Ordinary people with special powers -Swiss healers - Page 7

Ouchboy · #**121** 17.01.2011, 16:08

	Quote:	Bertrand - Geneva
	I already hear people shouting (I could write shooting...), but every of those stuff have their explanation inside the last developments of quantum mechanic. You're free to open fire

How does this work?

Tom1234 · #**122** 17.01.2011, 16:08

	Quote:	miniMia
	Pharma companies already sell things that 'may' work.

Of course they do.

But they probably wouldn't bother with something where the results are measurable but the percentage cure rate is very low, and where the therapeutic value is not understood.

#**123** 17.01.2011, 16:08

	Quote:	Gastro Gnome
	No no. Quantum physics is just the latest bit of science that quacks want to attribute stuff to. It used to be magnetism. You need to be rather more rigorous if you want to use hard science.

well, that's not what I think nor what said the last articles I read about that.

Now Quantum physics as so many openings....

Gastro Gnome · #**124** 17.01.2011, 16:16

	Quote:	miniMia
	Pharma companies already sell things that 'may' work.

That pharma companies can be unethical and produce products that don't work 100% and that we don't necessarly need is no reason to turn to mumbo jumbo. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Gastro Gnome · #**125** 17.01.2011, 16:17

	Quote:	Bertrand - Geneva
	well, that's not what I think nor what said the last articles I read about that. Now Quantum physics as so many openings....

So give us some links to these articles and we'll get some of the physicists on the board to give us their opinion.

miniMia · #**126** 17.01.2011, 16:54

	Quote:	Gastro Gnome
	That pharma companies can be unethical and produce products that don't work 100% and that we don't necessarly need is no reason to turn to mumbo jumbo. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I don't think they necessarily intend to make products that don't work 100%. I just think that's the way it is. We are all different. One medicine doesn't work on you may work on me.

I agree though just because some treatment doesn't work 100% we don't need to through the baby out with the bath water.

#**127** 17.01.2011, 17:08

	Quote:	ProsperityJoy
	That is why some medicines, herbs etc...will work on one person and not on another. If the healing had nothing to do with the state of the persons consciousness then everyone could have the same treatment and be healed....Ciao

That is because people are not identical. This happens because nature makes spelling mistakes copying billions of letters of DNA alphabet.

What you call placebo is also just a mechanism to trigger body's defense mechanism to self heal, which it does very well most of the time.

Snake oil in any packing is snake oil.

#**128** 17.01.2011, 17:29

	Quote:	Gastro Gnome
	So give us some links to these articles and we'll get some of the physicists on the board to give us their opinion.

Actually I don't care about their opinion

Gastro Gnome · #**129** 17.01.2011, 17:35

	Quote:	Bertrand - Geneva
	Actually I don't care about their opinion

You don't care what some physicists think about some articles relying on physics?

At least link to the articles so that we can judge for ourselves?

Tom1234 · #**130** 17.01.2011, 17:45

As faith-healers seem to be taken so seriously by (some) Swiss people, do those people such as Bertrand who insist that they possess such powers get exempt from paying health insurance?

After all, they don't need it, do they?

If I possessed magic powers, I'd try and spend my life doing good out there amongst the people rather than spending my time trying to convince a load of foreign sceptics on an online forum.

Then we could read all about it in 20 minutes

Gastro Gnome · #**131** 17.01.2011, 18:01

	Quote:	cereus
	What's even more fun is that research suggests that placebos work even when you are told you are taking a placebo. Of course, more research needs to be done and the article nicely points out some limitations. http://healthland.time.com/2010/12/2...-fake-but-how/

	Quote:
	They were instructed that taking the medication at the times and doses prescribed was “critical.” In essence, the researchers revealed that they were using placebos — but, unlike the approach used in typical trials, they told patients that the pills work.

I don't really understand this paragraph.

If the researchers said that the pills were a placebo but also that they work, isn't that in some way a contradictory statement?

I suspect that what's happening here is that the mind in some way has an idea that treatment is happening . . . this is supplied by the regimen, saying that the regimen is 'critical' etc . . . The very idea of a placebo is being made unclear.

edot · #**132** 17.01.2011, 19:21

	Quote:	Gastro Gnome
	I don't really understand this paragraph. If the researchers said that the pills were a placebo but also that they work, isn't that in some way a contradictory statement? I suspect that what's happening here is that the mind in some way has an idea that treatment is happening . . . this is supplied by the regimen, saying that the regimen is 'critical' etc . . . The very idea of a placebo is being made unclear.

Different drugs react differently in different individuals so there tends to be a variable response. That's the first part. The second is that we don't quite understand the mind body connection, but it is pretty clear that immune systems are impacted by mood and emotion. For example people under stress are more likely to get colds. Maybe both health promoting behaviors and immune functioning are impacted.

With placebo it can be much the same, plus you have those people who just improve over time. Whether it impacts behaviors or the immune system or both, the idea of being treated results in improvement for some people, even if they receive a placebo.