Hello all,

We have just moved to the Zurich area from the US (August 2009) luckily my daughter speaks fluent German. So as she is in 6th grade, we have just spoken to her teacher about school for next and the choices available to her.

The teacher reccommends her for a gymi program, however due to my lack of strong German and the teachers shortcomings in English I am unsure as to what I need to do next. It sounds like it is up to the parents to contact the local Gymnasia and pick which ever one would suit best and wait for the exam results?

I am looking for advise from any of you who have been through this and especially if you have done so in the Meilen area as maybe you have suggstions for the most appropriate school.

If it makes any difference for the focus of the school my daughters strong subjects are languages and sciences.

Thanking you for your time,

Les

Just had a look on the net.
Seems like you do not have a Gymi in Meilen.
Here is the website to the local schools - which you probably know. Under "Schulhäuser", it shows you were the schools all are, and I only see a Secondar Schule.

She may have to go into Zurich? This is the closest one I could find. But I suggest you ask your Swiss neighbour about the reputations of the schools, and then contact the Rektor or Sekretariat of that school?

Hi,

The Rämi and HoPro, in the vernacular, are the popular ones for the gold cost but I thought there was one around Zumikon/Küsnacht.

If your teacher is recomending her for Gymi then she needs to be getting a 5.5 in both German and maths in her final zeugniss. The exam consists of a two part German test, grammar and essay and a maths test as well as an aptitude test. The latter will form part of the entry requirements but I am unsure to what percentage it counts. You have to go to a Gymi open-day at which you will get an envelope with either an internet registration number or the forms for postal application - I'd get a move on if I were you, the window of opportunity must be closing around this time. You then apply for the school of your choice. Rämi is sciences, HoPro is languages but Rämi only does an hour maths extra. Basic gymi lasts 2-3 years after which you can go to a school with a real focus. You will get a letter stating whether you have been accepted for the school or assigned to another one (they do joint entry) and where the exam will be held. The kid then does the exam and waits for acceptance or rejection. You need an average of 4.5 If you fall between 4.25 and 4.5 you get a verbal resit. There are contingency plans for illness. German essay counts for a large proportion of the final grade and - as you might have gleaned from the papers - they mark between 3.5 and a 3.8.

The **** really hits the fan when it comes to the probation time - which is a pain in the ass for everyone involved and an exercise in Swiss masturbatory techniques.

Lovely and very aptly put!

Hi everyone,
My daughter will be sitting for the Gymmi, she will be finishing her 2nd year at secondarschule. She would like to do Medicine at some point in the future, but she is also interested in languages. She is undecided between Stadelhoen Gymmi and MNG.
If she does Neusprachliches Gymmi, (she is keen to learn Spanish), does that mean she cannot do medicine.

i would really appreciate any advice on this and promptly as the presentation evening for MNG is tomorrow!!!!

Many Thanks

Joshmo

Hi, i started at MNG this year. I unfortunately had to drop out due to the fact that I didn't quite know enough German but I also wanted to study medicine and the feeling I got from it was that it was a very studious school and the teachers are very friendly. They do work at a fast pace though, however, if she is planning to go into medicine then that should be no problem. You start off with just learning geometry, math and biology in terms of sciences in the first term and physics and chemistry are added later on. I am definitely going back there after I get my German up to standard. I have a place next year and i highly recommend it! MNG is known as one of the best gymnasiums for studying science in Zürich kanton.

If your daughter decides to go to the Neusprachliches Gymi then she can still do medicine. All universities in Switzerland take you for any course if your grades are good enough in the matura, the swiss external examinations at the end, no matter where you studied. The only problem would be keeping up. It would be easier to keep up in medical school if you go to a science specialist school like MNG. Regardless, you must study all the sciences and maths no matter where you are. If you want to study abroad, you must look into it more. There is a chance that universities in places such as England and America will not consider your daughter if she has not gone to a science specialist school.

I hope this helps!

Thanks for replying.
It seems that she would prefer to do the languages route, so she is now looking at Stadelhofen Gymmi. A friend aLso told me that she would then sit an exam called numerus clausus, which if I am right in thinking, that everyone who is interested in doing medicine would do. This is an exam that most students get tutoring with. I can't blame her, I ended up choosing science too early snd really regretted not having done languages!
Do you know if Stadelhofen has a good reputation?
She also likes the fact that she can have some subjects taught wholly in English as well as German.

Any advice gladly appreciated :-)

Joshmo

There is a separate entrance exam for medicine...and it's rigorous.

We know kids going to various Gymi and I haven't heard any negatives. They are streaming out the top students, this sort of school is often referred to where I come from as 'teacher heaven' because the kids virtually learn without needing much teaching, toe the line, and the threat of being kicked out is a big motivator

I suspect you can apply to both, and see how you go with the entrance exams ?

I have a friend also eager to go to Stadelhofen and she said that her brother goes there and thinks it is a very good school. All state gymis are very good in my opinion. The private ones are not so good as they are where people send their children when they have not ot into state gymi because they can afford the fees, so I would avoid them. The teachers all normally have masters in the subjects they are teaching so regardless of which gymi you go to, the teachers really do know what they are talking about. I think most are the same standard it is just that Rämibühl is the most heard of as it has the most options. Stadelhofen is a close second in how much it is known and then Hohe Promenade.

About the English and German bilingual part, I would look into it because I know at MNG it is also offered but not until the 3rd year so I would check if the same applies to Stadelhofen. You may also be interested to know that there is a Languages stream in the Rämibühl Gymi (MNG campus). This may or may not interest you daughter.

It is true that you have an entrance exam for medicine but grades from previous schools are also a big part of it, as in england with the BMAT.

In Gymi, you do have a 6 month trial period where you can be kicked out if you do not keep up your grades (and unfortunately one of my classmates was) but after that you are kept in the school and if you happen to fail end of years then you just repeat the school year. It is a rigorous system but it produces good results and it really doesn't matter what gymi you go to, the standards are the same. The only big factor is what subject specialisms each one offers and which one you want to take.

Freies Gymnasium is private. Iirc it costs about 20K / year.

Hi, my daughter has read that it is possible to do an immersion course where she can do half subjects in German/ English at Stadelhofen Gymmi.
Is there anyone who can advise whether for someone who is mother-tongue english anyway would be a good option or not?
Are there any advantages/disadvantages?
Would be grateful if someone can explain how it works...

There was a thread a while back about this. They don't actively enrol mother-tongue english kids, so unless your child is really 100% at the Gymi level in German, and has all the other selection criteria, it's not a 'soft option' for a kid who is english-dominant.

Rämibühl Realgymnasium Zurich? [experience with?]

Oh, and speaking personally, my daughter's in the first year of our local secondary school (we chose not to apply for Gymnasium at this point as she still has to build her confidence a lot more to compete with the other kids) and she is finding it quite mind-bending to have to learn 'english in German' and 'French in German' - she has a few gaps to fill because she processes everything via English, not German, and that puts her at a disadvantage, although overall her marks are above the class average in every subject, and the teacher knows she is academically more capable, when it comes to the way the tests are delivered, it creates this bias against her.

Her previous French teacher tought English-> French, not German - > French so although her French is good, when she gets exams that are all in German, asking for French words, she's at a huge disadvantage.

It's a really interesting problem!

Swisspea I remember this so vividly. After living in the UK for a few years, I decided to go back to adult school to brush up my German (did O'level) and I found it so hard as I'd learnt German from French - including huge lists of vocab. I found it near on impossible to jump to re-learning but via English- and had to do the inevitable triangle in my head all the time. I did eventually manage to by-pass this, but it took a while.

Hence the reason why it is always better to learn a language totally in the target language. And also why it is brilliant to be bilingual or trilingual from a very early age- so that the brain knows right from the start that 'a table' is just one of so many ways of describing a plank with 4 legs.

I am hoping that at some point she 'jumps' forward when they start teaching French in French ! But I doubt that happens in the secondary school...

In the immersion classes for primary schoolers, from what I have heard, it's proper 'immersion' - that means they don't break to English or whatever to teach the new kids...because they come from all different learning backgrounds.... but obviously that is not how it's done in the mainstream.

Now, if they wrote the test in 100% French, and only French, she'd probably be way ahead of the other kids!

Although you can do medicine coming from a Mod. Lang Bac/Abi - I would NOT recommend it. The entrance exams are very tough, and if you haven't specialised in sciences would be very difficult. At the end of the first year at medical school, they 'cull' a huge percentage, usually those who do not have the necessary level in sciences, so early specialisation is almost essential to succeed.

For example in Lausanne 2010 - 600 in first year to 130 only passing into second so about 2/3rd fail.

I am also applying to stadelhofen this year for the english immersion sciences class. But you must be aware that if you do it this way or not, it is very hard to get into this immersion class simply because they tend to have less classes of immersion. For example, this science immersion class is new as of this year and therefore they only have one class and a lot of people want to get into it. Perhaps in 2013/14, they will have more than one class, but I think they are sticking with one. The languages immersion is the same principle. People with English as their mother tongue to not get priority, but, that said, if your daughter takes the gymmi exam and gets the marks needed to be in the top 60 students for example, if they take 60, then they cannot refuse her a place I don't think and they cannot be bias as there is no English gymmi exam so she is in a fair playing field as its all in german and french.

Swisspea: You can do an all immersion german class in secondary school. I know this as I have one at my school. (Schulhaus Riedtli) But this is only for Kreise 6, I don't know about others. They don't do languages, only german and that is all they speak in and all you focus on. There is the problem that they speak english outside of the lessons but in the lessons there is no english.

I also know that in gymmi they teach french in french so once she gets there it will be no problem.

But i applied last year coming in from England with my german not completely there and i didn't get in. Although, you can apply not through the exams if your daughter is not completely there in German yet. You can email the school and ask if she can get what is called an auditer place. You do not do probezeit, instead you just take the tests at the end of the year when your german is all there to determine whether you stay on or not. This is what I applied for last year, and I got a place at MNG, Rämibühl, but left as I decided to work more on my German, and what I am going to apply again like this this year.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for letting me know :-)
She will probably not bother in that case as her German is good.
Do you also happen to know anything about these new Stellwerk tests that have been introduced?
What exactly are they for and how important are they anyway?
Cheers

Hi to everyone in here!

I would appreciate some advice. My daughter and myself will be joining my husband in mid June in Zürich (after she finishes her 1st class of Lyceum here in Athens, Greece, which is the 10th year of schooling). She is 15,5 and speakes fluently English and Greek, but her German is very basic. As we intend to live in Switzerland indefinately, we would prefer she joins the Swiss schooling system and specifically the Gymnasium (she would like to study Architecture in the future). Can someone give me an idea as to what happens to children, who do not speak fluently the German language at this age? Are there integration classes at her level (I heard that integration applies only for younger children, is that correct?). Thanking you in advance for your kind attention,
Cheers

It is true that for gymnasium, there are no integration classes. there is one for secondary school but if you were to go there for one year, you would be too old to then apply for gymnasium. I am the same age as your daughter and I also live in Zürich and this year, I did half secondary school, half intensive german course, but next year, as I said, she would be too old to go for one year to secondary school and then apply for Gymnasium. However there are also other options. There are many languages schools that offer evening classes twice a week and I know someone who came straight into gymnasium with almost no German and did the evening classes and within a year, she was managing to understand and take part in all of her classes. If you email the gymnasiums you can ask for an 'auditer' place where your daughter is not required to take part in probezeit which is where they see if the students can keep up during the first half year(and you must speak german to pass this). Instead, at the end of the year, when your daughters German is good enough, she takes exams in all of her classes and then they see if she can carry on.

I also recommend that you go for the languages specialism as they are known to give more encouragement and help towards learning German than the other specialisms but it is still very possible to learn German while you are, for example, in the maths and sciences stream.

I do hope this helps. Happy to answer any other questions as I have been in a similar situation.