You call it a strawman based on "What you've been told"? You find a new one.

I'm not against no smoking pubs, there are non smoking pubs here in Luzern, and they didn't need laws passed for them to open and be popular.

No, I call it a strawman because it is a strawman. None of the things you listed have any effects as immediate as smoke. It's not even comparable. I edited the post since. Didn't you just write this: So which is it?

Smoking ban is in place in London and from what I know, there's much better social atmosphere outside the clubs, INCLUDING non-smokers, in the smoking areas, then inside!

Based on the fact that my sitting in a pub drinking 1-7 pints never affects anyone else's sitting there.

Okay, I may get loud, but usually the bartender tells me to pipe down and I comply.

The smoking affects my clothes, my health, my enjoyment of food, my eyes, my throat.

So please, try again.

I didn't say I got to them.

You can pontificate all you like about health effects, you can go to a non smoking pub, period. What gives you the right to stop me going to a smoking one?

the same common sense that say you can't drive when you are drunk... you may kill other people - is not only your health, is everybody else's too

Your car fumes (carbon mono oxide) is even worse then the cigerette smoke for my health, so Please Stop Driving!!

This discussion is about the point of view of the owner of the establishment, and you just proved my point. So you mean to tell me those people paid the cover charge, bought drinks, are taking their smoking outside, and giving free advertising for what the athmosphere inside the club is likely to be? Sounds like an owners dream.

That's a terrible comparison, you don't have to go in the smokers pub, it's a better argument against the wholesale banning of alcohol, which will probably be next on the list.

Tell that to the owners of pubs who couldn't provide a nice oustide smoking area.

None. They just won't exist in Zurich next year. 500 years ago and up till 10 years ago in France, you could pee in the middle of a tavern. But eventually as a society we decided this wan't desirable or healthy. Ditto for smoking. You are allowed to pee and smoke in the privacy of your own home though. Society evolves. This is just the latest.

Why do you need to go to the pub to drink? Sit around at home and drink with your buddies. Like those of us smokers and non-smokers who find smoke-dense pubs too much. Ah, we're even on the continent, where you are even allowed to do it outside and in parks.

No one is stopping you, you can have your own "smoking pub" at home. When you're in an enclosed public area, you're just going to have to be considerate for the health of others.

Yes, that the atmosphere is anything but Party! Owners of the establishments are regretting it as people dont go to clubs as much.

2 new trends... Hired limos with friends where you can gossip, drink and smoke while driving around and House parties where you do what you want to do.

No sooner there will be an underground clubbing scene for Smokers, me thinks!!

I don't put my face next to your exaust!

Why do you? you sit outside if it's too much, you stay at home, stop whingeing.

You are being unreasonable here.. if there are Smoking pubs and it says so on the door and you enter at your own freewill and risk and consequences (if you think there actually are)... Whats wrong with it?

Are you trying to "suggest" something here

But I do breathe the air while walking as you drive pass in your car!

I do sympathize with smokers as where do you go to have a smoke now.. there's room for everyone in this world is there not? I would have told anyone who told me to give-up when I smoked a pack a day to feck-off, you give up the cancer sticks when you're ready to and it's an individual's choice is it not? A few of us teachers use to smoke in a broom cupboard in a non-smoking UK school - rather disgusting, but many a laugh was had in that cupboard.

I'm not anti-smokers or anti smoking but anti-eejits with no common sense. Don't come and sit beside me and my kids (baby has bronchitis) while we're waiting for a train and light up when there are plenty of other benches free - this happened earlier this week

In most provinces in Canada (beyond local cities that had already initiated a ban), the ban is controlled under the order of the worker's compensation board for the sake of worker's health. Basically, people should be able to choose a job as a server without worrying about their health.

Most smokers are actually happier since the ban, since it helped them smoke less. Of course Canada is different from CH, as we had before the bans a much smaller % of the population smoking. But if we look south to Italy, no one complains. It means more families and a wider distribution of the populace can hang out at restaurants and bars. More social in the end. And yeah, in all places, a new culture of hanging outside the bar (smokers and non-smokers) has grown. Culture changes, we adapt, ...

Pubs all over the UK and Ireland have closed down following the smoking ban. People prefer to smoke and drink at home, and the non-smoking crowd in most rural areas isn't enough to keep the pub open - the pub needs to welcome all clients.