Hi everyone.

Recently I applied for a job at Philip Morris, figured since there seems to be jobs for someone with a MSc in Biochemistry in my country, I should definatly try at another country.


I applied over 2 weeks ago by mail(through Hays) and last week I had a phone interview, by a very nice man from Hays. Now I know I have everything they need, but of course i can't have false hopes and not apply to other jobs.

My question is: does anyone know how the recruitment process goes? Like how long to get a real Yes\No answer?

Hello

It may be too late, but why not apply directly?

Hays will probably pretend that they work for PMI, but in really they just copy paste adverts and hope to get commissions if you are hired.

I am not sure about PMI's hiring policy but many companies prefer to hire directly to avoid hepty fees.

I really don't know. I mean, the person called-me about 4 times that day(only managed to answer at the 4th time) so that would make me feel "maybe i'm not bad at all).

But the applying directly thing: i think some companys prefer the recruitment companys to have the hardwork of selecting a few good candidates.

Hello from a guy from Porto, Portugal and now Zurich.

After you apply from a Recruitment, you can not appy on your own.

It would not be ethical. So now you know the client.

At least for the same department.

There are strict rules on that.

However, if the company is big you can apply directly for other departments.

The HR (human resources) always tell you if you have already your application or not by a recruiting company.

Of course you can. It is between the agency and the business how they handle that, it has nothing to do with the applicant

"Ethical" and "Philip Morris" are unusual words in the same thread...

Yes...very true. By the way recruitment agencies use methods that are not ethical at all, like publishing fake adverts to build up databases of candidates.

This is exactly what he said on the phone.


Well, i think the only thing to do is to wait.

Philip Morris and Ethic...well, the position includes aiding the study of diseases caused by smoking, so you can't really say they have a lack of ethic in this aspect.


The thing is, I only found out of this position because someone from Hays published it on the Research Gate social network. If it was only on PMI, I (and others) probably wouldn't know about it.

I interviewed with them (phone) one time a few years ago out of curiosity, and when I asked them if being a smoker was "required", they replied they don't discriminate against non smokers (or smokers, for that matter). Hahaha ,classic- I loved it. I decided to stay in the US and go into tax restructurings instead, but I will admit that was the best answer ever

OP, I would get in touch with HR of PMI directly and ask them if they ever received your application. If yes, then all you can do is wait, perhaps inquire again after a week or two if you haven't heard anything. If they haven' got it, then the recruiter is not pushing you and I don' t see why you shouldn't apply directly. Good luck!

I think UKtoSwiss's experience with recruitment companies may well be in reference to the behaviour of many of those in the UK. However, I work through Hays (Schweiz) and have never found them anything other than entirely ethical and professional.

I have worked with Hays before, and in all occasions I had to fill in a questionnaires where I had to state I would not apply directly to the same job with another recruiter or directly to their client.

Regardless, I would not recommend you to apply again if you have already done so. It would be a very quick way to burn your name both with the agency and prospective employer. Not just with Hay/Philip Morris, but in general. CH is a very small country and everybody tends to know each other. If you are with Hays for that particular position, I don't think there is much to do about it. If you cannot find it elsewhere, most likely thing is that Hays has a mandate for it - meaning HR delegated on the agency the recruitment process and will only handle dossier the agency sends them.

On the second part of the question. My personal opinion is that statements like "you have everything the client wants" should be taken as directionally correct. They seem to be in great pressure to provide their client with a number of profiles and they tend to do things with a strong sense of urgency. You may argue if this is right or wrong - but it is just the way things work at the moment. I would suggest you don't get over excited with this. The agency might be doing the same with 5 other individuals.

There is no rule for how long they take before they get back to you. In my experience with Hays, they typically don't bother to let you know the client is not interested in the meeting you. If they do, it can be months after the first contacts were made. You might want to wait another week and then ask your contact person in Hays if she as any news for you. But again, there is not fix rule or protocol.

Well, I'll just have to wait and hope everyone is agains't working at tobacco companies

Don't be surprised if it takes some time with PMI. They were also my first job opportunity to come here, I eventually came a year later with another outfit.

The process did take some time. Hang in there, if it works out it'll be worth it.

PMI seems to be expanding their biology department and Hays seems to be their recruiter of choice. I can't really see an advantage to applying directly after already going via Hays, unless you know the actual hiring manager and not just submitting to HR via the PMI website.

An interview with a recruiter at an agency is a long way from a job offer. Never stop applying until you have a signed contract! Your details will not be the only details Hays sends on to PMI.

I spoke to some people at PMI about your situation and here is what they have to say:

In the over all population of workers at PMI they are less smokers than the average population. This is probably because in the general population less "professionals" tend to smoke. They also get way too many people who want to work for them, so don't hold your breath for people who don't want to work for a tobacco company.

The field that you are looking in is the one that is most likely to get "outsiders". Most all the other positions are filled with insiders even if they are advertised publicly.

If your position is advertised on the corporate site then there is no issue applying on your own, although it won't help you unless you find and impress the hiring manager. But if the position is listed only with an agency (which is not unlikely), that means PMI want the agency to sort through the candidates before they even look at them. All the "good" candidates will get passed through to them. Really the agency wants to put forward good candidates becuase they want to get paid. The not so good ones will be rejected by the agency and the staff at PMI won't bother with them.

My contacts at PMI didn't know Hays specifically.

(my words) Others have given a good impression of Hayes and really, if they are looking at specialized websites for people with your qualifications that could mean that there are not so many candidates that fit the profile. So, (my words again) you could be in a good position.

Boa sorte!

Don't know anything about Hays but can confirm that PMI are notoriously slow when it comes to the recruiting process.

PMI are actively recruiting at the moment to fill some of the posts transferred to Neuchatel or created here due to the closure of the Cologne facilty.

It's worth bearing in mind though that as a scientist going o work for a tobacco company may be a 'one way street'. They pay well to entice people to work for them but once you have worked for a tobacco company it is very difficult to work in academia for example and there are only very few journals who will publish worklinked to tobacco industry (even if it's only a collaboration or funding issue.).

It depends where you are in your career at the moment I would say. If you're young and ambitious and want to persue a career in the research field I would advise you to think very carefully about working for a tobacco company.

PMI were considered one of the top five unethical multinationals last year according to a Swiss research house. But I'm sure their healthcare research is in the public interest. Work wherever you like, but be careful when it comes to claiming ethical practice.

(Ps, I don't expect a multinational to be ethical, but it's not too much to ask the employees to consider.)

I wouldn't want to work for a tobacco company any more than I'd want to earn my pay making munitions in an armaments factory. Ethical or not, I consider these companies to be peddling products that do not serve what I consider to be "in the general good" of humankind. I know people have a choice and I respect that, but I don't have to be a fanboy.

You can imagine that the only reason the tobacco concerns have a big presence in Switzerland is the enormous tax breaks that they get; no, I don't have a source for that, it just seems like a logical assumption to make.

Didn't we used to know them as Nestels or something? What was all that about?