That post about pedestrian crossings got me thinking about the behaviour of cyclists in Zuerich:

They seem to think that the laws of the road don't apply to them and happily speed through red lights and across crossings, even as people are walking. The other day I saw a young woman almost knock over an old guy who was crossing at a traffic light. He had right of way (green walk light against red traffic light) but SHE took offense when she nearly hit him!

For a generally law abiding country, cyclists really do seem to be quite reckless. And YES I do cycle myself but I take care when I'm on the road (usually off road though).

Cheers,

Gav

I know exactly what you mean. Many a time I've nearly run over a cyclist because he's ignored his red light and has just come screaming in front of my car! The irritating thing is that should I have hit one by accident, I would have been in BIG trouble!

I heard that somewhere in Germany, police were on bicycle patrol. Not only were they on bikes themselves but they basically spent their day chasing cyclists not adherring to the rules of the road! I think that Zurich should introduce that!

Hi Gav,

You've hit a nerve here. This is also one of my pet hates. Before I start I just wanted to repeat something I read years ago in that classic publication - Viz. It went something like this: "Car owners, enjoy the same sense of freedom as cyclists - cut off the roof of your car, put half a watermelon on top of your head and drive the wrong way up one way streets".

But i do ask myself this question - why am I always getting fined for driving 1km/h too fast, but I hardly ever see a cyclist stop for a red light? No doubt cyclists say that they check before any traffic is coming first (yeah - right!), but then if this is ok, why can't I do the same in my car? If there is no traffic in the opposite direction I could just drive through the red light? I doubt it somehow.

The main problem here is that if you are a car owner and you say something about cyclists it's somehow "politically incorrect" and you'll get attacked as some sort of gas-guzzling destroyer of the environment.

I try to respect cyclists as much as I do other drivers, but what should I do when there's a cycle lane marked on the road, and cyclists are riding double file - one in the cycle lane, the other in the road. I know they have a "right" to the road - but did they pay for it? I don't think so. I pay plenty of taxes in my petrol price and yearly road tax, what do they pay?

And like Lynn said - if I hit one that rides in front of my car will THEY be held liable? - nope. It's almost happened on more than one occassion to me!

What are the other things that irk me? Riding bikes through pedestrian areas, or riding across pedestrian crossing. My personal rule is if they dismount I consider them pedestrians and I will stop - otherwise I will not stop!

I'd love to hear from cyclists who can tell me why this kind of behaviour is acceptable...

Mark

Oops forgot to mention a little story from today. I was walking down a little side road attached to a parking area. Well it's actually more like a parking area. I had a scuba tank on my shoulder which was rather heavy, so I wasn't able to turn my head. I heard the noise of an approaching car behind me to the left, so I took a few steps to the right, to allow it to pass since I was walking in the road. The next thing I cyclist passes on the right, and the woman starts swearing at me as she cycles past me. I was so dumbfounded that I couldn't think of a suitable response before she was out of earshot. Such rudeness is so unnecessary.

Mark

Some motorists here delibratley try to take you down, Us cyclists have it hard here in ZH !

My wife got fined 600 CHF, for knocking a cyclist off his bike, we think.

It happened last december in the evening. She was pulling into our road which crosses a cycle path. The cyclist did not have any lights or reflectors so she did not see him straight away. She managed to stop when she saw him, an inch away from him, and he lost his balance with the expected impact and fell over.

He got up and she moved her car further down the road as she was in the way of other traffic and she went back to check on him. He indicated he was fine and was about to ride off when the police pulled up out of know where. One interviewed the cyclist and the other my wife, they had seen the whole thing apparently.

He was put out at first, because my wifes german was not good, although his english was fluent. He said that she should not have moved the car from where the event had happened, and that she should have looked more carefully even though it was at night and there was no lights in that area. Two weeks later we got the fine for this.

It seems stupid to me. But thats life in Switzerland. I am afraid I got a slight satisfaction from seeing the cyclist fall off his bike. I am a cyclist myself but being from England, you learn to watch out for other traffic and realise that you are not invincible.

Compo, I would think about contesting that. Your wife did not actually touch the cyclist, and surely riding around at night with no lights is illegal?

You might find that writing a letter of protest and outlining your case might cause them to decide not to fine you. Do you have any legal insurance that might cover this case?

Cyclists do not need lights here, Yes they do, I checked and as soon as the street lights come on the cyclist must have lights.... I misunderstood the German If you cross a cycle path and cause injury to a cyclist, even without contact, well expect a heavy fine.

It seems that your wife didnt observe the rights of way, either through lack of observation, knowledge of swiss road laws or speed. The Polizei were pretty fare in this case, according to Swiss Law. Your wife was fined for her driving and luckily the guy didnt press charges as it could have come out worse for her. In the UK this would have been different, but thats another story.

All the road rules apply to a cyclist as they do cars, except in the case of marked cycle ways.

Dont want to sound like a noob, but Im married to a member of the Stadt Polizei Zuri so I get the whole heads up on life in zurich

Pointless mark, you'd be better asking for a personal invite to the queens yearly Ann Summers Party at buck house.

Within the walls are another set of walls that is closely guarded by an even bigger set of walls.

So what you are saying is that a cyclist could ride a black bike, with no reflectors, at night, when there is no moon. He could then wear a special black suit, and cloak himself in some sort of invisibility device, then pop up at the wrong moment, get scared by my car, fall over and I'd get fined? Oh did I forget the part about him not wearing a helmet and getting away with that as well?

Now what if I decided that as the driver of a car I could not wear my seatbelt and drive around at night without my lights on? Let me guess - I'd get a fine as well

Not having a go at you - just sounds like the law is a complete and utter ass!

Personally I'd love to see the police booking cyclists who run red lights - how often have you actually seen a cyclist *stop* at a red light?

Its too late to appeal and its not worth it for 600 chf, we have had friends fined for 2000 chf , for crossing solid white lines in the middle of the night an empty motorway. So we realised it could be worse.

The cyclist wasnt injured, he was just a bit shocked, he just wanted to get on with his journey. Its the police who wanted to push it further.

The police were more bothered about my wife not staying where the incident happened, and moving down the road. She knew that rule, but we didnt think the incident was important enough to block a major road. But the motorists over here is not allowed to assess a situation for himself the police have to get involved.

Sneaky you have to admit the law is crap. Cyclist need to have rules. Were we live the bus stops and people walk out onto the same cycle lane. My daughter got off the bus a few weeks ago and a cyclist nearly went into her, he hadnt kept clear of the bus as any normal person would, instead he gave her abuse for getting in his way, she was only 5.

Mark are you into the kinky stuff?, my heart beat was increasing reading your words about Black suits and a moonless sky, oh hang on a minute I gotcha, just head down to Wedikon and watch the orthodox jews cycling around, they seem to fit the description above except the invisibilty device.

I have adjusted my post above, mark, Crombo, you may have a case!!!! I totally misunderstood the Law about lights, (APOLOGIES FOR BEING A BIGNOSE)

It is the Law and it is stricktly enforced .... on cyclists with heavy fines who disobey road law. Should be interesting to outrun a Meat Wagon during rush hour.

Hmmm, cyclists here are generally really bolshy. I've rarely seen any cyclist observe traffic lights or give right of way at a pedestrian crossing.

From my experience of nearly being hit once at a ped crossing and having a cyclist jump a red light and come out in front of me at a junction, even when they do something stupid they generally give abuse at the person they nearly hit.

I also see people cycling all the time without lights in the hours of darkness.

Maybe the cops are pulling over loads of them for such infractions but I've never seen it happen and it they are it certainly doesn't seem to be a deterrent.


Gav

cyclists seem also to forget that they can "disappear" into blind spots that drivers have - and when said cyclist is being scraped off the floor and carted off in an ambulance, it's a bit late to say "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You".

also can we categorise scooter riders in this thread please? They seem to have an air of invincibility about them.


For example, the numpty who rode along in front of me at about 20kph and then suddenly turned across my path.

I gave his top-box a solid push and nearly had him off (oops ).
So he stopped and looked at me. I stopped too.
"Blinker?" said I.
"Es lauft nicht!" was his retort...
"Genau, Arschloch!"
He did look a tad upset but upon reflection, decided not to have a pop. Frankly, I would have just picked up my old munter bike and chucked it at him

Hi Fellow Road Users

Just thought I would throw the cyclists amongst the car drivers as it were. I am a cyclist and do not own a car. I do not live in Zurich, but in Baden (AG = aargau or Achtung Gefahr ie look out I can't drive).

I understand that when us cyclists misbehave it annoys the drivers. I can not say I have not done any of the things you mentioned in the above posts. I do not excuse our behaviour, but at the same time I think you need to consider if you have ever done anything wrong as a driver ? Probably. Unless you are an angel in disguise ;>

- ever forgotten to indicate when you turn (in our Kanton at least this is a hobby, and in fact I think indicators are optional extras in cars).
- maybe wanted to get around the annoying cyclist, and oh, suddenly needed to turn that corner in front of them ? making them brake suddenly.
- ran that orange light just to get home quicker, (I find the time delay in lights near my place means I nearly get hit by cars on a regular basis, by going when my light is green)
- buses pass me regularly with about 3 cm gap. my girlfriend has a few times come off her bike due to this

The list is endless. So do we all do things wrong, yes. Do drivers, of course. Do scooter riders - of course. Do pedestrians cross when the light is red !! never. Is the Pope catholic:>

There are some things about cyclists behaviour that is of course not only wrong but stupid, but most probably the price will be paid with injury one day. Riding without lights or a helmet - their life is in their hands.

So on behalf of cyclists - sorry for the inconvenience. But remember, accidents cause our death, and only a scratch to your car :>

there are no answers - we all do stupid things.

Aye, be careful on the way over our bonnet, and try not to bleed too much

Ashley - the point is when we as car drivers break the rules we get nailed for it. Cyclists seem to operate with impunity and seem to have very little respect for the road rules at all! If I go too fast or run red lights I'll lose my licence. If a cyclist misbehaves can they stop him riding his bike (assuming he ever gets pulled over).

As for failing to wear helmets and using lights - ask anyone who works in accident and emergency about the head injuries they have to deal with (especially from kids). It's easy to think that this is "their problem", but actually it's not. These kind of unnecessary accidents cost society dearly both in emotional terms and in financial terms. We all pay the price through escalating health care costs. So actually the risks taken by (quite) a few end up being everybody's problem. Which is why we are supposed to have laws about things, which don't get enforced.

Ditto for scooter drivers - how often have you seen scooter drivers wearing a full face helmet and proper gloves and shoes? Do they think that if they come off their bike that only the top of their head will be hit and scraped along the ground? Again, terrible for the many people involved in such horrific accidents, but we all have to pay for it.

I do however have respect for experienced motorbike riders that protect themselves and their passenger with a full set of leathers. They know exactly what the risks are and are doing their best to protect themselves. I'll always make room for riders. But cyclists who don't have a clue about the road rules or safety don't get any tolerance from me out there.

I have a nice little footnote to this post. The other day I was near the Rathaus in Zurich. The entire area is a construction zone and there are signs everywhere that cyclists should dismount. After all - everyone knows that it is illegal to cycle on a footpath or in a pedestrian area - you must dismount and walk the bike (same for pedestrian crossings). So since the law is clear and there were signs everywhere do you think most cyclists had dismounted - no way! There were a few who had but the majority ignored the signs and found that there were cops everywhere booking them - priceless!

Sorry Ashley - you might be a good, rule abiding cyclists who never runs red lights, but you are most certainly in the minority!

I got booked riding my bike through Stauffacher; saw the fuzz on one side, took emergency manoeuvres only ........ to get the other cops in my face.

30 francs fine.

There's something about those strappy girls in work clothes buzzing along at 50 in traffic with unfastened open-face helmets; or at least they're cute whilst their skin's their own

Was that on your motorbike or pushbike? I would've expect a higher fine if you were motorised.

Another one is the moped/scooter teenies who ride with full face helmets only half fitted, eyes below the chin bar. You see it in Italy as well. I have only one guess as to the reason, they dont want to mess up their gelled spike hair or faux-hawk

BTW did they stop making mopeds in 1973 or something? Seems odd to see such new and regulated cars on the same roads as those old, noisy, stinking 2-stroke POS!