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  #61  
Old 11.06.2014, 04:28
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Re: Airconditioning advice

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If you air condtioning has the condenser outside- and it is noisy- your neighbours who sleep with windows open will probably complain to landlord/agent and they will require you to take it down. The permanent whine and noise from an air con unit is one of the most irrirating and the cause of many neighbour disputes.
This is a good point. Our neighbor somehow has low noise tolerance (complains from her open window at the slightest pretext) and we have to keep our windows closed as long as we are awake during the quiet hours.

This is part of the reason that I wanted feedback from someone who owns such an air-conditioning unit.
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Old 12.06.2014, 09:55
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Re: Airconditioning advice

We have recently been asking many of these same questions. We are told by realtors, Swiss born residents and many others that air conditioning in private residences is not allowed. That being said, it is clear you can buy the portable kind. Makes me wonder why we don't see more whole house/attic fans and/or swamp coolers. Also, with the number of homes with solar panels on the roofs, it seems electricity usage wouldn't be as much of an issue.

We are renting a Minergie house and cannot figure out how the system works to maximize cooling (the manual is in German and our neighbors who have the same system haven't been able to provide much insight). We have tried fan on, fan off, windows and shades closed, windows open/shades closed. Let's face it, it is hot here right now. We have been told that the summers have been getting hotter. We currently own 3 fans and are considering a room cooling/ac unit but not sure how it will work or the cost in utilities. I will watch for your reports of power usage.

Holly
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  #63  
Old 12.06.2014, 11:08
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Re: Airconditioning advice

I don't know about minergie houses (if you scan a couple pages of the booklet I can give you a rough translation) but here is the approved Swiss-hausfrau way of keeping a normal house cool in summer. It works pretty well but it does assume someone will be at home most of the day.

Sleep with windows open if you think it advisable. (Local opinion is split over whether this is hygienic and healthful, or a good way to catch pneumonia, Föhnkrankheit and other unspecified ills.)
If not, get up early in the morning and immediately open all the windows and blinds. Make a large pot of peppermint tea and leave it on the counter to cool. Do any physically strenuous housework at this time of day.

Throughout the morning, as the sun hits each window, immediately close the blinds. If there is a good stiff breeze blowing, you can leave the blinds almost-closed, with cracks showing between them, to continue to let some fresh air in. Otherwise, close 'em tight.

Around lunchtime, or as soon as the air outside has become much hotter than the air inside, close the windows as well as blinds. (If you're going out for part of the day, close blinds and windows pre-emptively, better to err on the side of closing too many than too few.)

Drink the peppermint tea mid-afternoon, at room temperature. I drop a few ice cubes in mine but my Swiss friends think I'm a bit strange - if you want a cold drink, they say, drink cold tap water.

Open everything again in the evening when the air has cooled down (windows) or when direct sunlight is no longer hitting that side of the house (blinds). Leave everything open until bedtime or possibly overnight, see above. Repeat until September.
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  #64  
Old 12.06.2014, 11:31
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Re: Airconditioning advice

Yep MathNut that's the way to do it. We don't have a problem here, the house inside is always cool enough. I don't mind noise, kids shouting, dogs barking, tractors, mowers- all part of village rural life. But the constant whine and buzz from an air-conditioning unit would drive me up the wall if put too close to my windows. Fortunately it can't happen here But if I lived in a flat and someone installed a noisy air-con unit near my balcony and windows- I would definitely deal with it. Sorry.

Perhaps modern units are much quieter- and that would be fine. But it is a subject which keeps lawyers happy and the subject of umpteen neighbour disputes. A friend in France lives in a modern house which is quite close to their neighbour, with their patio at the side- a haven a peace. Then neighbour put large air con unit on the wall by their back door, next to the patio and below their bedroom- and all hell let loose- but friend won. (British btw and in France... nothing to do with being Swiss )

Last edited by Odile; 12.06.2014 at 12:29.
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  #65  
Old 12.06.2014, 11:44
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Re: Airconditioning advice

Complaining neighbors with nothing better to do is such an Alain concept to me. I had air conditioning in central London 25 years ago, no one ever said a word. It's builders that start at 6.45 am then go for breakfast at 7.00 that I don't get.
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  #66  
Old 12.06.2014, 11:58
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Re: Airconditioning advice

The problem here is that my apartment is on the top floor, and it is situated in Ticino where the sun is brutal in the summer.

The rooms are reaching 30C - 32C during the day without any heat removal. In my opinion 30C room temperatures are borderline uncomfortable.
Ideally I would like 25C or less in summers. Do the Swiss have different expectations and tolerance to heat?

I have no idea if the apartment is Minergie; the windows do help keep substantial noise out.

I do not see the Minergie vents in my apartment, as advertised in this brochure though.
http://www.minergie.ch/tl_files/down...ner_en_web.pdf

I do sleep with windows open and close them the first thing in the morning since there are a few construction projects going on nearby.

Does not seem to help much with the room temperatures.
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  #67  
Old 12.06.2014, 12:02
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Re: Airconditioning advice

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The problem here is that my apartment is on the top floor, and it is situated in Ticino where the sun is brutal in the summer.
Mine too, but it doesn't get above 29C, despite facing south.

Maybe because ours is an older (ca. 1980) building, without any of this minergie BS?

Tom
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  #68  
Old 12.06.2014, 12:16
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Re: Airconditioning advice

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The rooms are reaching 30C - 32C during the day without any heat removal. In my opinion 30C room temperatures are borderline uncomfortable.
Ideally I would like 25C or less in summers. Do the Swiss have different expectations and tolerance to heat?
The housewife spends all her day opening and closing blinds to a set routine, and pops out to Migros and Coop to queue for them to open at 7am. The entire family then eat a salad for dinner, sit on the balcony smoking, and go to bed at 10pm.

After 2 weeks the hot temperatures have gone (but apart from the window/blind dance life carries on as above).
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  #69  
Old 12.06.2014, 12:22
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Re: Airconditioning advice

I've kept everything closed - windows, shutters and the canopy rolled out shielding the windows further while we're all out at work and school then opened everything up in the evening when the sun has sunk down a bit (say around 6.30pm).

I keep a couple of windows open overnight and the temperature of our flat is no more than 24C.
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Old 12.06.2014, 12:31
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Re: Airconditioning advice

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Mine too, but it doesn't get above 29C, despite facing south.

Maybe because ours is an older (ca. 1980) building, without any of this minergie BS?

Tom
So why install air con then

As said, noise does not bother me generally- but the kind of noise an air con unit creates (unless, as said, modern ones are much better on that front) would drive me spare- and I do have plenty to do
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  #71  
Old 12.06.2014, 12:47
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Re: Airconditioning advice

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So why install air con then

As said, noise does not bother me generally- but the kind of noise an air con unit creates (unless, as said, modern ones are much better on that front) would drive me spare- and I do have plenty to do
Design is important, my external ac unit is very quiet. Standing next to it on the balcony the sound is barely audible. Same with the fan in our bedroom;tried several in the store before I found a noiseless one.
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Old 12.06.2014, 12:50
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Airconditioning advice

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So why install air con then

As said, noise does not bother me generally- but the kind of noise an air con unit creates (unless, as said, modern ones are much better on that front) would drive me spare- and I do have plenty to do
I like bedrooms to be at 24 degrees summer & winter, hotter than that I find it more difficult to sleep

The neighbour is about to start pile driving for their swimming pool any Minute Attachment 82820
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  #73  
Old 12.06.2014, 12:50
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Re: Airconditioning advice

Great- perhaps share model, etc, here.
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Old 12.06.2014, 13:53
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Re: Airconditioning advice

Whatever you do, don't sleep in a closed room with the fan on. YOU WILL DIE! Well, you will if you're Korean.
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  #75  
Old 12.06.2014, 14:11
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Re: Airconditioning advice

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Whatever you do, don't sleep in a closed room with the fan on. YOU WILL DIE! Well, you will if you're Korean.
And if they don't turn the fan on, their plastic faces will melt. Korean dilemma.

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  #76  
Old 12.06.2014, 14:23
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Re: Airconditioning advice

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Whatever you do, don't sleep in a closed room with the fan on. YOU WILL DIE! Well, you will if you're Korean.
I have been doing this since last 5 days
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  #77  
Old 12.06.2014, 14:24
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Re: Airconditioning advice

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Great- perhaps share model, etc, here.
Is it an Inverter AC? I have heard several good things about them. The compressor is driven by a DC motor whose speed (rpm) can be controlled by PWM according to cooling needs, reducing need to cycle on and off.
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Old 12.06.2014, 14:26
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Re: Airconditioning advice

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I like bedrooms to be at 24 degrees summer & winter, hotter than that I find it more difficult to sleep

The neighbour is about to start pile driving for their swimming pool any Minute Attachment 82820
My ideal indoor temps would be 24C in the summer and 20C in the winter, that has how I set my home temps back in the states.
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  #79  
Old 12.06.2014, 14:29
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Re: Airconditioning advice

The problem (as I see it, not having one) is that if I did have an aircon unit, the flat would be lovely and cool and this would act as a disincentive to sit on my balcony, or go out. I'd just sit at home, feeling nice and cool.

Whereas now, the differential isn't so great and in fact the breeze I get outside offsets the higher temperature, so staying in, going out, it's all the same. So I go out more.

The above logic stops me buying an aircon unit. I do have a ceiling fan in my bedroom though which so far hasn't killed me, but made me very comfy in bed. At least, I don't think I'm dead, but then again my version of heaven is to piss away the afterlife waffling on EF, so who knows.
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Old 12.06.2014, 15:27
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Re: Airconditioning advice

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Great- perhaps share model, etc, here.
It is a Fust Novomatic CL850. I did not share details because firstly I do not know if it is a current model and secondly I do not want people moaning at me if they buy one and it is a noisy one.
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