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  #21  
Old 20.09.2010, 01:34
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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The new Swiss national anthem i belive was inroduced around 1920 because the old anthem did sound too similar with the UK Good save the Queen.

But by law it is still provisional not an official anthem.
"Provisional" is the word for "unpopular"
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  #22  
Old 02.04.2011, 07:09
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

Discord over National Anthem 30 years on

It may be marking its 30-year anniversary on Friday [01.04.2011], but the Swiss National Anthem still continues to cause debate in the country.

Surveys have found that much of the population do not know the words and there have also been attempts to modernise the song.

The government declared the Swiss Psalm, as it is known, the national anthem on April 1, 1981. Starting with the words “Radiant in the morning sky…” the song was actually composed in 1841, but the authorities long hesitated about its status, believing that it would not be accepted by the population.

More on Swissinfo

Officialdom link

Related info

Interesting link





Download the OGG format instrumental version here


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  #23  
Old 02.04.2011, 08:36
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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This caught my eye, the foreigners in the Government are singing the Swiss National Hymn, from 1841, better,

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/standard/Nationalhymne-Eingebuergert-singt-besser/story/28770509

sung with German text
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0Wgto7__-c&feature=related

sung with French text
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7FEvaBMXoI&feature=related

first verse only, loosely translated into English
Seeing the red dawning skies,
Reflected in the shining lake,
You, Lord of Glory
If the Alpine snow reddens,
Pray, Free Swiss, pray.
Your pious soul suspects:
God in the noble Fatherland!
God, the Lord, the noble country!

text in Schwyzerdütsch

Trittst im Morgenrot daher,
Seh' ich dich im Strahlenmeer,
Dich, du Hocherhabener, Herrlicher!
Wenn der Alpen Firn sich rötet,
Betet, freie Schweizer, betet.
Eure fromme Seele ahnt
Gott im hehren Vaterland!
Gott, den Herrn, im hehren Vaterland!

text in French Swiss
Sur nos monts, quand le soleil
Annonce un brillant réveil,
Et prédit d'un plus beau jour le retour.
Les beautés de la patrie
Parlent à l'âme attendrie;
Au ciel montent plus joyeux (bis)
Les accents d'un cœur pieux,
Les accents émus d'un cœur pieux.
__________________________________________
Funny. The "French Swiss" looks identical to French.

The meaning is rather different from the German version though.

On our mountains when the sun declares a brilliant dawn,
And herald again a most beautiful day.
The beauties of the country
Speak to the moved (waiting?) soul;
Rise to heaven more joyous (???)
The tones of a pious heart,
Tone moved a pious heart.
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  #24  
Old 02.04.2011, 11:21
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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Funny. The "French Swiss" looks identical to French.
Funny, the "Schwyzerdütsch" looks identical to Standard German. And it is. It's not Swiss German at all, not a single word. Just like the French version, where there is not a trace of "patois" (dialect).

And you are right -- while the German version is full of God, so to say, that guy does not even figure in the French version. Just a spoonful of piety is casually mentioned.
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Old 02.04.2011, 11:35
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

Link with the versions in the four national languages
http://www.uni-protokolle.de/Lexikon...izerpsalm.html

None of them is dialectal. It's High German, French as French, Italian and Rumantsch Grischun. They use thus all four unified languages and not dialect versions of them, which would be less relevant for French but very relevant for the other three: Schiizerdüütsch of all kinds, Tecinese/Bergaliot/Poschiavese and the five romansh idioms.

They sing the official national anthem in official standard languages. You don't get more official than that.

As always, the rumantsch situation is different. Up to recently, all five idioms were official in Graubünden/Grischun and the idiom-versions exist and are still sung by people if they feel like it. Now, only Rumantsch Grischun is official written norm, so that they do not write anything official in idioms anymore, even if the real use of the language is far more varied and polymorphic than the official line. But that explains why one finds only the Rumantsch Grischun version as official text now.
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Old 02.04.2011, 12:58
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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the five romansh idioms.
When (in another thread) I referred to Rumantsch Grischun being composed of four elements you red-blobbed me, stating that
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Rumantsch Grischun is based on three idioms, not four and not dialects.
and now it is five all of a sudden ? I am getting confused. Do you mind clarifying your opinion ?
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Old 02.04.2011, 14:06
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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When (in another thread) I referred to Rumantsch Grischun being composed of four elements you red-blobbed me, stating that

"Rumantsch Grischun is based on three idioms, not four and not dialects,"

and now it is five all of a sudden ? I am getting confused. Do you mind clarifying your opinion ?
The Swiss versions of Romansh (the correct English word) are divided into three main regional dialects, namely

1) Sursilvan = Romontsch, spoken in the Anterior Rhine Valley = Surselva,

2) Grischun Central = Central Grison, spoken in the lower part of the Posterior Rhine Valley, the Albula Valley and the Oberhalbstein = Surses,

3) Ladin = Engiadinais, spoken in the Engadin Valley and Val Müstair.

The differences between these three regional languages are so pronounced that they need separate dictionaries. Within just a few dozen kilometers there are bigger differences than between Zurich and Berlin. However, two of them are again subdived, namely

2 a) Sutsilvan, the Grischun Central spoken in said lower part of the Posterior Rhine Valley,

2 b) Surmiran, the Grischun Central spoken in the eastern valleys of the Grischun Central region.

These two versions share a dictionary with many separate entries.

3 a) Putèr, spoken in the Upper Engadine Valley,

3 b) Valladder, spoken in the lower Engadine and, with some pronounced differences, in the Val Müstair.

Again, these two versions share one dictionary (Dicziunari Rumantsch Ladin). Many words are the same, but some may differ quite a lot. For instance, a village is "vschinauncha" in Putèr but "cumün" in Vallader; the main room of the classic Engadine farm house is a "piertan" in Putèr but a "sulèr" in Vallader.

Anyway, that makes three main regions with five dialects.

Rumantsch Grischun, however, is a fully synthetic creation of the second half of the 20th century, an attempt to unify those very autochthonous mountain tribes at least on a linguistic level. Normally, no one actually speaks Rumantsch Grischun. It's a paper language in the first place, but it can be used also in spoken form, for instance in a speech that's addressed at all Romansh speakers, in laws, other official documents and, as in the case of this thread, in a common version of the National Anthem.
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  #28  
Old 02.04.2011, 15:07
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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Link with the versions in the four national languages
http://www.uni-protokolle.de/Lexikon...izerpsalm.html
Faltrad, thank you very much. Honestly, it's the first time I see the Rumantsch Grischun version. I've never heard any of the other Romansh versions either. I notice that the Rumantsch Grischun lyrics are very close to the German original, even closer than the Italian version. Obviously it's only the French translator who didn't immediately jump on the religious bandwaggon ("immediately" meaning in the first verse).
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  #29  
Old 02.04.2011, 18:34
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

I don't know why so many people loathe the national anthem. I personally like it. Perhaps a bit slow but it is very recognizable and fairly melodious.
Shame on those politicians though. I do know the lyrics!
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Old 02.04.2011, 18:45
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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The Swiss versions of Romansh (the correct English word) are divided into three main regional dialects, namely

1) Sursilvan = Romontsch, spoken in the Anterior Rhine Valley = Surselva,

2) Grischun Central = Central Grison, spoken in the lower part of the Posterior Rhine Valley, the Albula Valley and the Oberhalbstein = Surses,

3) Ladin = Engiadinais, spoken in the Engadin Valley and Val Müstair.

The differences between these three regional languages are so pronounced that they need separate dictionaries. Within just a few dozen kilometers there are bigger differences than between Zurich and Berlin. However, two of them are again subdived, namely

2 a) Sutsilvan, the Grischun Central spoken in said lower part of the Posterior Rhine Valley,

2 b) Surmiran, the Grischun Central spoken in the eastern valleys of the Grischun Central region.

These two versions share a dictionary with many separate entries.

3 a) Putèr, spoken in the Upper Engadine Valley,

3 b) Valladder, spoken in the lower Engadine and, with some pronounced differences, in the Val Müstair.

Again, these two versions share one dictionary (Dicziunari Rumantsch Ladin). Many words are the same, but some may differ quite a lot. For instance, a village is "vschinauncha" in Putèr but "cumün" in Vallader; the main room of the classic Engadine farm house is a "piertan" in Putèr but a "sulèr" in Vallader.

Anyway, that makes three main regions with five dialects.

Rumantsch Grischun, however, is a fully synthetic creation of the second half of the 20th century, an attempt to unify those very autochthonous mountain tribes at least on a linguistic level. Normally, no one actually speaks Rumantsch Grischun. It's a paper language in the first place, but it can be used also in spoken form, for instance in a speech that's addressed at all Romansh speakers, in laws, other official documents and, as in the case of this thread, in a common version of the National Anthem.
And don't forget 'ladin', which is similar to Rumantsch, but spoke in Italy by 10x as many people (500,000).

Tom
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Old 02.04.2011, 20:07
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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And don't forget 'ladin', which is similar to Rumantsch, but spoke in Italy by 10x as many people (500,000).

Tom
Sure, but we are talking about the Swiss National Anthem, which is not very frequently sung in Italy.
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Old 02.04.2011, 21:06
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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Sure, but we are talking about the Swiss National Anthem, which is not very frequently sung in Italy.
Ironically, the piece of music that sits on my girlfriend's piano is the 'Schweizer Psalm'.

Don't know if she knows the words, though (of if she can play it).

Personally, I prefer the old tune (written by some French dude, as I recall, before the Brits took it as 'theirs').

Tom
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Old 02.04.2011, 21:27
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

This thread reminds me of one of my all-time-favourite viral videos:

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Old 02.04.2011, 23:16
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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I don't know why so many people loathe the national anthem. I personally like it. Perhaps a bit slow but it is very recognizable and fairly melodious.
Shame on those politicians though. I do know the lyrics!
Yes, it's beautiful. The words are peaceful and full of hope
I love it when people get up and sing during the 1st of August celebrations
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  #35  
Old 02.04.2011, 23:30
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

I agree. It is pretty melancholic and soothing. So much nicer than those military marches that are used as national anthems.
Bertrand, there is a "karaoke" version floating on Youtube. Feel free to learn it
It is from the "ensemble vocal de Villars-sur-Glâne"

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Old 02.04.2011, 23:34
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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When (in another thread) I referred to Rumantsch Grischun being composed of four elements you red-blobbed me, stating that

and now it is five all of a sudden ? I am getting confused. Do you mind clarifying your opinion ?
Rumantsch Grischun is base on three idioms, the three main ones, as the other two are used by very small communities (sutsilvan, only actively used in Schons and puter) and one of those two smaller ones is closed to a bigger one (Puter is closed to Vallader). But some single words from times to times have been taken from small idioms or dialects: jau (I) comes from Jauer, the Müstair version of Vallader, and gea (yes) comes from sutsilvan.

Definitions used for Romansh:

Idiom = a local variaty of rumantsch with a written norm attested in history (in practice, more or less since the reformation).
Dialect = a local variety of rumantsch that differs somehow from idioms but that use one of the idiom's written norm and spelling for writing.
Note that both idioms and dialects are intercomprehensible, some with greater efforts than others or with more or less misunderstanding when exposed to other ones at the beginning.

The project of speaking Rumantsch Grischun when addressing all Rumantsch speakers is not exactly followed by anybody. Even in RTR (telly and radio), everybody uses orally one's own idiom, but with care as to not use to difficult expressions one knows are not easy to understand on the other side of the montain. And Cadruvi, Lia Rumantscha's General secratary at the moment, uses sursilvan when speaking in the news and I've heard him holding a speech in sursilvan in Engiadina last summer, even if the Lia Rumantscha is the agency promoting Rumantsch Grischun. Let's say one speak like at home but with special attention to intercomprehensibility - it's pretty much like in Scandinavia in practice.

EDIT: Vallader version found on internet with source given but not checked... the text is however perfectly correct linguistically, I can say at least that. The sursilvan is on the same forum. http://www.nationalanthems.us/forum/...num=1090925202

In l'aurora la daman
At cugnuoscha bain l'uman
Spiert etern dominatur
Tuot pussant!
Cur ils munts straglüschan sura
Ura, liber Svizzer, ura.
Tia orma sainta ferm
Dieu in tschêl, il bap etern!
Dieu in tschêl, il bap, il bap etern!

Eir la saira in splendur
Da las stailas in l'azur
Tai chattain nus, creatur
Tuot pussant!
Cur cha'l firmamaint sclerescha
In noss cours fidanza crescha.
Tia orma sainta ferm
Dieu in tschêl, il bap etern!
Dieu in tschêl, il bap, il bap etern!

Tü a nus nun est zoppà
Cur il tschêl in nüvlas sta
Tü imperscrutabel spiert
Tuot pussant!
Tschêl e terra t'obedeschan
Vents e nüvlas secundeschan.
Tia orma sainta ferm
Dieu in tschêl, il bap etern!
Dieu in tschêl, il bap, il bap etern!

Eir l'orcan plü furius
Nun at muossa main a nus
Sco il dirigent dal muond
Tuot pussant!
Eir in temporals terribels
Sun teis uordens bain visibels.
Tia orma sainta ferm
Dieu in tschêl, il bap etern!
Dieu in tschêl, il bap, il bap etern!

Source:
CD "Eusi Schwiiz" (Tell 51 1027-2)
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  #37  
Old 03.04.2011, 01:40
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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jau (I) comes from Jauer, the Müstair version of Vallader, and gea (yes) comes from sutsilvan.
I suspect "jau" was chosen because it sounds practically the same as many local pronunciations of the Vallader and Puter "eu," but without leaving any doubt concerning the pronunciation. Sort of a cross-platform spelling, so to say.

By the way, it was funny, when I wrote my post, for the life of me I could not remember the word Jauer. I truly had a senior moment.
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Definitions used for Romansh:

Idiom = a local variaty of rumantsch with a written norm attested in history (in practice, more or less since the reformation).
Dialect = a local variety of rumantsch that differs somehow from idioms but that use one of the idiom's written norm and spelling for writing.
Note that both idioms and dialects are intercomprehensible, some with greater efforts than others or with more or less misunderstanding when exposed to other ones at the beginning.
I wrote "dialect" instead of "idiom," simply because the English word "idiom" has several meanings, and only one of them is correct in this context, whereas, for instance, in Vallader (which calls itself "l'idiom vallader," by the way) it has only one meaning, namely a group of dialects.

Now back to the topic.

As for liking or disliking the anthem, although I am an apathetic agnostic, I don't have a problem with the religious bias of the anthem or its sticky solemnity. The problem I see lies in the fact that the last line of each verse is so doggone long and slow that no one ever knows when it's over. "Gooott, den Herrn, im heeeeeehren Vaaa-aaa-aaaterland." It always falls apart, which is pretty awkward and embarrassing, as embarrasing as the fact that most people, just like most Americans with their Star-Spangled Banner, know only the lyrics of the first stanza.
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  #38  
Old 03.04.2011, 01:40
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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Surveys have found that much of the population do not know the words
You don't even need a survey. Just go to any national or cantonal fete and you will find the crowd will barely mouth the words to the anthem. We play it all the time on official occasions. The government officials have a hard time with it! I think the melody is quite nice though; I like it much more than the melodies of the French or US anthems which are too militaristic for my taste.

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But now, I'm Genevan and, as kid I learnt to sing the "A la belle Escalade"
But the true anthem of Geneva is Cé qu'è lainô! Not only do the kids know it, but so do those deficient government officials!
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  #39  
Old 03.04.2011, 01:42
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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Again, these two versions share one dictionary (Dicziunari Rumantsch Ladin). Many words are the same, but some may differ quite a lot. For instance, a village is "vschinauncha" in Putèr but "cumün" in Vallader.
Correct of course, but that is more how the words are used than the words in themselves. I would have answered in private if it was possible. Sorry for the digression in this topic.

Puter vschinauncha exists in vallader as vischnanca, even if the word for the political entity is cumün in vallader. But the puter adjective would be cumünaivel, like vallader. The word is totally transparent both ways for the speaker of both idioms. Cumün exists in both vallader and puter anyway.

I must say that even I, not mother tongue speaker and not that good in Romansh anyway, understand quite good other idioms with some work. Sursilvan, I hear it quite a lot on RTR, so I train my ears well too, even if my idiom of choice is vallader.
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Old 03.04.2011, 02:03
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Re: Swiss National Hymn

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I don't know why so many people loathe the national anthem. I personally like it. Perhaps a bit slow but it is very recognizable and fairly melodious.
Shame on those politicians though. I do know the lyrics!
People loathe the new national anthem as they still believe in the traditional old anthem










while of course, people in Zürich prefer THIS anthem all the time

http://www.sechselaeuten.ch/zzzfiles...ten_marsch.mp3

http://www.lastfm.de/music/Rekrutens...%A4uten+Marsch

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national anthem, national hymn, national song, romansh, rumantsch grischun




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