I am one of the annoyingly punctual payer of bills and yes I even use the yellow post book when doing so.

In general about bills in Switzerland:

--Rent is ALWAYS paid at the beginning of the month!

--With a paying in slip you have 30 days from the date thats printed on the letter, to pay the bill,if you don't do that you' will get a nicely formulated reminder some days after the time limit is over, if you still don't pay by then, you will get a 2nd letter ( 2.Mahnung) which is already formulated a bit harsher and usually there is a some amount for P&P added to it.Things get serious with the 3rd letter ( 3.Mahnung) where you are warned if you don't cough up the cash within ten days, they will start legal proceedings e.g. a Betreibung.

We haven't got the same credit rating as in the UK, for example,our ratings (sort of) is the Betreibungsregister.

But other than that,if you are late in paying your bills you are starting a vicious circle not only for yourself, but also for,i.e. a handyman like a plumber or electrician,who needs your money to keep his business afloat.

For me it's basically also good manners to be punctual in paying my bills.............

All the bills have a "payable until day X" written down, so usually I pay on that day or the day before, even if it arrived more 1 month before (like the Billag one).

Rent goes out on the first day of the month for me too.

One of the things that surprised me when I first came here, many years ago, was that I could order something and it would be delivered without any payment or deposit. This is so good, especially when you order something by phone and want it quickly, but a business can only do this when they know that a very large proportion of people will act in good faith and pay the bill promptly. Sending out reminders, even if it’s automated, still costs money and, in the end, we all have to pay for this. So, if you are late paying your bills, in the end, we all suffer. There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch !

Medical insurance is an example of this as all the companies incur bad debts and this is reflected in the premiums we pay. Those on low incomes get a subsidy from their canton but, having seen it on the inside, there are bad payers who seem to put their lifestyle before paying their premiums and this costs all of us.

This argument is often used by companies when introducing unpopular measures that wont affect everyone equally: if we dont do this then it will result in increased charges to the consumer.

You could apply this argument to almost any aspect of business: "If we forced to provide our customers with reasonable service and a product that works then we will have to increase our prices..." Its been heard most recently with increased charges for bank withdrawals.

There is never any mention of recouping the costs of said measures through efficiency improvements. Nor is there much attention given to the obscene profits already made by these companies.

As a side issue, do you advocate cherry-picking by insurers ? Because thats the way things are heading and if you take that arguement to its logical conclusion : "these old people are unwell costing us money - lets not insure them any more..."

If I have an accident which results in a huge liability claim on an insurer, will you blame me for pushing up premiums ? Just wondering...


dave

You seem to be having a rant about everything in general here !

With regard to bad payers, the fact is that when you run a business, as I did, the cost of running it is increased if you have to employ people just to chase the money which is due to you and that has to be included in your pricing. The efficiency would come if people paid their bills on time and the overheads could be reduced accordingly.

As to “..the obscene profits made by these companies” sorry but I don’t know what companies you are refering to.

Regarding cherry-picking by insurers, no I don’t advocate it and, no I wouldn’t blame you for a big insurance claim. That’s what the insurance is there for but I would blame you if you caused extra costs to arise because you had to be chased for a debt.

I just leave all the bills to the wife - she knows when to pay them so I dont have to worry about that

No, simply adding a bit of spice to what is otherwise a pretty dull thread of the Goody-Two-Shoes variety.
You are right in that there are costs associated with debt collection, and if not properly managed can be the kiss-of-death to a small businessman. That said, the 30days, or even 90days payment periods are there for a reason to allow for accounting periods or salaries to arrive. The supplying business should account for this.

If there are 30 days to pay then as I said earlier, why should I rush to settle the bill ? I dont see ezw or Swisscom rushing around my house that day when I have a technical problem ? In fact these days you pay for customer support. Im not advocating deliberately pushing it beyond the limits, but simply making best use of the contract terms.

In fact, if the numbers are large, it is good business to pay at the last minute.

The suppliers would have you believe efficiency would come about if you let these large organisation have access to your bank account so they can take it when the feel like it - even if they dont feel like providing a service this month. It called Direct Debit. if you have ever tried to sort out a double deduction from your account you will know how much trouble this can be.

	Quote:	Blonaybear
	With regard to bad payers, the fact is that when you run a business, as I did, the cost of running it is increased if you have to employ people just to chase the money which is due to you and that has to be included in your pricing. The efficiency would come if people paid their bills on time and the overheads could be reduced accordingly.

Pick a privatised utility companies, or a dominant telecoms company. These are the companies that most consumers have to deal with.
"People in your area cost me more to supply with electricity than the rest of the canton, so I am going to add a 20% premium to your bill each month. " Happy with that ? "I dont see why I should have to subsidise people such as yourself that chose to live in such a remote area....." Where does such allocation of costs end ?

dave

I think many business purposely pay their bills as late as possible, but aggressively collect on debtors, to keep cash in the bank as long as possible I imagine it's a real pain if you deal with businesses who employ this tactic.


However, I'm not a business, I try to have everything organised and paid automatically soon after pay day, that way I know that whatever I have in the bank, I can spend.

every large company I've contracted for has paid the invoice on the 30th day.

Blonay must've been proper lil' league

Oh, I see, a bit of spice, say no more ! Heard they (The Spice Girls) were getting back together. Sounds like Desperate Housewives – The Musical.

Well, sorry to tell you this but, I agree with much of what you say as you are refering to big utility companies etc.

For big companies I always pay their bills when they're due, but not before. For small companies, especially those who give good service, I pay quicker.

I just hope that bad debts don’t get to the stage where companies can’t risk delivery before payment.

Didn’t deal with large companies just general public (whoever he is) in the UK

my inernet didnt broke down/works
my mobile fon worked/works
the heating warmed my ass

ergo i took up a service i have to pay for.
i never had problems with bigger or smaller comps,
thats why i pay, then it is done. simply as that.
of course i do it in the range of time they offer
me. e.g. pfister brought my furniture along and time
of payment had to be within 90days, so i took 90 days
in full. but then i dont wait until the 3rd reminder
has arrived, because pfister fullfilled the deal in
every respect, so do i.

if any miss service will come along with any of the "big fish",
i will surely think it over when it isnt fullfilled to my convenience.

I've said it before and will say it again, businesses are not required to send you any reminders before they take legal action against those who don't pay. Third Mahnungen are rare these days and companies with less than stellar reputation like Intrum Iustitia live off nothing else but providing Betreibung services to other businesses with non-paying customers.

Personally I'm an early payer, two weeks max. With automated payments and e-banking, it's even easier to me. I use Debit Direct with my post account, Swisscom sends me the monthly bill by email and my account is charged a full month later, so you have enough time to intervene if something doesn't seem right.

yes, please repeat it so we can again give it the attention it truly deserves. I am not sure who your responding to here ?

I am not sure about this. Normally, the business should take "reasonable steps" to recover the debt before resorting to legal remedies. One of these should be sending at least one reminder post the original bill. I dont know the detail of swiss debt recovery procedures, but I would be very surprised if such a prerequisite did not exist.

dave

Nathu's right. You do not have to send reminders before starting a "Betreibung" procedure. Anybody can do it, if they have reasonable proof that the money is owed. E.g. online shop (like mine) - e an invoice and a receipt from the post office that goods were sent out would suffice.

This is how it would work:
- I send out goods with payment slip
- Customer receives goods but does not pay
- I go to local community office and file "Betreibung" (sorry actual word does not come to mind right now)
- I have to pay for this "service" (around CHF 100.- for small amounts, could vary though)
- The "Betreibung" is sent to the customer
- The customer has the right to deny that he owes money by writing on "Rechtsvorschlag" and sending back within 10 days
- Then it's up to the online shop to take proceedings further or write off the loss.

I can tell you that if people are nice enough to send you a 2. Mahnung (warning) then within a couple of months you will be invited to the Betreibungsamt.

Guess where I was this morning Suppose I'd better pay 2006 tax now

To EastEnders who repeated the misinformation that there will be one bill plus three reminders before the debtee can take legal measures. I've seen this misinformation here just two weeks ago.

I have no first hand experience but the law requires no further notice between bill and Betreibung. Businesses still send letters because it's more efficient than the administrative overhead of a legal prosecution, in the beginning.

Can I ask you please to post the relevant legal article of the OR or ZGB,where this is stated? I have taken the time to read through the relevant chapters but i haven't found anything and I would really like to know more.

I admit I don't know ,I presume that it might be legal to start a Betreibung just after sending out a bill,without sending reminders, but it's not the done deal here.
I think this is something that is ingrained here as customary to do,even if there might be ( presumedly ) no law to cement it.
I don't know of any business (ours included) that would start a Betreibung after thirty days .

I am looking forward to your more indepth information!

EE

Cheers

I always pay with internet banking.
When the bill arrives pay it on the 28th (1 day after pay day) or on the date that the bill states. Zurich car insurance tend to have a habit of sending a bill 2 months before it needs paying and medical bills I wait till Sanitas have put the money in my account. I see some company’s add Sfr 5 on if you are sent a reminder.

DC

Try this link about debt collection.

There is no legal need for businesses to send out reminders before starting proceedings. This is a widely spread misconception - among the Swiss too.

However, it does make sense as a business to send a friendly reminder before going that far... especially if you want to keep them as customers. We can all forget to pay a bill from time to time.

I also have standing orders for some bills, the rest I pay through ebanking so I get an alert on my email that there is sometghing to be paid. I don't even get sent a paper bill, just online version. Makes it so much easier. I pay everything right away that way I can stay on top of things financially and will not be in debt.

The Post method of payment has got to be one of the most outdated methods ever! It's incredible people still make use of this.