? (We are unable to marry in California due to the same sex marriage ban.)

Thanks for your help! I greatly appreciate it!

-me

Should we page Sada and Brightonite?

Hi Skigirl,

I would think (without any first hand experience) without being too cruel, it really depends how much you stand out.

Zurich has its fair share of alternative lifestyles and they are very well tolerated. Depending on my above point, you could expect a fair amount of staring in public places, but i really don't think it would escalate to any more than that. It is certainly highly unlikely to escalate into anything physical as it may do in other countries/cities.

I'm not sure you'd be quite as accepted as in San Fran, but I would assume you would be able to live a fairly unhassled, undisturbed life over here.

Hope this helps.

@brettstirling: Thanks. I usually "pass" pretty well (though not 100% of the time) and get a fair amount of positive attention here.

As far as standing out is concerned, people in Switzerland stare more than in other countries/ cities and it's something you get use to once living here. I'm not sure what it is like in Geneva but Zürich folk stare quite a bit. You'll find threads in complaints where Forum folks have found the staring really annoying.

So, as long as you are aware of this and are prepared, you should be fine.

Welcome to the Forum skigirl

If you couldn't audition for the part of the Dame http://www.semi-circle.ch/basel-panto , then you'll be fine.

Hi Skigirl,

I live in Zurich and work regularly at the UN in Geneva. The UN community is something of a sub-culture in itself and has a very broad spectrum of cultures and personalities. I don't see that you should experience any particular problems as there is such a variety of people and lifestyles for those with a penchant for staring to get their fix.

In Zurich same-sex "marriage" has been legal for some time.

Come-on over girl and give it a whirl.

"Passing" will probably be a big part of it - but just as much, I think, is how comfortable you are in your own skin. It sounds like you're highly comfortable, so I doubt you'll have any serious issues.

Come and be yourself.

I'm not adding anything new ... just reinforcing what everyone else has said, you should find Geneva pretty relaxed (I used to work there, it's a fine place to be!). Because of the large expat/multicultural population there, it's a fairly broad-minded place. I think you're more likely to get unwelcome attention (either for being transgender, or for having a same-sex partner) from conservative expats than from the more numerous local Swiss, who as a rule tend to keep their thoughts to themselves.

What a contrast from the recent "Goth post" (it's not worth linking you to that) -- it's all in the approach. You'll do great here in Switzerland!

With regard to your partner, can you legally get married in some other state, or another country? I would think that could be helpful. Or maybe even in Zurich, as ZuriKT intimated. But don't get married just to get a permit! Sorry, I don't know enough about this subject.

__________________
Search is your friend -- click here to learn how to search EF effectively!

Skigirl, if you don't mind me asking, what is your ethnicity?

The reason I ask is because I know of a Thai transgender who works in a local Thai restaurant. Now, any person somewhat familiar with Thai people can quickly pick up that she was once a man. Her adam's apple was a pretty good indicator.

But yet, there are all these Swiss men who are fawning over her. I'm pretty sure they don't realize she was once a man. I think they just aren't familiar with the gender features of Thai people.

(I hope nobody stones me for this)

thanks for the welcome, all!

I'm comfortable traveling throughout the U.S., including the conservative parts, so I think I'd be fine.

@22 yards: we could probably legally get married elsewhere. There are states in the U.S. that don't recognize a change of gender, so we'd be considered an opposite-sex couple in them. Plus there are a few states (like Iowa) where we'd be legal. But you're right, we shouldn't get married just for the permit, and I'm really not ready to get married yet, though who knows how I'll feel by next year.

@phos: I'm not Thai, though I've met some wonderful people of transgender experience who are. I'm white (mixed european with a German name). And I wouldn't assume the men aren't aware of her previously assigned gender. Often that knowledge makes men (of various orientations) much more interested.

Canton Geneva allows same sex couples and heterosexual couples not wishing to marry to register as civil partners. These couples receive many of the same benefits as married couples.

A good read includes:

http://geneva.angloinfo.com/countrie...rland/pacs.asp

Also contact the Office Cantonal de la Population (Canton Geneva's immigration services) with the specifics to your situation! Email: etrangers.ocp@etat.ge.ch

Best,

B

@Berenjenas: Thanks, that's very helpful! We can register as domestic partners in California, and it seems that would be recognized in Switzerland. Any idea if that's valid for immigration purposes? (both U.S. citizens, one with U.N. B permit) I'll probably email that address you provided if my offer is finalized.

thanks!

Judging from your great attitude, you'll do just fine here.
Just wanted to stress again the staring thing - it's quite unsettling initially so please don't think, when you come here, that people are staring at you for any other reason than that they stare at everyone - they also don't break eye contact when you stare back! Whilst for some cultures that might seem aggressive, it's normal here.

Good luck with the job offer and potential move!

thanks all for the responses!

one more question...

Would either the residence permit or 1/2 fare card function effectively as day-to-day (non-traveling) informal ID? Does either one specify gender?

thanks!

Neither specify gender (at least I cant see it on my permit). Am not sure if the half fare card will work as ID, as it doesnt have an address on there (but I've never tried it so maybe it would).

The permit does function as ID, in fact I'm pretty sure if you have a permit you're supposed to always have it on you.

Only the residence permit, which by law you must carry in any case (even inside CH). Does it state gender ... um, not sure, I don't think so ... my permit is in my car, downstairs, through three locked doors ... I'll get back to you if someone else doesn't.

Search this forum re. carrying the permit, by the way -- you'll find some interesting info. Being American, I believe you would get the new credit card-style permit which makes it a lot easier to carry.

EDIT: Beaten by seconds by Buttercupbananatush! Anyway, I can confirm that you do need to carry your permit at all times. Theoretically.

__________________
Search is your friend -- click here to learn how to search EF effectively!

I don't carry my permit anywhere! I keep a photocopy in my purse as a sort of vague evidence that could be backed up by producing the real one, but a lot of the time (taking the kids to school, etc) I don't even have that with me.

Do you have a link, please, stating that it's the law to carry it? I'm very law-abiding so like to follow the rules for a simple life, but I've never come across this.

Thanks a lot

kodokan

As there is no obligation of possessing a passport or an ID card, there is also theoretically no obligation to carry it in general.

I have never seen a law stating you have to carry it, just general guidance.

Haven't found the article of law either, but a reliable source - Ktipp

There is no "Ausweispflicht" (obligation to carry identification), BUT police have to right to stop and detain you until such a point that your identity can be confirmed.

You don't have to carry it, but it makes life so much easier in case you need it...

Edit: Also found the EF article through google here