Hello

Please help. My family is moving from UK to Bern in the next few months.
I am struggling to find an English speaking school that is affordable for my 8 year old son.

I have also played around with the idea of getting a tutor and then finding a club or playgroup for my son to socialise.

Any help or info I would be very grateful..

Thanks

How long are you planning on staying in Switzerland? If it's longer than a couple of years I would put your son in the local school. He will pick up the language really quickly and socialise with the local kids. You can always get an English tutor if you want to keep up with his English ( especially if you are going back there to live eventually)

We are planning on staying for 12-18 months at the moment. But that could change with my wifes job.

Can you recommend any good local schools?

I am a bit worried it maybe a little confusing for him, with not speaking any german.

That's quite a short stay but it may still be worth doing. The school should provide extra German support to help him pick up the language quicker. I'm sorry I can't help with schools as although we are not far from Bern we are in the French speaking part. Bear in mind though that the school your son goes to will depend on where you live. In Switzerland the children attend the school nearest to their home so you actually don't get to directly choose the school but it is of course possible to choose indirectly based on the area you choose to live in.

Read all the other threads here regarding school options. You will find a lot of information, along with many varied opinions from teachers and form other parents. Not speaking German, will not be a problem - chances are that he will learn faster than his parents.

If you are wanting an education in English, then you are stuck with the cost of private schools. A lot of school fees are paid by employers though as part of the package. Perhaps that is a possibility for your wife to negotiate?

There are no affordable international schools in Switzerland. The only options are local schools which are free or private schools which all cost around 25'000 CHF per year give or take.

If the job is just for a short period, although I see you are not sure about this, would it be an option for you and your son to remain in the UK until you are all sure about what will happen with your wifes job?
We moved here when my son was 6 and he loved his UK school. He was not happy to move here and refused to speak German at all for a long period.
I would be cautious to believe stories of fluency within 6 months. It totally depends on your child.
Also the teaching levels at school in the Swiss system compared to the UK are very different. My son is 8 and in year 2 and when I compare what is taught in the UK it is much more simplistic, less creative and more prescriptive. But on the other hand his mental maths is very good, they do a lot of PE, go for lovely school trips and he has had really good help with his German.
Unfortunately there are no "affordable" International Schools. It may be worth investigating your options for homeschooling for your son. It varies by Canton. If the job is for 12 months it may be worth asking if the employer will pay or contribue towards International School - which often have waiting lists too.
Also be aware that the playground situation here is very different. Much less adult supervision, the playground can be a tough place for a non-German speaker. It really does depend on the nature of the school and the teacher your son gets. He will, more thank likely, be left to get on with it. That is my experience from living in a very international area of Zurich. It was a big shock for my son who had come from a very kind, and pastoral UK state school. You son needs to be confident and the playgound is a much more physical place than the UK. Dont expect school gates and a reception to report to with locked doors. That is not the Swiss way. Its also not a judgement by me its a honest description of how it is.
Also be aware you will not get a choice in the school your son attends. When you register in your new Geminder, telling them where you live, they will tell you the school your son will attend. When looking at flats it would be a good idea to have a look at the local schools too, if you can.
I hope my post itsnt too negative but I wanted to give you a slightly different perspective from "just send them to Swiss school they are great".

My children went to a public school in Bern-Bethlehem, I cannot recommend it. But the other areas of Bern are fine. Within 6 months he will be chatting away to his friends.

Hiya,

I have only just come accross this site for the first time and was pleased to find your message on here....

I am in excactly the same position as you, planning on moving to Bern from London by the end of June. So far have only come accross two schools which teach in English and they are both extremely expensive.

I am originally Swiss so I guess for me the relocation will be easier than for my two boys who are 7 and 10yrs old and born in London.

I know that a lot of Swiss children speak English, my boys never have a problem understanding Swiss kids. I keep searching for English Schools so if I find anything else will let you know...
What area are you planning on moving to in Bern?

Hi,
I'm italian and i have lived in Bern for two years. I used to live in uk for three years, in Birmingham, and I used to teach italian language in an High School. My daughter is just two years, but I'm in panic about school here. Worst is about language. In fact as you can probably already know, here in Bern they don't speak exactly High German, but a dialect. At the beginning I thought it could be just a spoken dialect among elderly to keep traditions alive, but believe me for them it's properly their language everywhere. At school, teachers speak in berndeutsch always, in every subject, even in classes of German, which is practically for them like a foreign language. I really don't want my doughter study in schwizerdeutch: a useless language that changes every 20 km in all the swiss german area. And, even swiss people are very proud of it, i don't care at all. I made my decision. Since i can't afford the fees of the international schools, I choose the French School, that is private and expensive too, but more affordable than international or british ones. For the english language, that I'm very fond of and I would like my daughter will be good, there is a english playgroup for english people and not english speakers too, with courses for every ages, where you and your son can socialise. In French school they teach High german and english too, and they follow all the programs of france, that are more similar to italian and I think to british programs too. As far as i know swiss school programs are not great. It's just my opinion. French school would have not been my first choice, but now i'm forced. I will judge the school later. For now it seems to me fine, and at least my daughter will be educated through a good, aknowledged, useful, beautiful language. If you need any help, don't exitate to contact me in a private message.

If teachers are really speaking Berndeutsch while teaching you can report them. They are bound to speak German during the lessons. But as your daughter is just two years I very much doubt that you have practical experience with the teaching system in the canton of Berne. I wonder how you can judge something you even don't know.

In Canton Zurich an 8 yo would be in 2nd or 3rd class, and would be learning English at local school at quite a reasonable standard (as my 9yo does. He writes stories in English, and learns 20 new words each week including "excursion" "exhibition" .... He holds his own in English with kids at home in Oz and also with kids at international schools here - he is not behind, but his German is stronger).

I would put your 8yo in local school (you are not forced to choose - you get the nearest one and the standard is generally high, which I understand is not the case in UK where it is important to choose carefully). The child will benefit from lots of other kids "potential friends", and they pick up the language quickly at that age (this is well researched and well documented elsewhere in the forum).

Importantly, how you feel or whether you are anxious will of course impact your child . Just do it, take a chance on local school and in worse case if you get a bad teacher (which can happen in private schools too, also in UK) then research later what your options are, if you need to. It's a fantastic opportunity to become bilingual! Don't blow that chance for your child.

Lisa

Apart from my personal experience in spielgruppe and other events where my daughter was concerned, such as lectures for children in the library, or music for children classes (and this is enought to understand the general behaviour...), I have lot of mums friends of mine with childrens in Kittas, Kindergarten and School, and they have ALL the same problem. It would be easier, and less expensive for me not to worried about it, but this is the truth, and i don't have any advice to think the opposite. I would be very happy and relieved if somebody can help me too, telling me HOW and WHERE I can have strictly HIGH GERMAN education for my daughter, public, and free, in Bern, at least from teachers (because obviously she will lern berndeutsch from school mates, and it's normal, and it's important for integration). I'm not here to argue, but to help and to be helped too.
Thank you to all can suggest me anything.

I work now for 15 years in that business and I am positive that since 2007 any subject in Bernese schools has to be taught in High German.
If you don't believe me, here's the extract of the "Kantonale Lehrplan", all public schools have to follow. And if you don't believe in this please feel free to mail to the minister of education of the Canton of Berne, Mr. Bernhard Pulver, gs@erz.be.ch


6.8 Unterrichtssprache
In der deutschsprachigen Schweiz wird vorwiegend Mundart gesprochen, Hochdeutsch (Standardsprache) wird für den schriftlichen Ausdruck verwendet. Gesprochenes Hochdeutsch brauchen wir in erster Linie für
die Verständigung mit Menschen, die unsere Mundart schlecht oder gar nicht verstehen. Eine differenzierte sprachliche Ausdrucksfähigkeit ist
im Alltag, im Berufsleben und zur Teilnahme am kulturellen Leben von grosser Bedeutung. Zum Bildungsauftrag der Schule gehört deshalb die bewusste Förderung der sprachlichen Ausdrucksfähigkeit. Die Sprachkompetenz der Schülerinnen und Schüler lässt sich durch eine bewusste Sprachverwendung in allen Fächern gezielt entwickeln. Da sich die Schülerinnen und Schüler im Alltag in erster Linie in Mundart verständigen,kommt der Schule die Aufgabe zu, die Verständigung in Hochdeutsch besonders zu fördern. Was die Unterrichtssprache betrifft, sind folgende Aspekte zu beachten:
– Hochdeutsch ist keine Fremdsprache. Kinder sind mit dem Hochdeutschen von den Medien her bereits vertraut. Im Hörverstehen ist das Nebeneinander von Hochdeutsch und Mundart für alle Unterrichtsstufen eine Selbstverständlichkeit. Die Schule ist jedoch für
die meisten Kinder und Jugendlichen der einzige Ort,wo sie das Sprechen des Hochdeutschen aufbauen und gezielt üben können.
– Damit die Schülerinnen und Schüler Gelegenheit erhalten, sich in vielfältigen Situationen hochdeutsch auszudrücken, wird in allen Fächern grundsätzlich hochdeutsch gesprochen. Wenn Mundart gesprochen wird, soll dies bewusst und gezielt geschehen.
Hochdeutsch und Mundart sind nicht an bestimmte Unterrichtssituationen gebunden.
– Die Lernenden können während der Schulzeit eine offene Einstellung zum aktiven Gebrauch des Hochdeutschen aufbauen. Diese wird wesentlich durch die Haltung der Lehrperson geprägt. Lehrerinnen und Lehrer bemühen sich um eine differenzierte und korrekte Sprachverwendung in Hochdeutsch und Mundart.
– Sprache verstehen geht dem eigenen korrekten Sprechen voraus. Die Lernenden erfahren ausserdem, dass hochdeutsch schreiben nicht unter den gleichen formalen Anforderungen steht wie hochdeutsch sprechen.
– Die Verständigung auf Hochdeutsch im Unterricht hat zum Ziel, die mündliche Ausdrucksfähigkeit zu fördern. Die schriftliche Ausdrucksfähigkeit wird vor allem durch vielfältige Schreibanlässe entwickelt.

Thank you very much. If you don't mind, i will contact you here if I will have some questions. You are very gentle, and an expert in this subject, and your demonstration more valuable than an opinion.
It's not a problem of "believe", because i trust in switzerland law in education matter. But at this point I ask myself why:
Lot of my friend's childrens go back home talking in bernese, and parents, who are in a very good level of German, don't understand them;
Friends of mine born and living in switzerland and have had a medium/high education speak only in bernese and when i try to speak with them in German they tell me about my words and sentence "oh, but this is not swiss, it's hochdeutsch", like if hochdeutsch would be a fremdsprache. The general approach to hochdeutsch is that it is the language of burocracy and foreign language school studies, but not the mother tongue;
Why when i talk to everybody about this my problem, everybody tell me: it's our language and you have to integrate and get accustomed to this and your doughter too.( and how I can blame this??). Bern is PRACTICALLY bilingual.
Why in spielgruppe and kitta and kindergarten they speak to children (even foreign children) in bernese if they know it's not the official language for further education?
Why friends of mine childrens gone back in italy and gone to a German school are asked to make a interview to check the german level, and they find they have a strong swiss dialect?(DIALECT, not simple pronounce)
If the Hochdeutsch would be so strictly used at school, among people and above all educated youth this would be stronger and ruling.
The law can tell everything, but the beaviour and the proudness of the single person about their own country language is too much personal, and teachers are not an exception.
I come from a country where the dialect factor is very strong, but apart from a different pronounce that is normal and is part of a culture of a place, schools where teachers speaks in dialect, using words and whole sentences different from standard, are considered very bad. Moreover, good school don't promote the use of dialect among students reproach them.
I think there's no solution in bern about this, and I can't go on looking arrogant, like I would change a whole language culture of a country, because it's not only a matter of schools, but of the community. And I can't looking for the right school demanding to the heads if teachers speak hochdeutch or where they come from (and as far as I know, I can't choose the school, but depends of where I live and which is assigned from the gemeinde)
Since I won't be in Switzerland for good, like the person i answer with my post to, I gave my general opinion for our situation. i don't want to blame bernese schools and community. And the proof of this is that I meditate to go in the French part of switzerland, just only for the language, having confidence anyway in public swiss school that follow more the standard of an official language, written and spoken too.
To be honest, also spielgruppe law says that they have to promote integration too (and it seems to me that they have economic contribute from the gemeinde), but in my experience they don't do at all, and in language matter above all (that is our main problem), and I'm doing efforts to learn German in any way I can, effort that is good for merely basis of language, but not above, since they speak only dialect.
I'm very open to change my mind, and I would be very happy if all this thinks reported from all this people, very different from culture and origin, are simple paranoia. I would be very happy to realize that this is only my prejudice. If something has changed since 2007, maybe it takes a bit longer to have effect, but will be positive soon. This would make my life (and my wallet) here better.
Thank you again.

Sorry, I forgot to quote you in my previous reply. Obviously that is for you, above all my thanks.

I guess they are as interested in helping you understand what they are saying by speaking high Germany as you are in helping us read what you are trying to say by using punctuation and capitalization in your writings.....

In the German part of Switzerland (and not only in the canton of Bern) locals do speak dialect and never ever High German even on the professional level. They normally just switch over to German when talking to foreigners. Therefore a lot of Swiss don't speak a German without an accent and you can normally recognize us Swiss the moment we open our mouth and speak German.
Teachers and I am talking about kindergarten and primary school teachers speak German and use it in every lesson as I said in my post before. Spielgruppen are not a part of the public educational system in the canton but offered by private organisations or some towns. Therefore you are not forced to send your child in a specific spielgruppe and can choose according to your needs.
I am sorry but you won't find any place in the German part of Switzerland where you could avoid Swiss German unless of course you life in a Expat bubble.

I will live in expat bubble as some other people, like in this forum for example, that live the language and the choice of school as a problem in Bern. Given that learning another language is only an enrichment for a child brain, and for children is easier than for an adult, I think nobody is afraid to introduce their babys or children to a new and useful language (and more than one). Me neither. I do my best to introduce my daughter to English, French and German, give her possibilities I didn't have, but a fourth language, spoken only in a small city, is too much unless I decide to live for ever in Bern (and I don't). You go on talking about accent, but swiss german is properly another language, maybe more than a strong dialect, with different lexicon (otherwise swissgerman-german dictionary wouldn't exist). I just attend this thread giving my personal opinion, with a point of view that can be just heard, useful or not (and that can be arguabl), to person in my similar situation who maybe don't know very clear what is the language situation in Bern, and maybe think that their children will learn a perfect hochdeutsch at school and outside.
If can be useful for people in this forum (not for you of course who are already awake about it) an interesting essay about diglossia in swiss german cantons schools. It's older than 2007, but helps to understand lot of things about linguistic situation.
http://www.sslmit.units.it/crevatin/...ti/Urselli.pdf
It's in italian, but for lot of people can be understood, since italian is one of the confederation language.

I disagree on the fact that swiss German is another language. It's nothing more than a German dialect, a very strong dialect but it's not a different language. There are a few Helvetismen (words only used in Switzerland), and normally, children learn both words for carrot i.e., even though they will never really use the high German word outside school. But all the books they read and most movies they watch will be in high German and therefore it is totally normal for them to learn both.

Teachers will speak and teach high German in school. A few years back, they only spoke it during German, Maths and Natural studies. Now, they are advised to speak German in other subjects as well, and so they do.