Hello all,
I'm in Malaysia and have an offer from an MNC in Geneva. It's 15000CHF per month but the company says they will have to pay 3000 as taxes and my taxes will be around 3000 too. So my take home would be 9000. Is this a norm where the company needs to pay taxes on your salary too?
In this case, how's 9000CHF for a family of four - we have 2 kids aged 8 and 5.
We come from India and the kids have been studying in a British school here in Malaysia. How expensive are international schools in Geneva? What about local schools, the fees, the curriculum, are they English-based or bi lingual?
Would you recommend international or local school to someone with our background.
Anyone here from Asia and can compare the life in Geneva and an Asian city like Singapore, HK or Kuala Lumpur?

Thanks in advance.

It was probably either misexplained to you or you misunderstood. The company will pay all taxes for you, and you will have to pay health insurance. 9'000 take home over 15'000 is about right.
It all depends on your preferred lifestyle. There are families that get by on much much less so it must be doable.

International schools are about 20k CHF a year per child. Local schools are free (that's what taxes are for). English-based? Just in case, the national language in Switzerland is not english. In Geneva, that would be french.

A lot more sedate.

Thanks Shorrick.
They want me to join asap, ie by the end of Oct. And I haven't even received my employment letter. How long does the permit take for non-EU citizens or for that matter anyone?
Also, they mentioned in the beginning that they would take me on for 3 months and see how it goes. And ultimately make me permanent. I politely denied as I have kids who would miss school for those months in that case.

Is it common for companies to get people on for a 3 months trial? To me it sounds risky as I will be crossing oceans with my family.

One to two months when lucky.

They are probably referring to the three month trial period which is standard to any long-term contract?

Hi Redrooster,

Here are my two cents.

I think you have some confusion about the taxes because I think 6k on 15K gross is on higher side. Also worth mentioning if it is a contract or permanent job because for a perm, 15 is a good salary (though depends on experience, qualifications and what do you do eg. IT, Finance etc) but for a contract it is not very lucrative.

For schooling English is not the medium of teaching (at least in Zurich) so you might want to consider private bi lingual / english schools and as Shorrick mentioned they could be anywhere between 1800 to 2400 a month.

Still in the 9k cash you can manage very good standard of living for that kind of money but if you decide to send your kids to Private school you are not left with much.

If you have more queries feel free and good luck

Notice he will work in the Socialist Republic of Geneva, where taxes are roughly twice those in Zurich.

Thank you for the replies.
Yes, international schools are expensive, nothing less than 1200k a month. So there go 2400 out of the 9000.
I'm a little confused about the health insurance / taxes on the 12000 (after the company deducts 'taxes' out of 15000). Is that just health insurance or pension (not sure if I'm entitled as a non-EU citizen) or other things as well?

As a non-EU citizen, is it advisable to start working after the company has applied for the permit and you have not received it yet?

Also, would anyone recommend sending kids to a local school if they dont speak French?
Thanks.

Hmm, well turn the question around and ask yourself would you be willing to work in an office environment where the main language was a language you yourself did not speak nor understand?

However, I notice your kids are aged 8 and 5, so you might just about get away with sending them to a French speaking school, especially the 5 year old.

Our 3 year old goes to daycare twice a week where they speak English and Swiss German to her and she is coming along fine(probably already knows more German than Mum & Dad!!)

At the end of the day, the decision is yours.....

I have no direct experience of this, but I think most of the people on this forum would tend to agree with the idea of sending your kids to a local (French) school. Kids this age will pick up the language probably within six months and it will really help them integrate in the society where you are living.

My 5-year son has just started in a private French-speaking school (not being French speaker at all) and he seems to be doing very well, after few weeks he has no trauma and has picked the basis of the language. If you try to negotiate with your employer to pay all/part of the schooling fees, that would be great. Depending on your level that is an acceptable request around here. Still, 9K in your pocket should allow you to live in Geneva (you won't starve, but obviously depending on your life style). My two cents.

Once again. You being non-EU, all deductions save for health insurance will be taken care of by your employer. That is tax (about 25% or thereabouts for your income OTOH); state pension and invalidity insurance (6.5%); unemployment insurance (1%); maternity insurance (ummm... don't remember how much) and private pension (age dependent, so cannot tell you how much - ballpark 10% for the agegroup I estimate you to fit in).

Health insurance will be in the region of 600CHF for two adults per month - kids, I don't reallly know yet...

Hi,
We are in a some what similar situation( originally from India also). Moved to Geneva from Singapore. We have two kids though smaller than yours (which will make life easier for you).
Husband has been here around a year and me for 6 months. Going is still tough, I guess will take a year atleast to settle down. It is a big culture shock to move from Asia to Europe. Biggest being the language barrier and second the life style.
No more maids/ house help, late nights out and shopping on sundays or till 10 in the night. You have to do everything during week days in office hours. It is very difficult to get used to this.
As far as money goes your salary should give you a decent life style though not a five star one.

International schools cost between 18-20K a year other than transport and lunches/ kid. try and negotiate for an education allowance from your company. A lot of my friends companies pay for childrens education.

Health insurance for the 4 of you could be between 900-1100 CHF depending on the scheme.
Housing another 2.5-3k
Taxes would be around 23-25% but bonus is also taxable.
you get 200chf per kid for child allowance. Helps me buy diapers in my case
Other major costs are for winter clothing, language courses ( unless your company gives you some benefits) and moving.

Hope you have decent relocation allowance and shipping benefits. Advise you to buy all your furniture, groceries/ spices (specially if u are vegetarian) and even toiletries from there and ship them if you have a container to ship it. Believe me I brought enough stuff to last me atleast 6 months.It may not take away the eventual pain of the expense of this place but atleast gives you time to absorb the shock of it. And initially there are a lot of other expenses as well.
I can give you a whole lot of details on schools, insurance etc. in Geneva. feel free to contact me or PM me if you need to know anything more.
Cheers

Hi,
We are in a some what similar situation( originally from India also). Moved to Geneva from Singapore. We have two kids though smaller than yours (which will make life easier for you).
Husband has been here around a year and me for 6 months. Going is still tough, I guess will take a year atleast to settle down. It is a big culture shock to move from Asia to Europe. Biggest being the language barrier and second the life style.
No more maids/ house help, late nights out and shopping on sundays or till 10 in the night. You have to do everything during week days in office hours. It is very difficult to get used to this.
As far as money goes your salary should give you a decent life style though not a five star one.

International schools cost between 18-20K a year other than transport and lunches/ kid. try and negotiate for an education allowance from your company. A lot of my friends companies pay for childrens education.

Health insurance for the 4 of you could be between 900-1100 CHF depending on the scheme.
Housing another 2.5-3k
Taxes would be around 23-25% but bonus is also taxable.
you get 200chf per kid for child allowance. Helps me buy diapers in my case
Other major costs are for winter clothing, language courses ( unless your company gives you some benefits) and moving.

Hope you have decent relocation allowance and shipping benefits. Advise you to buy all your furniture, groceries/ spices (specially if u are vegetarian) and even toiletries from there and ship them if you have a container to ship it. Believe me I brought enough stuff to last me atleast 6 months.It may not take away the eventual pain of the expense of this place but atleast gives you time to absorb the shock of it. And initially there are a lot of other expenses as well.
I can give you a whole lot of details on schools, insurance etc. in Geneva. feel free to contact me or PM me if you need to know anything more.
Cheers

Thanks everyone for their valuable advice.

I just chanced upon something which has puzzled me all over again about whether we will manage in 9000CHF per month. I know all of you say 'yes'. But take a look at what's here.

Average cost of living for a family of four persons, (two adults, two children), the net income is estimated between CHF 7'000.-- (a modest lifestyle) and around CHF 9'000.-- per month.
An example of how it's broken down for an income of CHF 9'000.-- Fixed charges not including rent Taxes (the internationals are exempt from paying communal, district and federal taxes)
CHF 1500.- Sickness insurance/accident basic insurance
CHF 520.- House insurance/responsibility civil
CHF 50.- Telephone/radio/TV (without mobile, and internet))
CHF 150.- Electricity/gas
CHF 70.- Transport costs (season tickets)
CHF 140.- Newspapers/periodicals/subscriptions
CHF 50.- Total : CHF 2480.- Household Food / drink
CHF 1150.- Other expenses like cleaning products, etc.
CHF 270.- Total : CHF 1420.- Personal expenses / Pocket money Women
clothes/shoes
CHF 180.- hairdresser/hobby/courses and other
CHF 220.- Men
Clothes / shoes
CHF 180.- Barber/hobby/courses and other
CHF 220.- Children
Clothes / shoes
CHF 140.- Pocket money
CHF 30.- Total : CHF 970.- Miscellaneous expenses Doctors
CHF 140.- Presents/donations
CHF 100.- Collective hobbies/schools
CHF 180.- Unforeseen acquisitions
CHF 200.- Total : CHF 620.- What is left over for Rent/car/further education/holidays/savings CHF 3510.- Total : CHF 9000.- Source : Arbeitsgemeinschaft Schweizerischer Budgetberatungsstellen, Mai 1999 Source information confirmed au 1.05.2000 Restaurants
Eating out (speciality of the day, drink, coffee)
CHF 25.- The price of a Big Mac in Geneva
CHF 5.90 Miscellaneous
Car (new limousine)
CHF 35'000.- Computer (screen, keyboard, hard disc, printer)
CHF 2'500.- State school up to age of obligatory schooling
after which around CHF 500.- per semester per child.) CHF 0.- Private school
CHF 15'000.-/year
For more information concerning the cost of living, please visit the following web site : International Comparisons
Provisional budget for a mission imprimer


Any State wishing to set-up a Permanent Mission in Geneva undoubtedly asks themselves the question of how much is it going to cost.
To be able to answer this question, the Geneva Welcome Centre has established a rough budget where the figures are based on the actual market and takes into account the specific needs of missions. These figures give a general guide, in Swiss Francs of the costs in Geneva. Concerning the premises, the figures given concern the most popular places being sought after.
Premises to rent Offices ( = 200 m2)= CHF 4'000.- to CHF 7'000.- / monthApartment(4-4,5, 2 bedrooms)= CHF 2'000.- to CHF 4'000.-/ monthLiving accommodation (house corresponding to the needs of a permanent representative)= CHF 7'000.- to CHF 20'000.-/ monthParking (1 place) = CHF 150.- to CHF 300.- / month
N.B. : When renting property, a guarantee is usually requested, the maximum amount could be three month's rent for living accommodation.Property to sell Offices= CHF 2'000.- to CHF 4'000.- / m2Living accommodation (house, 4-4,5 rooms, 2 bedrooms)= CHF 500'000.- to CHF 1'000'000.-Apartment (4-4,5 rooms, 2 bedrooms)= CHF 300'000.- to CHF 500'000.- Monthly charges (water, electricity, gas, household insurance, etc.)= CHF 300.- to CHF 400.- / moonth Personnel Local secretary, bilingual= from CHF 4'600.-/monthDriver= from CHF 4'130.-/month (min.salary)Domestic help (board and lodging & exempt from taxes = from CHF 2'500.-/month(cash in hand)
These figures exclude the obligatory social insurance's and others in Switzerland, of which the cost is (-25% of a gross salary).These are paid equally by the employer and employee (not the case for sickness insurance which is paid by the employee) The conditions for exemption by Missions to the legislation on social security are ruled by a series of directives and circular letters sent out by the Swiss Permanent Mission to international organisations, +41 22/ 749 24 24 .
See also :
www.geneva.ch/f/comparisons.htm
www.statistik.admin.ch

MiscellaneousCar (limousine new )= CHF 35'000.-Computer (screen + keyboard + hard disc + printer)= CHF 2'500.-Swiss State school
(up to the end of obligatory schooling, after that, you should count around CHF 500.- per semester and per child.)= CHF 0.-Private school= CHF 15'000.- / yearRestaurant (speciality of the day, drink, coffee)= CHF 25.-
(Cf. Cost of living)

Sorry, the text went all over the place when i pasted it.

Umm... so the question is? 3'500 CHF in "left-overs" ain't too shabby.

äähm, surely you jest?! Unless they use Kobe beef for the burgers...

CHF 25.- The price of a Big Mac in Geneva
You're kidding me right? I went to maccy d's in basel (might add first time in over 3 months) and got a meal deal for 11-12 francs??

Agree, the 3510 is for rent. Even if the rent is say 2000. Not much to be left with at 1500.
I did notice the taxes are 1500 when they are giving a breakdown of a net income. I wonder how that works.

It's because there are extra line breaks in the text. You should read "Eating out, CHF 25".